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Star Trek vs. Star Wars
Oct 15, 2008 at 4:47 AM Post #32 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I quite agree. And if my avatar wasn't an indication, I'd have to firmly plant Firefly/Serenity above them all.



Now would that place in hell be located anywhere near the 'special hell' reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater?


I've not even heard of Firefly or Serenity. Can you give me a brief synopsis but not a spoiling one. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 4:48 AM Post #33 of 151
It is the fantasy aspect of SW that makes it stomach-able, whereas ST (what I've seen of the various TV shows) tries too hard to be serious. Whereas SW pokes fun at itself with characters like C3PO or Jar-Jar, I get the impression that ST would take offense to being made fun of. Or to put it another way, I laugh WITH the SW characters, and AT the ST characters.

I completely agree that SW is not "serious" science fiction, and much more like Lord of the Rings with lasers and robots. However, both are entertaining variations on a theme, which require the complete suspension of disbelief. Whereas ST wants you to honestly envision future humans living in such a way, or to not completely suspend disbelief. And as such it fails on me.

By all means, correct me if I have a incomplete or inaccurate view of ST.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 4:50 AM Post #34 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Now the real test is tossing in Babylon 5, which I would rank just behind DS9 in its best seasons. Fabulous show unfortunately shortened due to network/budget, etc. The space fights are more realistic than both Trek and Wars, and the storyline is one of the best. The rise and fall of Londo is most dramatic, but there are many other elements that make this one of the best sci-fi shows out there.


Agreed. I would have brought Babylon 5 up if you hadn't.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 4:52 AM Post #35 of 151
Iron Dreamer that is essentially correct. I suppose I am gullible in hoping our future can be even remotely as prosperous as Star Trek depicts. I often wish to have been born into a period of relative peace with that level of technology as exists on Earth in the Star Trek universe. The freedom of artists and the methods they must be able to make use of inspires me to better myself.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 4:56 AM Post #37 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
By all means, correct me if I have a incomplete or inaccurate view of ST.


Your view of ST is not completely inaccurate, but exemplifies precisely why both ST and SW have very different (if not somewhat shared) fan bases. To enjoy ST to its fullest does, to some degree, require some interest in the real theoretical values the Trek franchise bases its stories upon.

[EDIT] Missing Maxvla's previous post, let me say that the prosperity (and more specifically DOMINANCE) of the human race in the face of other like-minded and likewise outfitted species is indeed preposterous in many ways. If we are to take and run with the idea of sentient life outside our own, so much more could be imagined. But within the confines of a series dedicated to the idea of pushing scientific theory and moral consequences to their unknown limits, while still maintaining their human element (AKA marketability), I would say that the Star Trek family of franchises has done very well.

[EDIT 2] Damn, Ed... if I only had a few bucks for that Stello!
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:04 AM Post #38 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've not even heard of Firefly or Serenity. Can you give me a brief synopsis but not a spoiling one. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.


Firefly takes place in a future where Earth could no longer sustain its population so people spread out to another galaxy full of planets. Many of the planets were terraformed to make them capable of sustaining life but basically, you have a grouping of planets that have been fully terraformed and industrialized which form the Central Alliance and the Outer planets where living conditions are still harsh (Think 1800's Westerns). The Alliance waged a battle against the Independents who were against one consolidated government which culminated into a heavy loss at the Battle of Serenity Valley. The series takes place in the aftermath and the story follows the ship Serenity and its crew, led by an Independent named Malcolm Reynolds in an effort to live out their lives free of the Alliance. The Alliance is basically the result of the US and China being the only remaining superpowers left so be prepared to hear a lot of Chinese thrown around during the series. The series was canceled after 14 eps. by Fox, but is is a very engaging show worth watching at least once. Serenity is also the name of the movie that takes place after the series ended, and is also very much worth watching.

