[LobsterSan]

Alright, so I've been bitten by a bit of an upgraditis bug. Actually, it's more like a curiousity bug because I've been contented for too long now. I don't have a lot of extra cash just sitting around, but being in the land of Stax has got my mind thinking about the possibilities.

However, if I went the electrostatic route, I would probably go for the SR-404, and it would probably be paired with an SRM-313. This is from a price-performance perspective. But... this is still a bit pricey for me at the moment.

Since hearing the wonder of electrostats and the SR-404 at a Chicagoland meet before leaving for Japan, I've been unable to get that sound out of my head. The level of resolution and clarity, as well as the spaciousness and instrument separation just had me begging for more listening time.

However, I've been reading quite a bit about charge times with the Omega-II's. How they ideally should be plugged in all the time. Or have about 8 hours charge before listening to them. This, to me, poses a problem. Do the SR-404's also take as long a time to charge as the O2's? If this is the case, I can't justify spending the money on such a unit. For me, ease and convenience of listening is just as important as sound quality.

If the SR-404 take time to charge, just as the O2's do, then I would actually prefer to go the dynamic route. Unless anyone can suggest some sort of workaround to the charging problem.

So, if it is dynamics that I am to go with, can anyone recommend something with a sonic signature close to that of the Stax electrostatic offerings?

 

[minya]

It's not a serious problem. Just leave them turned on for a half-hour before listening. And don't unplug them.

The 404/313 combo is the absolute best price/performance value ratio in the world of headphonedom, IMO. Since you can get it straight in Japan it should cost you something like $650 or less.

- Chris

 

[JaZZ]

Personally I don't believe that much in the charge-time phenomenon -- if you're referring to the charging of the static voltage in the membrane. It's simply not plausible from a physical perspective. Moreover I've never noticed such an effect with one of my three electrostatics, and I'm one who otherwise hears the effect from cables and break-in.

What's reality (to me) is the warm-up time of the amp, in my case a Stax SRM-T1 tube amp. I haven't noticed the same behavior with the solid-state SRM-Xh. In any event I can unplug the headphones and plug them in again with no negative consequence for the sound: within a second it's the same as before unplugging.

As to a dynamic headphone with electrostatic qualities... that's not hard for me to recommend: the HD 650. Not quite electrostatic sound (luckily!) and not quite the same detail, resolution and smoothness, but a clear approximation to it, and moreover more impact and attack than foil transducers as well as a certain warmth that reminds (me) more to reality than the slightly analytical presentation of all electrostatics I've heard so far.

 

[LobsterSan]

Minya:
Are you saying that the SR-404 isn't as charge dependent as you think the O2's are? I think I remember you saying you leave your O2's in all the time, so you obviously think charge time has some effect on the sound quality? If the SR-404 truly isn't very charge-dependent... I may have to put aside my digital camcorder purchase for a while.

JaZZ:
So how long does it take to warm up your tube?

But seriously, does it take more than 15-30 minutes for the amp to warmup? I really don't want to be waiting any more than 30 minutes to get my amp/phone combo to it's maximum potential. When I want to hear something, I want to hear it now. I guess I'm just an impatient person.

As for the HD-650 adding warmth -- I'm a bit of an analytical-phone lover. I like clarity, separation, and resolution. That's perhaps why I believe Stax are well-mated to my current listening preferences. I suppose the CD3000 may be the dynamic alternative I was thinking about, as I remember hearing them and having a fairly nice reaction to them... but I'd probably have to audition the HD-650 as well now that it's an option.

 

[fmplautus]

Try the AKG K-1000 through a good power amp (class A solid state or modern tube).

 

[Wmcmanus]

Another vote for K1000 with proper amping.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobsterSan So how long does it take to warm up your tube? But seriously, does it take more than 15-30 minutes for the amp to warmup?

