[Redcarmoose]

Well, Imagine that. You actually had something thoughtful you could have said? Cool.

Ive been listening to Sabbath ever since my Mom purchased a cassette tape of them for me in 1972 when I was ten. I'm glad I know who that band is now so I don't ever see em. I'm maybe way too serious about Sabbath?

 

[SilverEars]

Hey there @Redcarmoose and thanks for that. I thought I was alone with this track and album so it's lovely to find a kindred soul. Standout track from their best album for me too and you describe it way better than I could.
My love affair with The Cure started 3 days after leaving home to Uni that 3 day later found me fighting to front central sweatsville for an extended intro of "A Reflection" leading into "A Forrest" and a fantastic night. Bye bye mum and dad, hello music. That was late 1980 and a few months later Faith came out and it was played on my crappy tape machine incessantly until it wore out. In fact it's one of the few albums that I've re-bought when I got a vinyl player then CD. All Cats Are Grey still gives me goosebumps and leaves me kind of hypnotised and lost in a happy place every time I hear it.
Dark Days of The Cure were the best. I love a heap of their more commercial later singles but I'm more of an album lover and the few you mention are the best for me. Later ones didn't work too well but Disintegration was a pretty damned good.
Don't know if you've ever seen the Youtube vid below but was a lovely find for me. "A Forrest" apparently was originally penned as "At Night". Lyrics were changed to what we now know and "At Night" morphed into something completely different on "Seventeen Seconds".

When Robert Smith didn't have make-up! I never seen him without make-up. Doesn't seem like the make-up really changed the music. Joy Division on the other hand, there was a big change after they've turned into New Order after Curtis wasn't in the band anymore.



This was around the time when the synth was starting to become a prominent part of instrumentation, no? At least in the UK, it was starting to be come popularized when price become cheaper and more portable. More people had access and started experimenting. It was a big change in music in the UK in the times with punk having big influence.

 

[SilverEars]

 

[Steve999]

There's more in heaven and earth than Redcarmoose has dreamed of in his philosophy

Talk about making fun of sacred cows, or, um pigs, or whatever. . .

They say George Harrison actually helped them with this and Paul McCartney was pretty ticked off about the whole thing.

 

[bigshot]

Black Sabbath is fun, but it is very dumb. So is goo goo ga joob. But nothing is dumber than Yes.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Black Sabbath is fun, but it is very dumb. So is goo goo ga joob. But nothing is dumber than Yes.

It is dumb, but that is what makes it work. It’s actually heavily influenced by jazz. The jazz influences are slighly hidden, but if you know where to look they are there. Probably the most blantant is the breaks, drumming and guitar progression in the first self-titled album. That album marks the very first metal album as well as the first doom metal album.

Zeppelin was also listening to jazz, but I feel Zeppelin pays homages more to early rock & roll.

But the differences between Zeppelin and Sabbath really are polarized. Zeppelin was educated musicianship from well-off families. Zeppelin had four virtuosos and exploited their talent making FM friendly album listening experiences.

Sabbath was from poor working class families and simply worked their way up, knowing how to play their instruments but nothing really groundbreaking. But Sabbath albums had a mood. They were a scary band and really represented an underground flair right from the start. Only now so we figure out, most of their lyrical theme is purely Christian; that Zeppelin was really the occult band.

Again we see Sabbath as the Christian simpletons wearing giant crosses around their necks to ward off evil. With 1972’s Lucifer Rising we see Page going face to face with evil, taking it all to a much more intellectual end. But with Zeppelin it was hidden and not so noticeable; as it truly is in life.

 

[Don Hills]

... There's more in heaven and earth than Redcarmoose has dreamed of in his philosophy

Indeed:

 

[bigshot]

It is dumb, but that is what makes it work.

That's why you shouldn't take it seriously. It's kid music. The musical equivalent of junk food. You just enjoy it for what it is and don't overthink it, because it's got nothing much in it to think about. Honestly, I have a lot more respect for disco music of the 70s than I do heavy metal or art rock. It was honest, not pretentious. And it didn't try to be something it wasn't.

By the way, I hear absolutely no jazz and very little rock n' roll in either Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin. Sabbath is like nursery rhymes sung by a wolf man... "THREEEEE BLIIIINNDD MICEEE! CUT OFF THEIR TAILS WITH A CARVING KNIFE!" And Zeppelin is white boys trying to be a very loud version of an old black blues singer. Given the choice, I'll take the blues over nursery rhymes every time.

That Icelandic version is better than anything Black Sabbath ever did.

Silverears, have you seen the newly restored blu-ray of Montery Pop? Otis Redding kills in that and the sound and picture are great now.

 

[old tech]

It is dumb, but that is what makes it work. It’s actually heavily influenced by jazz. The jazz influences are slighly hidden, but if you know where to look they are there. Probably the most blantant is the breaks, drumming and guitar progression in the first self-titled album. That album marks the very first metal album as well as the first doom metal album.

Zeppelin was also listening to jazz, but I feel Zeppelin pays homages more to early rock & roll.

But the differences between Zeppelin and Sabbath really are polarized. Zeppelin was educated musicianship from well-off families. Zeppelin had four virtuosos and exploited their talent making FM friendly album listening experiences.

