Sony Xperia Z3 Audio Quality

[NuckinFutz]

Another quick point, I always use power amp and have for some time. When they implemented direct volume control a while back there was a very noticeable improvement in sound

 

[BenKatz]

I have no problem with any of this, it's your opinion and that is what these forums are about...sharing your experience. What i had issue with was presenting your opinion as fact as I've not seen much to back that up, that is all.

As I've mentioned, I have listened to the z3 and thought it sounded excellent but only listened to the preloaded tracks, and I'm not sure of the quality of these. However i didn't like any if the 'enhancements', I found ask of them to sound artificial. For reference I don't like Dolby headphone for the same reason whereas lots of people do

 
 
Ok, let's back up a little, since you've "not seen much to back that up". 
 
Your only argument are some numbers taken of a site like GSMarena (boy are they a big name), and that's your only "backing up" of the claim that the Z3 sounds better than the M8 as far as all your posts go, yet you still fail to see me backing my claims are.
 
My claims: Z3 sounds better than ip6, m8
Backing up: 1) a famous High End sound oriented review/news site claiming it's in many areas better and leaner ("leaner", if the gsm arena numbers would be real and show the fact that z3's output is noisier, it couldn't be leaner than a less noisy output) than the iP6, which they considered their best mobile device for audio quality
                  2) Black on white technical details such as Z3's much superior integrated DUAL DACs (this should be proof enough once you research and compare the DAC, but oh well) as compared to the M8 and iP6. Don't know the exact DAC iP6 uses, but the mere fact that Z3 is High Res capable and iP6 is not speaks for the DAC's processing power, plus Z3's DSEE HX feature, which is not a artificial sound enhancement like other functions like Clear Audio + and Surround Sound. You can read about it on reviews and Sony's site, it is used in their pro Amps and Receivers
                  3) My personal A/B/C Test with an ip6 plus and m8.
 
Since you haven't even compared them yourself, only listened to the Z3 which you agree sounds very good, and only copy pasted some who knows how-tested numbers from a site like GSMarena, who has backing up to do to keep who's claim? Let's be real.

 

[Whitigir]

I can fully back Benkatz up. The Z3 vs iPhone 5s vs iphone6 vs Iphone6 plus vs Note 4. The Z3 can totally play music Flac or MP3 at a different level. While I am not a hardcore audiophile who works with highend gears, equipments, and less than technical details, specs experience in these regards. My ears and my brain can tell Sound Quality some what, as I love music myself.

The IPhone 6 , 5s, 6+ even the m8 do have better loud speakers, and better volume output. But non of them can play the details, extensions and seperation like the Z3.

I mainly listen to these portable devices without any amp, or external DAC. Why would I ? Because I like the portability, and if anything, I have my stereo setup for home theater uses.

I have been listening to music and MP3 like this for a while, at the least for 10 years. Until the last 3-4 years where bluray and uncompressed music files caught up with me. Then I spent all the time chasing for a good pair of headphones and in ears. Despite many purchases and attempts, I could never get to the level where professional audiophile would tell the differences. They all sound so similar...boomy, flat, or sibilants....

Until now, when I have the Z3, I was pushed to another level. The level that I realized how much important an external DAC and amplifier would be to enjoy these compressed files the way of CD quality.

The conclusion of my ears from these latest devices would be.

Z3 is superior in all music playing aspects, except a super sucky loud speaker pair. Through headphones, it is amazing. Details, extensions, separations, deep bass, punchy, natural production of sound if you have a good pairs of headphone. My favorite two now are IM70 and S-018. They are cheap, IM70 is more organic, yet lacking some mids, while the S-018 has more details but less natural sounding and not as organic. Both are very enjoyable. Using both of these pairs on the other devices beside the Z3, I only have disappointment. I rather use Iphone6 plus, or note4 for screen and other qualities, but my main point is music and phone on the go. Nothing beats the Z3 period.

Yes, I realize I do not need external amp, the Z3 is only gimped by Sony to output half of what it is capable of, but a root will change this. I am waiting on lollipop to root, but for now any headphones with below 16 ohm impedence do very very fine.

