[Sound Eq]

can anyone please tell me if they used crossfeed with neutron music player, and what settings do some recommend

I feel always that I hear louder in my right ear than the left, so using default crossfeed in neutron music player fixes that, but that is at the expense of sound stage, and I wondering what is the best way to implement corssfeed in neutron music player

 

[RRod]

can anyone please tell me if they used crossfeed with neutron music player, and what settings do some recommend

I feel always that I hear louder in my right ear than the left, so using default crossfeed in neutron music player fixes that, but that is at the expense of sound stage, and I wondering what is the best way to implement corssfeed in neutron music player

Neutron uses a bs2b-like implementation of crossfeed. The graph in the Neutron crossfeed options shows the frequency response of the two filters used in the implementation, and the link above also gives information on the time delays. The Neutron presets match up to some commonly used settings. Here are the descriptions from the above link:

1) 700 Hz, 4.5 dB - default.
This setting is closest to the virtual speaker placement with azimuth 30 degrees and the removal of about 3 meters, while listening by headphones.
2) 700 Hz, 6 dB - most popular.
This setting is close to the parameters of a Chu Moy's [3] crossfeeder.
3) 650 Hz, 9.5 dB - making the smallest changes in the original signal only for relaxing listening by headphones.
This setting is close to the parameters of a crossfeeder implemented in Jan Meier's [4] CORDA amplifiers.

 

[bigshot]

Headphones don’t have soundstage. They have sound presented as a straight line through the ears. Cross feed lessens channel separation and pushes things more toward the middle of your head. If you like that effect, it’s fine. If not, lessen the intensity of the cross feed and it’ll move the center wider through the line through your ears.

If your ears hear at different levels, you can just adjust the balance or perhaps EQ left and right differently to compensate

 

[Sound Eq]

Headphones don’t have soundstage. They have sound presented as a straight line through the ears. Cross feed lessens channel separation and pushes things more toward the middle of your head. If you like that effect, it’s fine. If not, lessen the intensity of the cross feed and it’ll move the center wider through the line through your ears.

If your ears hear at different levels, you can just adjust the balance or perhaps EQ left and right differently to compensate

thanks so much, i dont know why its mainly the bass that I notice is less loud in my left ear than the right ear

when I do crossfeed everything sound spot on, but at loss of sound stage

can I ask a question how on neutron can I lessen the default corssfeed abit

 

[Sound Eq]

Neutron uses a bs2b-like implementation of crossfeed. The graph in the Neutron crossfeed options shows the frequency response of the two filters used in the implementation, and the link above also gives information on the time delays. The Neutron presets match up to some commonly used settings. Here are the descriptions from the above link:

thanks for the reply, can you tell me how to lessen the default crossfeed in neutron

 

[RRod]

thanks for the reply, can you tell me how to lessen the default crossfeed in neutron

Go to Settings -> DSP Effect -> Crossfeed
Use the setting descriptions above to try variations on the two settings. Technically they should be chosen to best match your desired speaker angle and the distance between yours ears, but there's only so much a 2 parameter crossfeed can do.

 

[Sound Eq]

thanks all, i wonder how come using crossfeed fixes for me the perception of bass difference between left and right, or to be more accurate i used to hear the bass shifted to the right and with corssfeed this is gone, which was really not fun with iems

is that what crossfeed supposed to do

for me i am now only using daps that have android so i can use neutron and crossfeed

 

[RRod]

thanks all, i wonder how come using crossfeed fixes for me the perception of bass difference between left and right, or to be more accurate i used to hear the bass shifted to the right and with corssfeed this is gone, which was really not fun with iems

is that what crossfeed supposed to do

for me i am now only using daps that have android so i can use neutron and crossfeed

The amount of crossfeed is highest for bass frequencies, so that is a reasonable perception to have.

 

[71 dB]

Headphones don’t have soundstage. They have sound presented as a straight line through the ears. Cross feed lessens channel separation and pushes things more toward the middle of your head.

Nonsense. That's what you'd think happens if you don't know better.