Sabbath was from poor working class families and simply worked their way up, knowing how to play their instruments but nothing really groundbreaking. But Sabbath albums had a mood. They were a scary band and really represented an underground flair right from the start. Only now so we figure out, most of their lyrical theme is purely Christian; that Zeppelin was really the occult band.

Again we see Sabbath as the Christian simpletons wearing giant crosses around their necks to ward off evil. With 1972’s Lucifer Rising we see Page going face to face with evil, taking it all to a much more intellectual end. But with Zeppelin it was hidden and not so noticeable; as it truly is in life.

Led Zep 1 and III are very interesting albums, musically speaking.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Led Zep 1 and III are very interesting albums, musically speaking.

I'm not sure how much Les Paul guitar is on Zep 1? Seeing him play live from that era he had a Telecatser with hand painted details. The sound of the guitar is noticeably more high pitched than "Les Paul meaty". Though maybe everyone would agree that Zep one would introduce Pages plan of having the songs all be in contrast to one another in pace and mood. It was the transition from the single to the LP.

But the Zep template was there from the start; the signature drums, Robert Plants voice. Taking early blues and early rock and roll but bringing it to 1969 with musicianship!

http://www.feelnumb.com/2011/01/10/jimmy-pages-1958-fender-dragon-telecaster-guitar/

 

[Cruelhand Luke]

This was one of my absolute favorite Otis Redding songs....and I was nearly apoplectic with hatred for what the Black Crowes did to it....I mean, I HATED it.
....but I was 21 years old and I got over it...

 

[Steve999]

Honestly, I have a lot more respect for disco music of the 70s than I do heavy metal or art rock. It was honest, not pretentious. And it didn't try to be something it wasn't.

And now for something completely different! From Larry Graham, the co-inventor of the slap-bass technique (along with Bootsie Collins)--and the bass player for Sly and the Family Stone!

Inexplicably, this album was actually produced and arranged by an extremely accomplished, world-class jazz musician, Benny Golson, but I don't think anyone would count it among his greatest accomplishments. But it's a lot of fun!!

On a side note, I still remember all of the hate mail that came in when they put Bootsie Collins (the bass player for Parliament-Funkadelic) on the front cover of Guitar Player magazine.

 

[SilverEars]

And now for something completely different! From Larry Graham, the co-inventor of the slap-bass (along with Bootsie Collins)--and the bass player for Sly and the Family Stone!

Inexplicably, this album was actually produced and arranged by a very accomplished jazz musician, Benny Golson, but I don't think anyone would count it among his greatest accomplishments. But it's a lot of fun!!

On a side note, I still remember all of the hate mail that came in when they put Bootsie Collins (the bass player for Parliament-Funkadelic) on the front cover of Guitar Player magazine.

Is this more like soul/funk? The bass guitar reminds me of Victor Wooten. Wooten can really jam! You can just feel the energy from his playing.

What are some real revolutionary disco music?

 

[castleofargh]

That's why you shouldn't take it seriously. It's kid music. The musical equivalent of junk food. You just enjoy it for what it is and don't overthink it, because it's got nothing much in it to think about. Honestly, I have a lot more respect for disco music of the 70s than I do heavy metal or art rock. It was honest, not pretentious. And it didn't try to be something it wasn't...

I like heavy metal! and most other stuff at least partially. I can't get mad about "art rock" but only because I don't have clue what goes into that box. consider me offended in spirit. or that when I'll know enough to feel offended, it will have a retroactive effect going back to right now

And now for something completely different! From Larry Graham, the co-inventor of the slap-bass (along with Bootsie Collins)--and the bass player for Sly and the Family Stone!

Inexplicably, this album was actually produced and arranged by a very accomplished jazz musician, Benny Golson, but I don't think anyone would count it among his greatest accomplishments. But it's a lot of fun!!

On a side note, I still remember all of the hate mail that came in when they put Bootsie Collins (the bass player for Parliament-Funkadelic) on the front cover of Guitar Player magazine.

I thought the Geneva convention prohibited yodeling outside the Alps after the tragedy of Hocus Pocus by Focus that caused thousands of deaths in Karaoke incidents upon its release. or something like that, history is sort of my Achilles elbow.

 

[Redcarmoose]

That's why you shouldn't take it seriously. It's kid music. The musical equivalent of junk food. You just enjoy it for what it is and don't overthink it, because it's got nothing much in it to think about. Honestly, I have a lot more respect for disco music of the 70s than I do heavy metal or art rock. It was honest, not pretentious. And it didn't try to be something it wasn't.

By the way, I hear absolutely no jazz and very little rock n' roll in either Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin. Sabbath is like nursery rhymes sung by a wolf man... "THREEEEE BLIIIINNDD MICEEE! CUT OFF THEIR TAILS WITH A CARVING KNIFE!" And Zeppelin is white boys trying to be a very loud version of an old black blues singer. Given the choice, I'll take the blues over nursery rhymes every time.

That Icelandic version is better than anything Black Sabbath ever did.

Silverears, have you seen the newly restored blu-ray of Montery Pop? Otis Redding kills in that and the sound and picture are great now.

Tony Iommi says they were a Blues and Jazz band before changing to Metal; or Hard Rock as it was known. 3.10 mark.


But there are a bunch of interviews where Iommi states jazz as their influence. Bill Wards signature drum beats are very much jazz.

Don’t know why or how you don’t notice it.