Again, I don't speak out of my butts crack and copy any meaningless statements from the webs. I personally experienced all of those stated above devices. I agreed with personal differences, but if you can not hear these differences from Z3 vs others. I doubt all of your creditability towards all other reviews.

 

[NuckinFutz]

Ok, let's back up a little, since you've "not seen much to back that up". 

Your only argument are some numbers taken of a site like GSMarena (boy are they a big name), and that's your only "backing up" of the claim that the Z3 sounds better than the M8 as far as all your posts go, yet you still fail to see me backing my claims are.

My claims: Z3 sounds better than ip6, m8
Backing up: 1) a famous High End sound oriented review/news site claiming it's in many areas better and leaner ("leaner", if the gsm arena numbers would be real and show the fact that z3's output is noisier, it couldn't be leaner than a less noisy output) than the iP6, which they considered their best mobile device for audio quality
                  2) Black on white technical details such as Z3's much superior integrated DUAL DACs (this should be proof enough once you research and compare the DAC, but oh well) as compared to the M8 and iP6. Don't know the exact DAC iP6 uses, but the mere fact that Z3 is High Res capable and iP6 is not speaks for the DAC's processing power, plus Z3's DSEE HX feature, which is not a artificial sound enhancement like other functions like Clear Audio + and Surround Sound. You can read about it on reviews and Sony's site, it is used in their pro Amps and Receivers
                  3) My personal A/B/C Test with an ip6 plus and m8.

Since you haven't even compared them yourself, only listened to the Z3 which you agree sounds very good, and only copy pasted some who knows how-tested numbers from a site like GSMarena, who has backing up to do to keep who's claim? Let's be real.

I have no 'claim' of my own, what am I claiming exactly? I'm impartially looking for my next phone and no interest in a fanboy fight. What I am suggesting is your opinion is just that, opinion. Just because you have an elevated view of yourself does not mean should should represent them as fact.

Plus your 'backing up' consists 1) incorrectly referencing a review who actually prefer the IP6, and you have had to backtrack a little realising your error. 2) Referring to the dual DAC's like this is the only phone to employ this plus I'm almost certain they drive the speakers. 3) Your opinion, which is fine but not fact.

I repeat I have no agenda here, I just want honest opinions and comparisons not bold inaccurate claims of 'fact'. You discredit your own posts this way and endanger this threads credibility as a genuine source of reference.

 

[BenKatz]

I have no 'claim' of my own, what am I claiming exactly? I'm impartially looking for my next phone and no interest in a fanboy fight. What I am suggesting is your opinion is just that, opinion. Just because you have an elevated view of yourself does not mean should should represent them as fact.

Plus your 'backing up' consists 1) incorrectly referencing a review who actually prefer the IP6, and you have had to backtrack a little realising your error. 2) Referring to the dual DAC's like this is the only phone to employ this plus I'm almost certain they drive the speakers. 3) Your opinion, which is fine but not fact.

I repeat I have no agenda here, I just want honest opinions and comparisons not bold inaccurate claims of 'fact'. You discredit your own posts this way and endanger this threads credibility as a genuine source of reference.

 
You seriously want to do this? Because by trying to discredit me with no backing up you come up as a complete troll
 
As i said:
 
1) The review is refference correctly, it states that the Z3 sounds leaner than the iP6, and the sole purpose of me pointing it out (btw, remember when you discredited WhatHIFI? so...now it matters what they said and they're relevant? make up your mind) is that you slapped some obscure numbers from GSMarena that translate into not much in the real world, which among other things stated that the M8 should sound better, when it doesn't
2) I don't want to be rude, but again, be a good sport and at least do a MINIMUM of research about the TFA9890. That statement is so wrong I don't know where to begin, but I'll try. First off, the reason some audio equipment use dual DACs is for them to work in tandem. a DAC is not an AMP (though it has one integrated), so there is no need ever for 2 DAC chips to power two very small front speakers (lol, where did you come up with that?). The same DAC (in every phone) powers both speaker/s and headphones. So your certainty is very wrong my friend, and if you knew at lest something about how a DAC works, you wouldn't even make that assumption. TFA9890 is a mobile system DAC, which you could have found out by just googling it (it powers all audio outputs) and there's no need for 2 powerful mobile DACs to power 2 small loudspeakers (LOL).
3) Again, my opinion is based on first hand testing, which you don't have an opinion on, a review from a site that you first discredited but now apparently you're backtracking on since you're referencing it, and technical data about the DACs used, which is basically the most concrete black on white info to determine which is better.
 