Even without crossfeed headphones have some sort of miniature soundstage (as long as the recording has good enough spatial information), just distorted due to excessive ILD. Crossfeed scales ILD so the soundstage becomes undistorted and the sounds take a distance of the head, because large ILD means closer sounds. The miniature soundstage becomes a bit larger.Crossfeed especially move sounds from shoulders to in front of the listener, from a few inches away to 1-3 feet away from ears. With bad recordings the soundstage is bad, but who tells you to listen to bad recordings if you want good soundstage? New multichannel SACD releases of classical music contain well recorded natural spatial information and when downmixed to stereo using Lt/Rt method and crossfed properly can produce amazing soundstage for headphone, almost as good as with speakers, but that only happens with the best recordings. However, even half-decent recordings produce some sort of soundstage crossfed.

 

[71 dB]

thanks all, i wonder how come using crossfeed fixes for me the perception of bass difference between left and right, or to be more accurate i used to hear the bass shifted to the right and with corssfeed this is gone, which was really not fun with iems

is that what crossfeed supposed to do

for me i am now only using daps that have android so i can use neutron and crossfeed

Crossfeed makes bass mono-like and increases realism, what it is in real life. Volume difference or/and timing difference can shift bass to right.

 

[barryt]

I've had the opportunity for the past 4 months to experiment with the addition of cross-feed to my headphone rig (see my signature). In my case it's a custom designed 6 level balanced cross-feeder. I'm extremely pleased with this major enhancement to my listening experience and I find several theoretical issues keep swirling around in my thoughts as I learn more and more about just what cross-feed does to the sounds I'm hearing through my headphone. I'll address just one of these issues below.

First, just so you know at least one of my biases up front, I'm a dedicated 2-channel audiophile. I've never particularly enjoyed any surround-sound type home theater set up I've ever auditioned finding the multiple sound sources confusing and unnatural.

I'm also aware of the rather strong negative view toward cross-feed in general among Head-Fi members and by the headphone gear industry as well, as is made obvious by the rarity of cross-feed implementation with either headphone amps or stand alone cross-feed devices such as mine. (I had to have one custom made only because nothing like it exists in the marketplace that I've been able to find.)

So the issue,

First, there's no question that cross-feed does indeed narrow the width of the soundstage and this seems to be the primary objection to it's implementation by most listeners. The more cross-feed, the narrower the soundstage until you reach maximum-- a mono signal. Cross-feed, in my experience, has no noticeable effect on the depth of the soundstage.

The question that arises: Is having the widest possible soundstage with your headphone gear always desirable as seems to be the opinion of virtually everyone contributing to Head-Fi?

I've come to the conclusion that the answer is definitely not.

The first inkling I had that extreme soundstage width might not be desirable, indeed quite unnatural sounding, was when I got a chance to audition an HD-800 rig using the Decware Taboo MK II. The accuracy and clarity were amazing to be sure but the extreme width of the soundstage was quite disorienting and unnatural to me.

Using cross-feed these last several months has demonstrated to me quite clearly that this kind of presentation, where the sound sources are coming at your brain from so far around the sides of your head is not only contrary to what one hears at a live performance but confusing and disorienting to the brain in a way that is actually fatiguing over time. I've noticed that adding cross-feed not only sounds much more like an actual live performance but is a much more relaxed presentation without the fatigue with extended listening.

No doubt all this is irrelevant to many of the genres of electronic music which deliberately use channel separation effects as a major element. My listening however is primarily acoustic classical music and, of course, when I do listen to electronic music, I turn off the cross-feeder.

I suspect that the generally negative views I've seen by most Head-Fiers to the idea of cross-feed stems from the saturation of our culture with the implementation of surround-sound in movie theaters and home theater set-ups. For many, that dizzying effect of the sounds coming at you from all directions at once sounds normal. It never has, though, to me.

I'm also well aware that cross-feed tends to diminish the micro-detail of the perceived sound signal in the same way that listening to loudspeakers does (i.e. the natural cross-feed heard by our ears in the absence of headphones). Again, this is natural and realistic to me. By analogy, one doesn't tend to appreciate a Picasso painting using a magnifying glass.

For the last few months I have

 

[pinnahertz]

Nonsense. That's what you'd think happens if you don't know better.

1. Even without crossfeed headphones have some sort of miniature soundstage (as long as the recording has good enough spatial information), 2. just distorted due to excessive ILD. 3. Crossfeed scales ILD so the soundstage becomes undistorted and the sounds take a distance of the head, because large ILD means closer sounds. 4. The miniature soundstage becomes a bit larger. 5. Crossfeed especially move sounds from shoulders to in front of the listener, from a few inches away to 1-3 feet away from ears. 6. With bad recordings the soundstage is bad, but who tells you to listen to bad recordings if you want good soundstage? 6. New multichannel SACD releases of classical music contain well recorded natural spatial information and when downmixed to stereo using Lt/Rt method and crossfed properly can produce amazing soundstage for headphone, almost as good as with speakers, but that only happens with the best recordings. However, even half-decent recordings produce some sort of soundstage crossfed.

