Stacking magnets?

[kkl10]

They were like 75 or 100lb pull magnets.

How on hell did you separate those things apart...

 

[Slater]

How on hell did you separate those things apart...

The trick is to slide magnets apart, not try and pull them apart.

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

Today I tried putting a double stack of 9 mm cheapo Amazon sourced magnets on a pair of lightly modded Grado SR 60e s. To my ears there was a marked improvement in their performance. More crisp and faster.

Thanks Slater for starting this informative thread.

Question. Is there a marked improvement with the more expensive magnets versus the cheap ones?

 

[kkl10]

Look for neodymium magnets with the highest N rating you can find (in principle, the stronger the better, but you can experiment with different N ratings to see if a lower strength works best). Magnets with the same size, shape and magnetic strength should have identical effect in the sound. Price is irrelevant. You might get more durable magnets from reputed suppliers, perhaps, which are a little more expensive. Just an issue of durability and reliability.

I pay a little premium to get most of my magnets from reputed European suppliers (some sell on Amazon) because I can trust their specs and because I have no patience to wait for ages. Haven't seen any Chinese seller that inspired much confidence in what they were selling, but that stuff costs almost nothing so...

 

[Slater]

Look for neodymium magnets with the highest N rating you can find (in principle, the stronger the better, but you can experiment with different N ratings to see if a lower strength works best). Magnets with the same size, shape and magnetic strength should have identical effect in the sound. Price is irrelevant. You might get more durable magnets from reputed suppliers, perhaps, which are a little more expensive. Just an issue of durability and reliability.

I pay a little premium to get most of my magnets from reputed European suppliers (some sell on Amazon) because I can trust their specs and because I have no patience to wait for ages. Haven't seen any Chinese seller that inspired much confidence in what they were selling, but that stuff costs almost nothing so...

Agreed.

I try to get N52 strength whenever possible. If not, then N50.

It’s also important to make sure you orient the magnet properly. In addition to perfectly centering it, you have to make sure the N and S poles are oriented correctly. You don’t want to put the magnet on ‘backwards’.

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

I was concerned about getting the pole orientation correct until I discovered that if you let the magnet "hover" over the driver, it will pop out of your fingers and align itself. They will even flip in mid air to get it right.

I have tried this mod on five Grado type drivers and it has produced improved clarity and speed each time

If you can safely get to your headphone drivers, this mod is easy, cheap and effective.

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

Slater, a question about magnet thickness. I have been using 1/32 N 52 cheapos with very positive results. I have been looking at a magnet sales web site. My logic is to get the largest diameter N 52 that I can get, without covering the vent holes.

My question is, do thicker magnets that have more pull force have a positive or negative influence? And when do you get to stacking over kill when it impedes the driver rather than helping it?


Thanks for your expertise.

 

[Slater]

In my experience and testing, a good rule of thumb is to try and match the diameter of the stock magnet (a little bit smaller is ok). And then I go with the thickest magnet that will physically fit in the shell, up to maybe 5-7mm thick.

As far as “too much”, as I mentioned a few posts ago, it takes ridiculous amount of magnetic force to get detrimental results. The amount of magnets it would take wouldn’t even fit in the driver cup! If you look at the very 1st post in this thread, I have a database of headphones I have tested, and the magnet sizes I’ve used in each (with nothing but positive results).

Even if you don’t have those exact headphones, you’ll still see somewhat of a ‘pattern’ from the list. There’s a fairly limited range of sizes that will fit most headphones (as 40mm and 50mm are the most common driver sizes).

For example, most headphones I’ve tried will accept a 15mm or 20mm diameter magnet, with a maximum thickness of 4mm-7mm. And I always try to get N52 or N50 strength if possible (weaker strength is still acceptable if N52 or N50 isn’t available).

Obviously you have to measure your exact headphone as YMMV (and some headphones can’t even have magnets due to space constraints). But the point is that there’s no monster 2” thick 75lb or 100lb pull magnets on that list, so there’s no need to even worry about “what if” this or that would be too powerful.

The only way I was able to get negative results was to take an open headphone, pop the rear grille out, and stack about 10 magnets. They stuck out the back of the headphone about 2”. It was ridiculous looking (like I had bull horns coming out of my headphones), and no one in their right mind would do that many magnets in real life. I just did it strictly as an experiment, to learn what difference there could be between 2 extremes (ie the difference between 0 and 10 magnets).

In the grand scheme of things, you really only need ONE magnet to get positive results (4mm-7mm for example), and that’s it.

I also want to emphasize that it is better to have 1 magnet vs multiple magnets. For example, on my Sivga SV007, the maximum size the cup will support is a 20mm diameter magnet of 7mm thickness. That’s ONE magnet. It would not be as effective to use (7) 1mm thick magnets stacked together, even though the end result would still be 7mm thick. There’s a magnetic loss every time you stack a magnet. Therefore, the single 7mm magnet will be much more powerful than the stack of (7) 1mm magnets (even though they both have the same overall physical dimensions).

I hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

Thank you VERY much for the detailed explanation and I am sorry if I over looked it your previous explanation.

 

[Slater]

Thank you VERY much for the detailed explanation and I am sorry if I over looked it your previous explanation.

Anytime friend.

 

[ArgBoston]

I attached n52 magnets to my SV007s and I noticed the bass appeared to be tighter. I need to to do more tests but i definitely noticed a change.

 

[Slater]

I attached n52 magnets to my SV007s and I noticed the bass appeared to be tighter. I need to to do more tests but i definitely noticed a change.

Nice! I have a magnet to my SV007 as well!

 

[mufflertape]

Hey Slater I just wanted to say thanks for giving me the Idea to add magnets to my hd58x, I put a magnet with over 2 Tesla of surface gauss(cleanest sound) and it has worked out pretty good, Ive tried a magnet that weighs a little more and has about 700 gauss and both are good(cleaner than stock with more full bass than the stronger one). I would like someone to validate the testing but clearer highs less mid bass and better sub bass rumble were are present. I can answer any questions as well etc.

 

[Slater]

Hey Slater I just wanted to say thanks for giving me the Idea to add magnets to my hd58x, I put a magnet with over 2 Tesla of surface gauss(cleanest sound) and it has worked out pretty good, Ive tried a magnet that weighs a little more and has about 700 gauss and both are good(cleaner than stock with more full bass than the stronger one). I would like someone to validate the testing but clearer highs less mid bass and better sub bass rumble were are present. I can answer any questions as well etc.

Glad you like it!

 

[mufflertape]

Glad you like it!

Yes sir! Also here are some measurements I took, It doesn't measure bass below say 100hz but still useful to prove the sonic difference. They will be linked as stock, then large ring magnet, then smaller very strong magnet. Also for references I use mine with dekoni velour pads as well as testing with my blue snowball mic in case someone wants to compensate the graphs.
Stock:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/163118487559077888/517900753235607553/unknown.png

Large Ring Magnet:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/163118487559077888/517903403725094922/unknown.png

Dense 2+ Tesla Ring Magnet
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/163118487559077888/517900180847198247/unknown.png

Also I can link to the specific ones I bought as well, Just let me know everyone.