[jordanross]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotta be Star Trek. Star Wars just doesn't hold a candle to it, especially TNG.

Seconded.

They are both incredible, the thing is Star Trek covers so much more since there is more content (Obviously seeing as there are more episodes than movies)

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can a true geek not love both?.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

 

[GlendaleViper]

And this is a moral crisis of utmost importance! Stow your inhibitions and let those colours shine!

[EDIT] I see Star Wars is winning in the polls. I wonder if a more provocative poll would be Space Fantasy vs. Science Fiction? I know a number of Star Wars fans who aren't really into SF at all...

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Note that Deep Space Nine makes no appearance on my list, if only because I have only seen 3-4 eps and haven't had the chance to watch the entire series in depth.

DS9 really picks up about halfway through with the Dominion war. I really enjoyed the last half of DS9 and I'm sure you will also.

series order for me is:

TNG = TOS > DS9 >>>>> VOY > ENT

As corny as many of the TOS episodes were they also had the most thought provoking episodes also. One of my favorites is "A Taste of Armageddon" where Kirk forces the 2 planets in a computer simulated war to face the true fear of war.

VOY and ENT while sometimes interesting, really have far too much fan service with Seven and T'Pol bearing far too much. I really liked the feel of the ENT ship and chemistry (sans the Tucker/T'Pol thing) of the cast, but until the last season the stories were just garbage. Xindi? Who cares? I was hoping to FINALLY see the early Earth-Romulan war.

As you might guess I voted Trek, and while I enjoy Star Wars and have even read many books based on the Star Wars universe, I have easily read more and watched more Trek than may be healthy

It may be a soap opera, but at least in the beginning it was meant to expand your mind beyond the simple shows of the period. In my opinion though it didn't start to seem soap opera-ish til midway through TNG. TOS is almost completely free of it. There is just a slight sheen from the polish of TNG that feels like a soap opera. The first few seasons were slightly rougher, then the polish took hold and people began the hater attitude with the series that I simply cannot understand.

To the poster who said Star Wars wasn't sci-fi, how do you figure that?

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxvla /img/forum/go_quote.gif To the poster who said Star Wars wasn't sci-fi, how do you figure that?

That was me (the OP) and I stand by it vehemently. Star Wars is an epic fantasy in space. It is most DEFINITELY NOT science fiction. SF is a genre based in the concepts of scientific theory, examined in fictional ways. There was nothing in Star Wars that actually examined such a thing. If you replace the technology in those films with traditional weaponry, etc., you have a classical fantasy.

 

[synaesthetic]

Star Wars isn't science fiction in the strict Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke sense of the word.

It's what could be called "science fantasy," as it has a great many elements of a fantasy epic, albeit set in a far-future setting.

 

[tim359]

Just curious, are there many Star Trek novels? I've seen a bunch of (and read a few) Star Wars novels, but not Star Trek, though I imagine that there are a good number around.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me, Star Trek is THE place to get your Carl Sagan fix - the show that actually touched upon the realms of science in such a way that dramatized theories. But Star Wars has that epic fantasy going for it which puts it up against heavyweights like The Lord of the Rings trilogy. If I were to rank them, it would go something like: Star Trek: TNG > Star Trek > Star Wars (Original Trilogy) > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Voyager > Enterprise > Star Wars (New Trilogy) > Star Trek DS9 This is a little more than skewed, since I haven't given the novels or comics of either series any of my time whatsoever, but looking at it, should give you a good idea of where I stand when it comes to TRUE SF (IMO) vs. a space fantasy. Either way, I know we're going to have lovers of BOTH series here, and that's really what makes it more interesting (again IMO) compared to most somewhat-related space dramas. Incidentally, if we were to plop the Stargate series into the mix, SG-1 finds itself FIRMLY in spot #2.

I can see where you are going with Star Wars being fantasy, but really it is sci-fi, but with a heavy dose of fantasy.

I really have to question you on your placement of DS9 behind VOY and ENT. Clearly VOY and ENT are the scum of Paramount. VOY started out so well, then caved halfway in and even the ending was a complete hackjob. Compare the ending of VOY to DS9 and it really is no contest whatsoever. ENT was shaky early then trashed itself then came back with a nearly redeeming season at the end.

