Thanks for that - I was a bit confused with your initial post! Follow ups make sense - I am quite intrigued with how different the N3 will actually sound in the mid range compared to the Z5. I'll know soon enough! The L4 is definitely a consideration because it is does seem the polar opposite, yet retains a DD bass plus tuning seems pretty good as well. It still boggles my mind how much good choice there is in the $200-500 range.
I only mentioned the TC-01 a $49 IEM as it has massive bass in comparison to the L4. I mean the L4 is a DD driver but due to it being only 8mm it’s a very different DD experience than what you have with the Z5 or TC-01. IMO
Someone else I know just purchased the Tripowin TC-01 and The Thieaudio L4. So at under $250 they have two very different IEMs that cover a lot of ground. The TC-01 is more thick.......much like the XBA-Z5 with EDM and the likes. Then for rock and metal where you may need faster pace you get out the L4. Unfortunately though even together they are not exactly the correctness of the Z5. They are emotional and entertaining but maybe not as cohesive natural and complete as the XBA-Z5. But an example would be like hearing the L4 for a couple hours then wanting thickness so you break out the TC-01 heaviness?
I only mentioned the TC-01 a $49 IEM as it has massive bass in comparison to the L4. I mean the L4 is a DD driver but due to it being only 8mm it’s a very different DD experience than what you have with the Z5 or TC-01. IMO
Someone else I know just purchased the Tripowin TC-01 and The Thieaudio L4. So at under $250 they have two very different IEMs that cover a lot of ground. The TC-01 is more thick.......much like the XBA-Z5 with EDM and the likes. Then for rock and metal where you may need faster pace you get out the L4. Unfortunately though even together they are not exactly the correctness of the Z5. They are emotional and entertaining but maybe not as cohesive natural and complete as the XBA-Z5. But an example would be like hearing the L4 for a couple hours then wanting thickness so you break out the TC-01 heaviness?
It's always the reason why we're messed up addicts and need multiple IEMs - our mood and music dictates our preference! The L4 does seem like something I'll be exploring - I don't listen to rock and metal much, but I do need an alternative to the N3s at some point
The 'correctness' and 'cohesive' aspects of the Z5 are highly underrated - and the reason why ultimately I'll want to purchase the Z1R this year!
It's always the reason why we're messed up addicts and need multiple IEMs - our mood and music dictates our preference! The L4 does seem like something I'll be exploring - I don't listen to rock and metal much, but I do need an alternative to the N3s at some point
The 'correctness' and 'cohesive' aspects of the Z5 are highly underrated - and the reason why ultimately I'll want to purchase the Z1R this year!
I go back and forth having many mixed feelings about the Z5. In many ways it’s the first quality bass IEM I think I was truly moved by. Still in the end (even now) I criticize its form and resulting fit issues. If you look at the comparison graphs.........the Z5 and N3 are separated by how close to the target curve the N3 goes as far as mids and lower treble. The graphs are not able to delineate the less-tangibles in bass on both N3 and Z5, yet for us owners......we know. The fact that different tips can awaken the N3 by bringing up midrange and treble adding to the tone (brightness) to become almost mid-centric? Many would never think of the N3 as a midcentric IEM, but for many of us that didn’t like the N3 in the beginning it was maybe due to bass slowness, loss of detail? Bringing up the mids and treble made the N3 clearer maybe? One thing we know is reducing the lower midrange fog due to how all encompassing the N3 low end is resulted in a simply clearer IEM sound. IMO Wide bore tips add to the N3 quality, yet trying to get wide or medium bore tips to help the Z5 never seemed to work. It seems there was a hidden grain in one of the XBA-Z5 BA drivers which normally slept with Sony Hybrid tips. IMO
Also (to me) the included narrow bore Sony Hybrid tips added to this murk of congestion with the N3. As Sony fans, we never questioned Sony and used the included tips, thinking this was how the N3 was.
But opening the N3 mids up we are left with more speed and a generally more likable tone. Still the XBA-Z5 wins out in the bass dept. simply on the XBA-Z5 bass technicalities! And that’s the thing those Z5 bass abilities became the single great first thing I noticed about the IER-Z1R. The IER took the Z5 bass technicalities and took them to world-class levels. The IER also made those small lackluster midrange abilities of the Z5 and moved them more forward. Keep in mind they are still back-set, but better forward as a technicality/tone/tune improvement on the IER?
Just like the graph shows, the N3 and IER share much low end personality in common. But to me the way they do the IER lower midrange is also added improvement. That and of course the IER-Z1R treble. I have no issues hearing the IER as non-cohesive as some have suggested; but it’s also something I never have noticed with hybrids?
Remember too all the 8K peaks are pretty much coupler resonance and not really there. Most info above 10K questionable as well as way far down from hearing sensitivity.
I also correlate those 8K spikes with sibilance. And next to shouty upper mids, sibilance causes me the most fatigue. But the z5 kills it in that department, which is why you can listen to the z5 LOUD for long periods of time.
“I also correlate those 8K spikes with sibilance. And next to shouty upper mids, sibilance causes me the most fatigue. But the z5 kills it in that department, which is why you can listen to the z5 LOUD for long periods of time.”
Yes! Male sibilance is typically 3-7k Hz with female sibilance found typically 5-9k Hz as generally accepted as perceived. Though I think it’s personal for everyone where the hot spots are. With my Sony history typically Sony gear will sound best when it seems to go the other way and sound mid-centric?
Though I think at one point or another we all have kept trying to get mid-detail by continually turning it higher; I have anyway, I know? I probably have that problem the most with the MDR-Z1R?