Overall ranking (of complete series including all their spin-offs and movies) for me would end up as:

Firefly-->Stargate-->Star Trek-->Star Wars (The original trilogy of Star Wars may be strong, but it is not strong enough to keep Star Wars above Star Trek when you factor in the far weaker second trilogy.)
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:07 AM Post #39 of 151
trekmovieswr2.jpg


Quick pic of my Trek movies, but mostly for the box set of VHS TOS movies, the 6th being the best Trek movie period. Got the box set for Christmas near my 9th birthday. Cost a grand total of $60 dollars back in the day (1991). All of the TOS vhs are still encased in the original plastic wrap. At the age of 9 I had the foresight to take a razor blade and carefully cut out only the very bottom of the wrapping to remove the tapes.

edit: near 9th bday not on. not born on christmas
redface.gif
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:12 AM Post #41 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Your view of ST is not completely inaccurate, but exemplifies precisely why both ST and SW have very different (if not somewhat shared) fan bases. To enjoy ST to its fullest does, to some degree, require some interest in the real theoretical values the Trek franchise bases its stories upon.

[EDIT] Missing Maxvla's previous post, let me say that the prosperity (and more specifically DOMINANCE) of the human race in the face of other like-minded and likewise outfitted species is indeed preposterous in many ways. If we are to take and run with the idea of sentient life outside our own, so much more could be imagined. But within the confines of a series dedicated to the idea of pushing scientific theory and moral consequences to their unknown limits, while still maintaining their human element (AKA marketability), I would say that the Star Trek family of franchises has done very well.

[EDIT 2] Damn, Ed... if I only had a few bucks for that Stello!


You are correct about it being human centric, but that is more a casting flaw that is relatively unavoidable. Other series managed to be less humanoid centric (see Babylon 5), but humanoids still dominate. I am able to see past it because I know it's unavoidable. Perhaps CG of today or the future can generate lifelike non humanoids, but I haven't seen any truly good ones yet.
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:17 AM Post #42 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Firefly takes place in a future where Earth could no longer sustain its population so people spread out to another galaxy full of planets. Many of the planets were terraformed to make them capable of sustaining life but basically, you have a grouping of planets that have been fully terraformed and industrialized which form the Central Alliance and the Outer planets where living conditions are still harsh (Think 1800's Westerns). The Alliance waged a battle against the Independents who were against one consolidated government which culminated into a heavy loss at the Battle of Serenity Valley. The series takes place in the aftermath and the story follows the ship Serenity and its crew, led by an Independent named Malcolm Reynolds in an effort to live out their lives free of the Alliance. The Alliance is basically the result of the US and China being the only remaining superpowers left so be prepared to hear a lot of Chinese thrown around during the series. The series was canceled after 14 eps. by Fox, but is is a very engaging show worth watching at least once. Serenity is also the name of the movie that takes place after the series ended, and is also very much worth watching.

Overall ranking (of complete series including all their spin-offs and movies) for me would end up as:

Firefly-->Stargate-->Star Trek-->Star Wars (The original trilogy of Star Wars may be strong, but it is not strong enough to keep Star Wars above Star Trek when you factor in the far weaker second trilogy.)


Thanks, I'll check it out. Is the story completed even though it was cancelled? I assume the movie ties up the loose ends?
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:21 AM Post #43 of 151
I would also like to see more interesting developments in the realm of non-humanoid lifeforms in the future. Agreeing that this would have been something of a technical limitation in the past (original ST series being a prime example, good lord!), it is not otherwise something that should limit current productions.

But in that regard, again, I'd like to put Star Trek firmly ahead of Star Wars, since there have been episodes and, in some cases, mini-series dedicated to the unknown-yet-sentient. This is without even speaking of the numerous instances that have played with other conundrums such as time-space and energy-as-sentient.

[EDIT] I was also a huge fan of Firefly and was really, REALLY disappointed to see it go. I must say, however, that, while it probably grazed the foundations of Science Fiction a little more than Star Wars did, it really never developed beyond a space western, IMO...
 
Oct 15, 2008 at 5:23 AM Post #44 of 151
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks, I'll check it out. Is the story completed even though it was cancelled? I assume the movie ties up the loose ends?


I personally thought the story was rather compelling and would have loved to see more (Stupid Fox canceling a perfectly good show!) Unfortunately, while the movie does tie up a couple of loose ends, it introduces just as many new questions.
 
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