I won't even comment on your last statement,
 
What happened here is we were having a long multi page talk about the Z3s audio quality, and you jumped in, trolling, throwing GSMarena audio numbers on a Head-Fi thread. I think it's pretty clear who's discrediting this discussion and thread.
 
I'd advise you to take this discussion somewhere else, namely on a GSMarena thread, since the numbers you presented are from there, and you clearly are here just to troll since just by having the decency to check the details on the DACs used ALONE, you would have understood the difference in the way the process audio and what they're capable of.
 
But no, you chose to troll on, ignoring concrete fact, and basing your replies on "smart" grammar and bs gsmarena numbers. 

 

[NuckinFutz]

You seriously want to do this? Because by trying to discredit me with no backing up you come up as a complete troll

As i said:

1) The review is refference correctly, it states that the Z3 sounds leaner than the iP6, and the sole purpose of me pointing it out (btw, remember when you discredited WhatHIFI? so...now it matters what they said and they're relevant? make up your mind) is that you slapped some obscure numbers from GSMarena that translate into not much in the real world, which among other things stated that the M8 should sound better, when it doesn't
2) I don't want to be rude, but again, be a good sport and at least do a MINIMUM of research about the TFA9890. That statement is so wrong I don't know where to begin, but I'll try. First off, the reason some audio equipment use dual DACs is for them to work in tandem. a DAC is not an AMP (though it has one integrated), so there is no need ever for 2 DAC chips to power two very small front speakers (lol, where did you come up with that?). The same DAC (in every phone) powers both speaker/s and headphones. So your certainty is very wrong my friend, and if you knew at lest something about how a DAC works, you wouldn't even make that assumption. TFA9890 is a mobile system DAC, which you could have found out by just googling it (it powers all audio outputs) and there's no need for 2 powerful mobile DACs to power 2 small loudspeakers (LOL).
3) Again, my opinion is based on first hand testing, which you don't have an opinion on, a review from a site that you first discredited but now apparently you're backtracking on since you're referencing it, and technical data about the DACs used, which is basically the most concrete black on white info to determine which is better.

I won't even comment on your last statement,

What happened here is we were having a long multi page talk about the Z3s audio quality, and you jumped in, trolling, throwing GSMarena audio numbers on a Head-Fi thread. I think it's pretty clear who's discrediting this discussion and thread.

I'd advise you to take this discussion somewhere else, namely on a GSMarena thread, since the numbers you presented are from there, and you clearly are here just to troll since just by having the decency to check the details on the DACs used ALONE, you would have understood the difference in the way the process audio and what they're capable of.

But no, you chose to troll on, ignoring concrete fact, and basing your replies on "smart" grammar and bs gsmarena numbers. 

Again with the condescending comments. I do electronics for a living so I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.

Regarding the dual DAC/Amps:

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-htc-one/

These are the TFA9887 devices, If you want I can try and find out exactly what the headphone amp is.

Your understanding is quite poor, although DAC's are not AMP's these TFA devices are, and are mono outputs, meaning if you want stereo you need 2 of them.



If you want to discuss like an adult in PM or here we can but please stop with the aggressive and condescending attitude, it's not necessary.

 

[PaulMC2]

I'm not an expert but I am running a z3 with an E18 and various headphones (HD 598's mainly) and what I've found is that I'm not really using the E18 much nowadays I prefer the sound direct from the z3 ... No scientific data to back up why but to me it just sounds more real and better.

