[MrQ]

Has anyone got £17,900 spare?
 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE-90-and-HEV-90-set-/300597034841?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item45fcfabf59#ht_799wt_1279

 

[pachku]

Don't fret - Wiktor has been trying to sell that for months now, the ebay fees must begin to hurt at some time... I mean, more than double the price of a BHSE / SR-009? Come on...

 

[Nomad]

Quote:

welcome back Javier.   009 is the latest excitement after a long period of low time since HD800.    Just got my 009 today -- the first impression is that it is extremely neutral which is a big improvement over 007s that I hated.    zero hot treble like a few others have reported.   seems not as airy as HE60.   Hasn't got time to compare with my HE90 yet.  
 
in summary,  009 is definitely a keeper. 

Thanks ast! I really look forward to your impressions on the SR-009 and the HE90!
 
Quote:

[...] I'd like to encourage people to take more care when writing their posts and contribute more meaningful than [...]

I couldn't agree more. Stating at least amps used while comparing cans should be standard practice when we are talking at this level. We are not comparing cans straight from an ipod!
(Nothing wrong with that. I love my AT ESW10. They are amazing. And almost mini-MDR10s from an AT DHA3000)
 
Quote:

 It's bad enough that I just don't like listening to some of my favorite artists on the SR007A, and I hope the SR009 fixes that.

 
Good luck. I can't speak for the SR009 but I can tell you that the most forgiving system I ever owned is the Orpheus. Even the Go Team are listenable on them. Only for that they are truly special. The DHA3000-L3000 is another quite forgiven (edit: I meant forgiving) system, while keeping some good level of resolution.
 
Quote:

Don't fret - Wiktor has been trying to sell that for months now, the ebay fees must begin to hurt at some time... I mean, more than double the price of a BHSE / SR-009? Come on...

 
I can see your point, but the Orpheus is an amazing system, extremely enjoyable, euphonic and very forgiving. A true all-rounder that is still supported and serviced by Senn. So I'm not shocked at all. Price is fair market-wise depending on condition but that's not even the point because as with everything limited its price is whatever somebody is willing to pay for it.
I think I prefer the SR-Omega for most music but in some cases the Orpheus gives me something no other system can at the moment (Didn't try your SR009s yet. Can't wait). And I can see people willing to pay a premium for that. Which is not even that high compared with way more extravagant spendings we all see around us. I've seen extremely ugly, blingy dumbphones around that price range.

 

[kiertijai]

I agree the SR-009 are not a great match on the BHSE at loud volumes. Too revealing.
Of course- a warm source may be an option without the need to change the amp.
 
I find using the tube preamp in my dac softened up those sharp edges at louder volumes on the SR-009
 
    I previously posted my opinion on SR009 vs HE90 vs SR Omega vs O2mkI and II and commented that I prefer
the HE90> SR Omega > SR009 .  I also found that using the new Balancing Act 300B open up the soundstage
of LCD2 and could obtain better and better  result with LCD2 using the tube rolling.
    Previously I used the Stax 727A (Spritzer mod) which is very good for O2mkI but when using this with SR009, the
midrange becomes more forwarding, quicker pace and may be too bright for some people (but not me).  After the
post by RSBRSVP   about using warm source and tube preamp I used the preamplifier function of
the Balancing Act (using WE300B original as power tube, 6sn7 as drivers)  connecting from BA to the 727A via medium quality XLR I found that it changed the SR009 to a better way.  I also found that by changing the driver tubes from Swedish Standard or Westinghouse 6SN7 to Mullard ECC32 help improving the midrange of the SR009 .  When I used the National Union black glass 6SN7 or Kenrad VT 231(Kenrad is brighter and sweeter than the National Union),   the midrange of SR009 becomes more organic while maintaining its sweetness, its treble and bass extension.  Now I can listen the SR009 for a long time.  I may try to compare with the HE90 and SR Omega with this setup soon.
     From this I totally agreed that SR009 need warm full sounding amplifier (as Spritzer and RSBRSVP suggested). Although the 727A modded  is very good for O2, is not a good fit for SR009.  However I have a feeling that the HE90 will win but not by much because its nostalgic, euphoric sound that no phone can match. I may give the SR Omega = SR009 .
      I will also use better XLR interconnects with neutral or warm sound to see that improve the SR009 to the sound that I like.  I am more happy now and will use SR009 more.

 

[ishumarian]

Japan's venerable Stereo Sound reviewed SR009s in the last (not latest) issue. The short review was mostly positive.  The reviewer, Osamu, mentioned that the tonal quality of bass was slightly on the bright side, but extends smoothly and overflows with energy. He did mention that he desired a bit more richness out of the sound, that he heard a vocal recording which was made via ribbon microphones a while back, and the sound came out a bit too plain.
 
One caveat is that he used the SRM727A, along with Accuphase SACD player as source, not the most luxuriant-sounding gear around. =)

 

[Amarphael]

Welcome!
 
Quote:

that the tonal quality of bass was slightly on the bright side
 

Did you mean 'light side'?
 