I enjoyed the original movie of Stargate, but the series I simply cannot watch. I would easily move Star Wars ahead of SG:1.

Overall the greatest reason that Star Trek is by far the greatest of the genre is because it deals DIRECTLY with the science of space and the related issues. As you pointed out Star Wars is a space fantasy, and while I am not very informed about Stargate I don't see the series being too much more science based than the movie and first few episodes I saw of SG:1. The movie was basically spinning the circles of markings in the right order and walking through the gate. Not much science there.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif That was me (the OP) and I stand by it vehemently. Star Wars is an epic fantasy in space. It is most DEFINITELY NOT science fiction. SF is a genre based in the concepts of scientific theory, examined in fictional ways. There was nothing in Star Wars that actually examined such a thing. If you replace the technology in those films with traditional weaponry, etc., you have a classical fantasy.

Point taken. I can accept that.

I still consider it sci-fi because the scope of the story requires it to be in space, which requires scientific knowledge, which is at our present, fiction.

You can't have Death Star type (plot) impact with current weaponry, even nukes pale in comparison. And imagine the chase by the Star Destroyer of the Millennium Falcon through the asteroid field as a carrier or battleship chasing a speed boat through an iceberg field. It just doesn't work.

 

[Maxvla]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim359 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just curious, are there many Star Trek novels? I've seen a bunch of (and read a few) Star Wars novels, but not Star Trek, though I imagine that there are a good number around.

There are many novels on both sides. Some bad, some great and many mediocre and perhaps not worth the time.

One of my particular favorites and by no means because of literary imagination, but for subject matter is the Dark Matter series in the Trek books. Star Wars books are typically better stories, but I find them even more fantasy than the movies and I don't care for them as well.

 

[GlendaleViper]

I was going to quote some stuff, but then realized your whole post was going to be touched on, so I stopped myself.

One thing real quick, which might put some perspective to my ranking: DS9 lost me at the beginning, whereas Voyager and Enterprise snared me right at the beginning. To be fair (and completely honest), the only ST series that actually gripped me right from the beginning and straight throughout were the original (reruns) and TNG. Never got to see Enterprise recover, FWIW.

As for SG-1... I'd really recommend that you take a look into it. I loved the original movie - as a Kurt Russel fan, and REALLY loved the series - as an SF fan. Especially after season 1, when MacGuyver came into it and really breathed life into what was an otherwise good series already. As far as I'm concerned, SG-1 was the spiritual successor to TNG, blending likable characters, a strong backdrop/universe and truly inspiring story arcs. Stargate was MUCH better as a series than a movie.

 

[jordanross]

Quote:

I enjoyed the original movie of Stargate, but the series I simply cannot watch.

Same here.

Now throw Firefly into the mix and what do you get?

I also agree with glendaleviper, DS9 lost me. But TNG and Voyager, are the cats meow for me.

 

[Maxvla]

I may give SG-1 another shot, but it's going to be a while. I have my plate full of anime mostly now.

The main reason I rank DS9 so highly is that granted the first few seasons were fairly bleak, but they were useful in character building and getting to know the Bajorans and how the wormhole worked. I particularly liked how this series was designed as a Federation outpost in the direct aftermath of a near total invasion of a planet. I really enjoyed Gul Dukat's character and the station being Cardassian design, being a unique element apart from the standard Starfleet bridge. Once the Klingons attacked the station and the Dominion war started DS9 to me surpasses most of TNG. I rank the entire show lower due to the weak beginning, but in the end the effect of all 7 seasons makes the end the most powerful of them all.

 

[appophylite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Incidentally, if we were to plop the Stargate series into the mix, SG-1 finds itself FIRMLY in spot #2.

I quite agree. And if my avatar wasn't an indication, I'd have to firmly plant Firefly/Serenity above them all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirosia /img/forum/go_quote.gif "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

Now would that place in hell be located anywhere near the 'special hell' reserved for child molesters and people who talk at the theater?

 

[Maxvla]

Now the real test is tossing in Babylon 5, which I would rank just behind DS9 in its best seasons. Fabulous show unfortunately shortened due to network/budget, etc. The space fights are more realistic than both Trek and Wars, and the storyline is one of the best. The rise and fall of Londo is most dramatic, but there are many other elements that make this one of the best sci-fi shows out there.