Stax Sigma Low Bais and Stax Sigma Pros

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif SR-007... They have this laid back sound which very engaging at the same time, the rock ability of the ESP/950 and while a smaller soundstage then the Sigma, not at all less impressive. C'mon... you know you want to...

What drives me nuts when you post that stuff is that we can't get the SR--07 Mk1, and you and everyone else says it is better than the Mk2. I am starting to freaking HATE looking for OOP headphones anymore.

You can make up for the error of your ways by selling me an inexpensive pair of SR-007 pads to put on my soon to be Smegma Pro (GP drivers/headband/cable).

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now that makes things very interesting for me Does NC sound almost like NS?

Very similar though the drivers aren't exactly the same. Same relaxed nature but it's been too long since I've compared them for any clear comparisons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh great, I am in the company of Wes "HD600 lover" Phillips Oh Boy. I take it all back and anyhow I like my Sigma and ESP950 the best

If that's not a reason to disown the LNS I don't know what is....

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif What drives me nuts when you post that stuff is that we can't get the SR--07 Mk1, and you and everyone else says it is better than the Mk2. I am starting to freaking HATE looking for OOP headphones anymore. You can make up for the error of your ways by selling me an inexpensive pair of SR-007 pads to put on my soon to be Smegma Pro (GP drivers/headband/cable).

It's not like I just started to say that the Mk1 was the best there is...

I am working on the A/Mk2 problem but I really need a second Mk1 to use as a reference point. Anybody have a SR-007BL they want to sell me...

Btw... no pads for you!!!!

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif If that's not a reason to disown the LNS I don't know what is....

Haha. By the way how thick is the diaphragm on LNS? Is it the same as SR-404 or different? I could never find a definitive answer.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haha. By the way how thick is the diaphragm on LNS? Is it the same as SR-404 or different? I could never find a definitive answer.

I have no idea as I've never been able to get a LNS instructions manual and all the reviews from the era are worthless. The drivers is very similar to the SR-404 but the 1.35um material was specially made for the SR-007 so 1.5um would seem more likely.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no idea as I've never been able to get a LNS instructions manual and all the reviews from the era are worthless. The drivers is very similar to the SR-404 but the 1.35um material was specially made for the SR-007 so 1.5um would seem more likely.

Were original SR-Omega drivers 1.5um or 1um?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Were original SR-Omega drivers 1.5um or 1um?

1.5um so that's my reasoning. It's been a long time since Stax realized that thinner isn't better and 1um is just the road to issues that are hard or even impossible to fix. While the diaphragm should be very light it should also have some mass so it doesn't oscillate if not under extreme tension i.e. like the Sennheiser HE's.

 

[Faust2D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1.5um so that's my reasoning. It's been a long time since Stax realized that thinner isn't better and 1um is just the road to issues that are hard or even impossible to fix. While the diaphragm should be very light it should also have some mass so it doesn't oscillate if not under extreme tension i.e. like the Sennheiser HE's.

Interesting, I was thinking the same. That might explain the meatier sound of LNS. They have this very seductive, to me, mids and very polite signature without sacrificing the bass. SR-303 are more on bright side and Lambda is very mids centered with less extension. One thing that gets me is how minor the differences are, they are there and very distinguishable but all Lambda frames sound very similar to me except maybe Lambda Pro and to lesser extend original Signature. Same driver in a Sigma frame sounds just completely different. Very educational experience for me.

Lambda Pro based on short audition is the only Lambda with this strangely colored and distant mids. Did you ever hear of someone replacing Sigma drivers with Lambda Pro drivers? That should result in a fairly flat headphones because it looks like Sigma frame is emphasizing the upper bass and lower mids and Lambda Pro has this recessed mids character.

Now the real torture would be deciding what I am keeping and what stays. I just can't see the point of having so many Lambdas around, well it's cool to compare them but it's difficult to choose what to choose what to listen to. I am thinking that the real test would be when I will get my new GU50 amp thingy in here. Oh the torturous wait.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting, I was thinking the same. That might explain the meatier sound of LNS. They have this very seductive, to me, mids and very polite signature without sacrificing the bass. SR-303 are more on bright side and Lambda is very mids centered with less extension. One thing that gets me is how minor the differences are, they are there and very distinguishable but all Lambda frames sound very similar to me except maybe Lambda Pro and to lesser extend original Signature. Same driver in a Sigma frame sounds just completely different. Very educational experience for me. Lambda Pro based on short audition is the only Lambda with this strangely colored and distant mids. Did you ever hear of someone replacing Sigma drivers with Lambda Pro drivers? That should result in a fairly flat headphones because it looks like Sigma frame is emphasizing the upper bass and lower mids and Lambda Pro has this recessed mids character. Now the real torture would be deciding what I am keeping and what stays. I just can't see the point of having so many Lambdas around, well it's cool to compare them but it's difficult to choose what to choose what to listen to. I am thinking that the real test would be when I will get my new GU50 amp thingy in here. Oh the torturous wait.

The Lambdas are all very similar and that's why I sold mine. No sense to keep 10 headphones which all sound roughly the same.

The recessed midrange of the Lambda Pro is very strange indeed and why I could never like them. They could prove to be good in a Sigma housing but I've never heard about it being done and Stax was very unlikely to do it.

Btw. Any news about the GU50 project...? Just PM me if it's something you want to keep off the boards.