 

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

Good luck. I can't speak for the SR009 but I can tell you that the most forgiving system I ever owned is the Orpheus. Even the Go Team are listenable on them. Only for that they are truly special. The DHA3000-L3000 is another quite forgiven (edit: I meant forgiving) system, while keeping some good level of resolution.

I finally had a chance to demo some SR009s through a GES and SRM-323S.  Amazing pair of headphones for classical and jazz.  Nothing else I've heard comes close for those genres, though I am very interested in trying out some SR-507s and the Orpheus to compare against.  The instrument separation through an Alpha DAC was incredible.  It's hard to put into words what I heard.  It wasn't so much that I heard a significantly larger soundstage vs. the SR007A, but the instruments seemed to breathe much easier, particularly during busy sections with multiple orchestral instrument sections playing simultaneously.  String instruments had that little bit of extra resonance that made them sound more musical, like the difference you'd hear with a 300 year old Italian or German made instrument, compared to one that was crafted just a few decades ago.
 
The downside was that the SR009s sounded shrill playing any other genre, particularly electronica, metal, pop, and rock.  Particularly at high volumes, I found them even more unlistenable than Grados at high volume.  Maybe I'm getting old, but they were piercing.  I'd imagine a better amp (BHSE, DIY T2, WES) with tube matching would have helped, but I can't say until I have a chance to try someone's high-end stat amp, or my BHSE finishes.
 
Otoh, that might have been a good thing, since it forces people to listen to music at lower volumes   The SR009 was fine with everything at lower volumes.
 
Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing how the HE90s stand up against the SR009s, particularly for baroque and romantic composers.

 

[spritzer]

I've been gearing up for a SR-007 and SR-009 comparison for a while now, quickly eliminating the SR-007 Mk2 (SZ3) from the comparison since it is can't play with the big boys due to its excessively forward nature and the SR-007A (SZ2) bass suffers a bit in its completely unmodified state.  That just leaves the Mk1 which is my first set and now about 9 years old so I took some time to completely refurbish it.  I stripped the set down completely, hand selected new drivers for it (these were from the earliest version of the Mk1 even though my set had the newer version) and installed well worn Mk2 earpads.  The arc on this set has also been carefully manipulated to fit my head like a glove which does do quite a bit to the sound. 
 
I get good results from both headphones from my KGSS so I used that and kept the volume level fixed (keeping a flat gain level in software) at a midpoint so while the SR-009 is a bit louder than the SR-007 but doesn't suffer too much.  Both sets were plugged in at the same time which isn't ideal but necessary to remove any doubts about charge issues.  Music was what ever the computer threw at me at random. 
 
Both are truly stunning headphones but for my tastes the SR-007 comes out on top at least for the majority of the time.  The SR-007 bass is rounder, more fleshed out while the 009's is a bit brighter but not really faster.  Just a tiny bit thinner which lends it an edge like feel to it.  I wouldn't call it one note by any means but the 007 can pull off more range here.  The midrange and sound stage are where these cans really shine and leave others in the dust.  Here the 007 has a darker tone but also a slightly more natural feel where voices sound eerily real.  The 009 is brighter but this brightness dances on an razors edge so if the recording is anything but perfect the voices have a strange edge to them.  Not all that dissimilar to the etch found on old Lambdas but not nearly as pronounced.  Even on well recorded material the midrange is a bit too pronounced for my tastes so voices stand out too much.  The soundstage isn't that dissimilar between the two sets, extended and 3d where instruments and voices appear out of thin air in a 180°arc around the face.  The 009 has a slight edge here but it isn't by much.  Same deal with the top end, the 009 edges out a win with its more forward nature but one has to be careful not to push the volume too far or they become quite strident and in-your-face.  Detail retrieval is also pretty much a tie even though they present it a bit differently.  The 009 is more forward so the detail is more prominent but the 007 easily matches it but in a more subtle fashion. 
 
For me the SR-007's edges it out based on its real strength, they are smooth yet revealing which no other transducer I've heard can truly match.  Both phones are keepers and I'm glad Stax have the SR-009 now for people who like the more forward nature of the SR-Omega but built properly.  In fact, its build quality even shames the SR-007 which is no small feat. 

 

[Elysian]

Thanks for your detailed and straightforward thoughts, spritzer.  I can't comment on the difference between the different SR007 models, but everything else you mentioned in the 007 vs 009 matches my impressions pretty dead-on.
 
I found the SR009 bass thinner than the SR007.  I could pick up on more detail on snare kicks and cymbals on the SR009 but it just didn't feel as full or satisfying as the SR007.  I also preferred the more laidback nature of the SR007 with vocals.  It's not a perfect analogy, but I found the SR007 a bit more analog and pleasant sounding, while the SR009 was more digital and etched out.  The detail with the SR009 was amazing, but I want to stress that it didn't actually make vocals necessarily more enjoyable to listen to.  The SR007s are more relaxing for me to listen to.  The SR009 require a greater level of engagement which is well-suited to critical listening sessions, but take more energy and attention than I typically want to devote to listening.
 
I did not hear a noteworthy difference in soundstage between the two headphones, but wasn't sure if that was attributable to amp limitations.
 
