Soundstage Width and Cross-feed: Some Observations

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by andolink, Sep 21, 2014.
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  1. cladane
    Could you tell what crossfeed you use ?
    I wanted to experiment with Audirvana and TB isone as an AU plugin.
  2. SunTanScanMan

    I use the built in crossfeed circuitry in my DAC. I think the same is used in the amp, but I leave it off. I use the bass boost function with crossfeed as the lower frequencies can seem reduced due to being distributed over both channels (according to the manual at least). The dac has a more natural sounding bass boost in my opinion.
    I wonder why more manufacturers don't come up with crossfeed boxes (or have they I don't know). I'm guessing they would be much cheaper than having to buy and amp or dac along with it. But again, I presume the software options would be a cheaper option altogether.
    If I had the patience I would try out the software options out there to compare.
    I don't think there's much suspicion towards crossfeed filters? Or perhaps people are more accustomed to the stereo presentation than I...
    I find the Rubber Soul and Revolver stereo remasters almost unlistenable without crossfeed activated due to the extreme left and right separation on headphones.
  3. cladane
    There are Crossfeed boxes designed following Meier concept. Look
    I have noticed also the SPL Phonitor 2.
    It seems that people hearing at headphones are more concerned by definition instead of soundstage which is speakers domain.
  4. SunTanScanMan
    Ah ok thanks that's interesting.

    I don't place too much importance in soundstage, and I do like detail, so I would be those people you are describing. At the same time, I don't use the feature in order to try mimic speakers. As long as the effect produces a coherent presentation of the music that is comfortable on the headphone listener, then I'm happy.
    I notice that the description on that site does NOT say it 'widens' the soundstage, rather it 'improves' it. And I would agree, at least with the crossfeed I use. In fact most of the time soundstage seems narrower, with what seems like marginally more natural placement of instruments - like a ball of sound around my forehead... if that makes any sense...

    The degree of this effect heavily dependent on the recording of course.

  5. castleofargh Contributor

    it gets narrower, as it mixes the channels. the impact is more in depth, but the sides do lose a little. it's mostly pushing a few instruments further in front of us(like mono does). that's what I like to call a more 3D sound even though it has nothing to do with a surround DSP.
  6. RRod
    I listen to mainly orchestral music. The effect for me is that, instead of feeling like the conductor, I feel like I'm in the audience.
  7. cladane

    But 'surround DSPs' concern Speakers not Headphones, isn't it ? Or are there physical or software ones usable on stereo files and not only 5.1 ?
  8. RRod
    There are DSPs that can take 5.1 and convert it into a virtual headphone surround signal (look up HRTF or HRIR).
  9. cladane

    Exactly the point. I'm looking at DSPs which work not on 5.1 but stereo files since I have not 5.1 music files. I'm streaming from CD quality classical music and I'm looking at reproducing the soundstage of speakers into my headphones.
  10. RRod
    Well that's what crossfeed is for… On Linux, I used the bs2b LADSPA plugin, which lets me add the crossfeed DSP to any incoming audio pipe/stream.
  11. dhruvmeena96
    ... sire....

    Actually the soundstage they talk here is headstage

    Which comes from proper playing of decay signature

    As ear perceive different signature when the source is to near(sensitive to decay)

    If decay is lessened somewhere and tightened would give different matter what frequency response is

    Make the headphone flat...but if bass has will always bloom and if treble has will sound harsh

    But if there little decay in midbass(not hump) and upper mids with high decay on high treble(above 22khz)

    It will soundstage like hell(opera) but no reverb will sound very large

    Having audeze lcd3(the tightest decay headphone) it still have a great headstage due to large driver and earpad which have little distance....but senn hd 800 soubds even bigger
  12. The Walrus
    My JBL loudspeakers came with the instruction manual that shows the dimensions of the ideal room, the ideal placement of the speakers and the ideal place you should sit down when you're listening to music. I assume it shouldn't be too hard for a DSP software to make the necessary adjustment in order to mimic the loudspeaker listening experience adjusted for headphones. Is it?
    Forgive my ignorance on the subject. what DSP would you suggest to experiment on? 
  13. cladane
    For headphones you will need some Head Tracking functionality.
    Perhaps the Smyth Realiser 8 or 16 or Nx Head Tracker from Waves ?
  14. The Walrus
    Actually I don't want Head Tracking functionality. What i want is something that emulates the ideal listening conditions (with loudspeakers) and sends the modified signal to the left and right channel of my headphones. 
  15. RRod
    You will still need to do, in essence, what something like the Realiser does: use binaural mics to take measurements in your own ears for both setups and then create the necessary filters. But do note that tracking even minor movements of the head can greatly aid in making a true frontal presentation.
    jgazal likes this.
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