Nonsense. That's what you'd think happens if you don't know better.

The illustration rarely works that way, and the actual results of cross-feed are highly dependent on the recording, and listener perception.

1. Soundstange without cross-feed is, if anything, larger than with it.
2. There's no such thing as "distorted ILD".
3. ILD can't become "undistorted" because theres no such thing as "distorted ILD" in the first place.
4. Cross-feed does not create a larger sound-stage, generalized cross-feed, of the 71dB variety, creates a smaller, narrower, flatter, one.
5. Cross-feed, of the 71dB variety, never moves sounds in front! If that's the way it's perceived, it's the listener's active perception, nothing cross-feed has done.
6. Bad/good soundstage/recordings are an entirely subjective matter. Cross-feed doesn't take into account any subjective variable, and thus is, itself, only applicable subjectively, based on preference. It is not universally accepted or desired.

@71 dB So, we're doing this here too? Really? Why?

 

[TYATYA]

can anyone please tell me if they used crossfeed with neutron music player, and what settings do some recommend

I feel always that I hear louder in my right ear than the left, so using default crossfeed in neutron music player fixes that, but that is at the expense of sound stage, and I wondering what is the best way to implement corssfeed in neutron music player

I have some exp using neutronmp since it lauch. If you care for an app for music on smarphone, my recommend is uapp (usb audio player pro).
Now back to question. Crossfeed in newtronmp have 3 parameters.
. Frequency : set pass freq where over than that is bypass
. Threshold (quite some time no use this app so may be this word differ) in dB set a level which over this value will be process, less than is by pass. So, set 9dB will have LESS effect than a 5dB set.
. Timming in microsecond. Decied process or not a signal.

Exam. Female voice mostly no change if you set 600Hz but works if set 1500Hz.
9dB make more "monoing" than 6dB.
Less than 5dB make too big monoing effect.
Timming : defaul bar shows 20 - 200 but can keyin any value.
Try very small value as 0.5 may be better than defaul.

Favourable is 800-3000 Hz and 6dB - 10dBn timming 0.1-10


Uapp : it have crossfeed too. I like its crossfeed than that of newtron.
Uapp also have parametric eq for INDIVIDUAL R/L. You can add bass to the side you less sensitive. No need to use Balancer R/L bcs it acts to all range

 

[bigshot]

Even without crossfeed headphones have some sort of miniature soundstage

Soundstage is a presentation of the musicians spread out in front of you like performers on a stage. You can get this with stereo speakers because the speakers are physically in front of you and the two channels join in the center to create a phantom center.

Headphones present sound one dimensionally- as a line through the center of the head right through the ears. Call it headstage, because it's all in your head.
Stereo speakers present a two dimensional soundstage- a plane of sound spread out in front of you from left to right. Traditional definition of soundstage.
5.1 presents a 2 1/2 dimensional soundstage- two planes: left to right and front to back. Soundstage like in a movie.
Atmos presents a three dimensional sound field- left to right, front to back and vertical. True three dimensional sound.

Not all recordings have soundstage. Stuff like Pink Floyd make no attempt to place sound as if it's musicians on a stage. Mix elements fly around all over the place. I'm not sure what the name of this is. Soundscape?

 

[pinnahertz]

Perhaps it's just me, but I really don't think we need more made-up terminology.

You can get images in more dimensions than 2 with both 2-channel stereo and 5.1 with a bit of special processing, but it's not a solid phantom image, more of an etherial one that takes a bit of acceptance on the part of the listener. Certain speakers can image outside of the line between them quite readily.

I hate the term "soundstage" because it is not defined well. If you define soundstage as the set of positions from which sounds appear to emanate, then every recording, even mono ones, have a soundstage, though of very different dimensions. Pink Floyd then would have a very large and variable soundstage. But it's more a question of definition of terms. Soundstage is one of those audiophile terms that means different things to different people, and that makes it pretty hard to discuss either qualitatively or quantitatively.