Last but certainly not least, the SR009s were flat-out unpleasant at high volume, particularly for electronica and metal.  The strengths of the SR009 became too much for me at high volume, even with bass and tenor-clef solo instrument recordings.
 
In short, I liked the SR009 for critical listening, but currently consider the SR007 more liveable in the long-run.
 
I'm glad to be reading similar thoughts, as I was wondering if something was wrong with my ears, given the superlative reviews the SR009 was getting.  I was resigning myself to chalking it up to the subjectivity of the hobby, or that I don't like the right kind of music for the SR009.
 
Just to throw this out as a gross generalization, given the limited sample size of reviews and impressions I've gotten directly from others, I've noticed that people in a later age group seem to like the SR009s more than people in a younger age group (though, I can think of a few exceptions).  Maybe it has something to do with the frequency response of the SR009s?

 

[kiertijai]

Thanks Spritzer and Elysian for sharing your experience on SR009.
      I am waiting for Spritzer to have more info , after opening up the SR009
I think several head-fiers agree that the tone may be a little bright and cannot listen
to a high volume and some may prefer SR007 over SR009.
I have tried to use the SR009 through my BA amplifier in preamplifier function
and do tube rolling of the BA.   I found out that using the drivers 6SN7's such as
Kenrad VT231 < National Union black glass < Marconi B65 (from good to excellent)
in order can modify the midrange to become more organic, more rich and no or much
less sharp edge.  For my setup tubes such as Tungsol BGRP, ECC32, ECC33, ECC35
Telefunken, Swedish Standard, Brimar, SICTE Fivre, Sylvania 6SN7W do not have the
effect to improve much especially the midrange of SR009 as the Marconi BL65 or NU black glass.
      Marconi B65 can help the SR009 midrange and bright tone the most, so in my setup
I will connect like this : Lindemann 820S    to Weiss DAC 202   XLR out  to Balancing Act
XLR analog out (preamplifier function) to 727A (modded).  Tubes used are WE 300B's as
power tubes and  Marconi B65 as drivers.  I love this setup more than the other that I have tried
and now I can listen with a higher volume and long time of listening.   The midrange is very sweet,
rich and flowing. While the treble has high extension and not bright at all while the bass response
is still very good.

 

[jaycalgary]

Glad to hear the O2's are comparable. I was hoping someone can tell me the correct way to have the 02/Mk1 earpads installed? I just rotated sides to see if I could get a better fit. The part I am wondering about is the metal bar that goes from the center. Right now it is at about 3 oclock on the right and goes into the thickest part of the earpad. Anyone know what position it is suppose to be in? Thanks

 

[visualguy]

Quote:

 
One caveat is that he used the SRM727A, along with Accuphase SACD player as source, not the most luxuriant-sounding gear around. =)

The SR-009 sound best to me through the SRM-727a (original - unmodified). I've also tried the KGSS, SRM-323S, and SRM-007ta. The 727 seems to have the best synergy with the SR-009.
 

 

[arnaud]

Wow, these latest observations make me almost glad I did not bother messing with my stock 727A yet. I do notice the etch / feeling of projection at higher volumes / with some recordings and I thought it was due to the amp but, based on the recent posts it seems to be even more problematic with higher end amps? Maybe I am lucky to have may system fine tuned for the 009 balance in the sense that my D/A is particularly non-edgy / warm sounding and I'm using some DIY copper interconnects that are supposed to be easy going too (Belden or Neuman mic cable or something like that, I have to admit I can't hear these subtle differences that well...).
Birgir, it looks like you have pretty much found / built the perfect headphone for your needs, I hope to hear it someday as I really have hard time finding anything that my 007A does better than 009 if only be kind to music collection . As you said also, listening volume is likely playing a big part in everyone's impressions, I listen to fairly low volume at home (and did have issues with the 009 at some noisy store).
 
@ Kiertijai: very interesting findings about the preamp pairing. It begs the question: are you still following up with Craig about his prototype Stax amps? I know they've been a bit criticized by the experts as for the choice of tube (which does have barely enough gain to get sufficient voltage swing) but on the other hand, I believe Craig has the ability to make sweet sounding gear so I am definitely curious about what he may come up with.
 

 

[arnaud]

Quote:

The SR-009 sound best to me through the SRM-727a (original - unmodified). I've also tried the KGSS, SRM-323S, and SRM-007ta. The 727 seems to have the best synergy with the SR-009.
 

I got lynched for pre-supposing this 6 months ago, rightly so because I was talking about amps I didn't listen to, yet funny we're coming down this road now.
 

 

[ast]

I have been listening between 009 and HE90 for about three weeks out of KGSS DX, ML360S, and iTune Lossless.   genres are classical, asian female vocal, electronic/ambient, mostly.    It is truly intriguing to compare the two.   90 is noticeably more rounded and forgiving,  while 009 has more details and better bass, the instrument separation is insane, also a tad more neutral to my ears.   I prefer 009 for non-vocal pieces in general.   HE90 has a magic in vocal, especially with asian female pop, which is hard to put in words.     Keep in mind we are splitting hairs here,  some differences are very subtle.