 

[John Buchanan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no idea as I've never been able to get a LNS instructions manual and all the reviews from the era are worthless. The drivers is very similar to the SR-404 but the 1.35um material was specially made for the SR-007 so 1.5um would seem more likely.

Feel free to PM me if you are interested in this.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Buchanan /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're not alone - gimme your hands.......sorry! Wes Phillips liked the LNS better than the Signatures and the 404 -he did 2 reviews - one in Stereophile Stereophile: Stax Lambda Nova Signature electrostatic ear-speaker and the other in onhifi onhifi.com -- Hot Product Archives -- Stax SRS-4040 Signature System II

I read the Phillips onhifi review before and was struck by his discussion of the rare ripple effect on the 404, mainly because it seems that no-one else has ever heard it. I wonder if it was really an anomoly in the phones as he thinks, or a quirk in the rest of his system. I have certainly never heard such a thing after almost 10 years of listening.

Returning to the Sigmas, one of the features of their operation which almost no-one seems to see as significant is that they are one of maybe only 2 phones that do not shoot their sound directly to the ear-drum. All of their signal will be bounced off the pinna and reflected down the ear canal. Thus they recreate the effect of natural sounds locate ahead of the listener when heard through the ears. All other phones recreate the effect of sound sources coming from the side, since this is the only way you will normally hear sounds shot down the ear canal.

In this respect the Sma is in a class of its own, probably why Stax started using the term "ear-speaker."

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Returning to the Sigmas, one of the features of their operation which almost no-one seems to see as significant is that they are one of maybe only 2 phones that do not shoot their sound directly to the ear-drum. All of their signal will be bounced off the pinna and reflected down the ear canal. Thus they recreate the effect of natural sounds locate ahead of the listener when heard through the ears. All other phones recreate the effect of sound sources coming from the side, since this is the only way you will normally hear sounds shot down the ear canal. In this respect the Sma is in a class of its own, probably why Stax started using the term "ear-speaker."

They were using the name "ear-speaker" since at least the SR-3 if not before so it has nothing to do with the Sigma. That doesn't mean that the Sigma design isn't unique and one of the reasons why we love them but Stax later figured out that they could get the same effect (with more control) by using contoured earpads and changing the angle. While a SR-Omega doesn't have a soundstage quite as big, it is far more controlled and composed. The Sigma is wasting a lot of acoustical energy for that soundstage so the design is too far "out there" really...

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif They were using the name "ear-speaker" since at least the SR-3 if not before so it has nothing to do with the Sigma. That doesn't mean that the Sigma design isn't unique and one of the reasons why we love them but Stax later figured out that they could get the same effect (with more control) by using contoured earpads and changing the angle. While a SR-Omega doesn't have a soundstage quite as big, it is far more controlled and composed. The Sigma is wasting a lot of acoustical energy for that soundstage so the design is too far "out there" really...

Surely this is not the same. The Omega transducers still sit right outside the ear canal, as opposed to in front, as for the Sigma. I assume there is still a direct signal from the Omega into the ear canal. There is none for the Sigma.

 

[John Buchanan]

My take on the Sigma was that it was trying to replicate sound bouncing off room items after being transmitted from a source aimed at the front of each ear rather than perpendicular to that and firing straight down the canal - ie the difference between normal listening to stereo speakers and having them aimed directly into your ear canals. It would have been more interesting if they had been a sealed design rather than an open design with front to back cancellation only limited by the damping material inside the ear cushions (which doubly serves a reflecting purpose). These are really like putting a small open plan room on each ear LOL.
Has anyone else tried sitting between planar speakers (ie moving your seat forward until your head in the same plane as the two speakers. Apart from some obvious treble loss, they sound very good (I did this with Magneplanar Timpani 1Ds many years ago and heard a huge increase in depth with an old vinyl copy of "Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall").

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow /img/forum/go_quote.gif Surely this is not the same. The Omega transducers still sit right outside the ear canal, as opposed to in front, as for the Sigma. I assume there is still a direct signal from the Omega into the ear canal. There is none for the Sigma.

They are angled over the ears just like a Lambda. What I was getting at is that after developing the Sigma, Stax realized that while perpendicular transducers (close enough at about 80°) were a great idea they could get a lot of the benefits with an angled earpad and setting the drivers back a bit but with ample bass and treble response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Buchanan /img/forum/go_quote.gif My take on the Sigma was that it was trying to replicate sound bouncing off room items after being transmitted from a source aimed at the front of each ear rather than perpendicular to that and firing straight down the canal - ie the difference between normal listening to stereo speakers and having them aimed directly into your ear canals. It would have been more interesting if they had been a sealed design rather than an open design with front to back cancellation only limited by the damping material inside the ear cushions (which doubly serves a reflecting purpose). These are really like putting a small open plan room on each ear LOL. Has anyone else tried sitting between planar speakers (ie moving your seat forward until your head in the same plane as the two speakers. Apart from some obvious treble loss, they sound very good (I did this with Magneplanar Timpani 1Ds many years ago and heard a huge increase in depth with an old vinyl copy of "Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall").

That's exactly what they were trying to achieve. One thing to note is that the drivers in the Sigma are wired out of phase and the housing was meant to reverse it. I'd like to see a new Sigma based on the 4070 housing and design as it could sound bloody great with the much better drivers and rugged housing.

 

[John Buchanan]

I presume "wired out of phase" means that they were both wired with the same inverted absolute phase, which considering that they are firing from the opposite side of the transducer (compared with the Lambda), the two inversions should cancel. I'm kinda hoping that they didn't wire them out of phase with each other!!