But if people were looking for IEMs that block outside noise I would say try and find a non-ported IEM with recession in mids and semi-custom shape. That way you can get noise occlusion from the shape and lack of vent, then the frequency tune allows for louder volume outside to block the noise. Funny too, as I know I’m not alone in failed attempts to try and use bright IEMs as noise blockers outside. It simply doesn’t work due to them being loud where the human ear has the most sensitivity in the (speech/survival) mid-frequencies. I’m guessing the noise blocking works due to the more troublesome outside noise being low frequency; like car motors? You simply find luck having an IEM which masks the low end ambient sounds.
Crinacle says ignore the 8K as it’s most likely an artifact of IEM testing on his tests anyway.
But as far as our hearing goes it seems we have been designed to be sensitive in the Concha “shape” amplified areas of the ear which peaks at 6K? The pinna gain has a second bump at 8K? These are the areas we are designed to be sensitive to. IMO
This is my default EQ, sometimes tweaked for specific headphones, but often I just roll with this. Yes I'm a basshead and everything always needs more subbass. And then I always do that -3db dip around 7500 to contain sibilance.
Has anyone found an IEM with a sound signature similar to the Z5? I keep coming back to these since ive never found anything ive remotely liked as much as these, in any price range. It's been almost 5 years since these came out, so I was hoping i'd find something to replace these eventually, but it looks like my path forward is probably the Z1R at this point.
Has anyone found an IEM with a sound signature similar to the Z5? I keep coming back to these since ive never found anything ive remotely liked as much as these, in any price range. It's been almost 5 years since these came out, so I was hoping i'd find something to replace these eventually, but it looks like my path forward is probably the Z1R at this point.
The z1r is the only true upgrade to the z5 that I've heard. Plenty of side-grade options out there, or sets that can do certain things better than the z5, but if you're looking for "what if z5 but better" it's just the z1r.
The closest I have to the z5 is the Final E5000. E5K has a little more elevated bass, while z5 has that boost around 5Khz. But beyond that, the E5000 has really fun bass, and a smooth, non-fatiguing sound. The one catch is that it needs power, more power than the z5. And I suppose some people might find the low-end of the E5000 a little much, but if you love the z5, I don't think you'll have any complaints.
Im still rocking my XBA Z5. I got an Aune B1S class a portable amp. Well that combo is NICE. Highly recommended.
The z5 still competes with anything imo. There is also more detail over 10k than most modern sets.
Wanted to follow up to my earlier post, I finally got my proper 4.4 balanced cable for my Z5 and wanted to compare to my M9
Test tracks:
You Belong With Me - Taylor Swift:
Vicarious - Tool:
Cavatina - John Williams:
The Girl From Ipanema - Frank Sinatra:
Blinded By Light - Final Fantasy 13 soundtrack:
Source: W1MZ
Conclusions:
* M9 is more "open", bigger soundstage / Z5 feels more "compressed"
* M9 is more trebly; Z5 darker
* Z5 bass power, decay, sheer presence still cannot be beat - even when I tried playing around with M9 and EQ settings
* M9 better seal in my ear; more comfortable for longer periods; better relative noise isolation (though it is still not that great overall)
I'll keep both. Z5 strictly for home use. M9 when I might be traveling, on the plane, etc.
I see no reason to spend 4 figures on TOTL IEMs when Z5 is still this good, which I bought slightly used years ago for like $400.
Wanted to follow up to my earlier post, I finally got my proper 4.4 balanced cable for my Z5 and wanted to compare to my M9
Test tracks:
You Belong With Me - Taylor Swift:
Vicarious - Tool:
Cavatina - John Williams:
The Girl From Ipanema - Frank Sinatra:
Blinded By Light - Final Fantasy 13 soundtrack:
Source: W1MZ
Conclusions:
* M9 is more "open", bigger soundstage / Z5 feels more "compressed"
* M9 is more trebly; Z5 darker
* Z5 bass power, decay, sheer presence still cannot be beat - even when I tried playing around with M9 and EQ settings
* M9 better seal in my ear; more comfortable for longer periods; better relative noise isolation (though it is still not that great overall)
I'll keep both. Z5 strictly for home use. M9 when I might be traveling, on the plane, etc.
I see no reason to spend 4 figures on TOTL IEMs when Z5 is still this good, which I bought slightly used years ago for like $400.
The reason is when your Z5 dies - still not over my ones death!
I have the N3s coming but honestly I’ll use this excuse to get the Z1Rs sooner rather than later. They may not have the slam like the Z5s but it’s the ‘logical’ path.
The reason is when your Z5 dies - still not over my ones death!
I have the N3s coming but honestly I’ll use this excuse to get the Z1Rs sooner rather than later. They may not have the slam like the Z5s but it’s the ‘logical’ path.
The thing is that Z5 and Z1R are tuned very differently.
There's something that bugged me with Z1R's mids and lower treble. It's quite noticeable at high listening volume. A dryness that prevents me from enjoying music.
I vastly prefer the older model, and still use it. The Z1R stayed three months, and were exchanged for the A8000, which became personal favorites.
Hi all, I'm looking to make a big upgrade. I've been using an iPhone + lightning dongle + Sennheiser ie40 Pro for a while now, and while I enjoy the detail, its too harsh to listen to for more than an hour. Based on my research, I really like the idea of the Z5s, less fatigue, big soundstage (sound like headphone), good mids and highs. However I've experienced information overload from doing so much research on iems... and due to my lack of experience I'm not quite sure if these could be for me. I listen to mostly singer/songwriter, country, blues rock, pop, and jazz. I also like to listen to a lot of live albums. Would the z5 + zx300 be good for my use case? Been looking at the N3s too.
Would like to add that I am treble sensitive but not overly so, and would be buying the Z5 for ~600 off amazon. Am willing to take a good hard look at other suggestions too. Thank you.
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