Officially the warm-up phase is terminated when the pre-heat lamp stops blinking -- that's after one minute. From then on you can listen to the phones. The sound is really good then, and I actually don't miss anything. But the ultimate smoothness and liquidity appears not before 2½ hours. The difference is not day and night though and clearly less pronounced than e.g. the one between HD-650 stock cable and Zu Mobius. However, that's with the SRM-T1 which isn't in production anymore, and Stax' today's tube amps may behave differently. So the warm-up phase with my EMP is much shorter and less obvious to my ears. Or how about a solid-state amp for an analytical-sound lover?


Quote:

As for the HD-650 adding warmth...

Hey, I wasn't saying «adding», rather implying «preserving»...

Quote:

...I'm a bit of an analytical-phone lover. I like clarity, separation, and resolution. That's perhaps why I believe Stax are well-mated to my current listening preferences.

So, yes, probably a Stax is best for you. I also appreciate the electrostatic clarity and resolution and would never part from them for this reason. I just feel that it's not entirely «right» in the sense of accurate, and especially the analytical component separates me a bit from the music (not the clarity itself). But if you like it anyway, I'd say: go for Stax! You'll be happy with them.

 

[LobsterSan]

Hmm, K1000 is definitely another option to look into. I've only tried them briefly and couldn't get much of a read on their sound, as they were only used for a brief time in noisy conditions. I fear it may be difficult getting my hands on a pair of those in Japan though.

As for amping the Stax with solid state... that's something I never considered before. How would the SR-404 interface with a standard solid state amp? The plugs are vastly different, no? Has this been attempted before with success and with what amps? (I would search, but y'know the deal with that)

And for the owners of the newer Stax amps, most specifically the SRS-313, how long does it take to warm up for you?

 

[cansman]

I have not heard an electrostatic headphone yet. But I have the Etymotic ER-4S in-ears and it's amazingly fast, transparent, with virtually no coloration. Some may say that it's a bit lean. But, I will say that it doesn't add any bloat to the sound.

I read Martin Colloms in Hi Fi + saying that the Etymotics resemble electrostatics in sound quality.

Regards.

 

[Leporello]

After purchasing the Stax 3030 combo I initially thought there was a short warming-up period of 15 mins or so. But this phenomenon seems to have vanished (it may have been my imagination in the first place).


Regards,

L.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobsterSan As for amping the Stax with solid state... that's something I never considered before. ... The plugs are vastly different, no?

No, they are the same for Stax tube and solid-state amps.

 

[minya]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobsterSan Minya: Are you saying that the SR-404 isn't as charge dependent as you think the O2's are? I think I remember you saying you leave your O2's in all the time, so you obviously think charge time has some effect on the sound quality? If the SR-404 truly isn't very charge-dependent... I may have to put aside my digital camcorder purchase for a while.

I do leave my O2s in all the time. Same with the 404s when I had them. I don't know if the 404s were as "charge-dependent" as the O2s are... I don't think it's much of an issue, though. It's not something you need to worry about. Leave them turned on for fifteen, thirty minutes before listening and you'll be fine.

- Chris

 

[LobsterSan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ No, they are the same for Stax tube and solid-state amps.

Ah, I just realized that the SRM-313 is a solid state amp. That actually would solve the whole warming-up problem. I thought you might have been thinking of a way to hook Stax 'phones up to something like a Sugden Headmaster.

OK, so my warm-up fears have been assuaged. Perhaps it is now time to go price scouting...

I was also considering the ER-4P and the Shure canalphone offerings, but I've tried them both and there's something about canalphones that just don't do it for me. It may be just that I need to sit down with them for an extended period of time, but the soundstage just felt... too much in my head.

 

[marios_mar]

Quote:

The 404/313 combo is the absolute best price/performance value ratio in the world of headphonedom, IMO.

I though this was the 303s which are same as 404s with different cabling. And according to reviews I read i thought the 3030 system is the killer deal.

 

[nanahachi]

Craig, ygpm