Volume is low without the e18 if I really want to pump it out I plug in the e18 and use a set of akg's

 

[BenKatz]

Again with the condescending comments. I do electronics for a living so I have a pretty good idea what I'm talking about.

Regarding the dual DAC/Amps:

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-htc-one/

These are the TFA9887 devices, If you want I can try and find out exactly what the headphone amp is.

Your understanding is quite poor, although DAC's are not AMP's these TFA devices are, and are mono outputs, meaning if you want stereo you need 2 of them.



If you want to discuss like an adult in PM or here we can but please stop with the aggressive and condescending attitude, it's not necessary.

 
 
Indeed I was wrong about the fact that I assumed the DACs worked in tandem, really being 2x mono DACs. I've just read the PDF about the DACs myself. That's my error.
 
However that does not change the essential line of the argument. You jumping in calling my remarks on Z3's quality as wrong, all that based on those GSMarena numbers, me backing up my claim by a personal ear test, a review from (however you consider it) a serious High Fi sound inclined site, and technical details about a DAC, which although I wasn't 100% right about regarding how they function exactly, doesn't negate their quality in the mobile phone audio chip area.
 
Having mentioned all that, you tried to end it by saying that I am somehow degrading this thread/forum by backing up my claims with clearly MORE than a personal opinion, which you chose to ignor, however that doesn't make my statements untrue.
 
Yet you consider my attitude aggressive and condescending when you initially tried to tarnish my posts by calling them degrading to this thread, trying to cast a false light on them, when in reality they were just paralleling your single, copy pasted argument about a bunch of numbers.
 
So I'm gonna do it like this: I've stated as arguments regarding Z3's superior quality clearly over the M8 and according to my ears over the iP6, especially when using the upscaling algorithm ore, more obviously, playing high quality files which the ip6 just can't play due to hardware, arguments which are at least in part backed up by a professional hi fi site.
 
Your arguments were some numbers from GSM arena, and that;s it. You were the one to intervene on this discussion to dismiss my claims.
 
As long as you can't come up with a more relevant and convincing claim for which your experience is different, and you find the M8 and/or IP6 superior to the Z3 in terms of sound quality, your initial intervention which caused all this ruckus was gratuitous and in my eyes might amount to a trolling attempt.
 
But please, back up your claim with something substantial, not copy pasted numbers, or let go of your claim. 

 

[NuckinFutz]

I don't have an 'argument' or a 'claim', I liked what I heard when I listened to the Z3, I only issue I have is with your 'facts'..and now your attitude.

I may well end up getting one, it's probably my top pick right now.

I give up, enjoy your Z3.

 

[Whitigir]

Wait...the Xperia Z2 has one and the only single TFA9890 vs the Z3 with dual chip. How exactly does a single one work in the Z2 if it was only for mono output ?

Paulmc2 took out his e18 due to how realistic the sound quality is playing directly from Z3. I am satisfied with Z3 quality, yet I hear natural and detailed sound as well, and never had I enjoyed this level of music on the iPhone gen x. I was iPhone fan for like a while, until now. Even for portability movie and surfing, I use my iPad air 2 more than my Z3 compact tablet. But I can never stand the sound quality on the air 2. Does it say anything about sound quality ? I even play hearthstone on my Air 2...because on the Z3 it lags and suck....

Why do I have two devices ? Z3 with superior sound quality, unlimited wifi hotspot on T-Mobile unlimited phone call function. iPad air 2 is faster, superior in everything despite having dual cores only. Does this prove how and where Apple is superior ? In a sense, if Apple would just throw in some decent DAC and amp, I would never even considered an android to begin with.

I am also sure the TFA9890 don't just power the loud speakers alone. Because note 4 has a newer intergrated DAC from Qualcomm. It still sounds no where as good as the Z3, neither does Cirrus chips in the iPhone 6 and plus. Can someone who has fully knowledge of these jump in and help out please ?

 

[NuckinFutz]

Wait...the Xperia Z2 has one and the only single TFA9890 vs the Z3 with dual chip. How exactly does a single one work in the Z2 if it was only for mono output ?

Paulmc2 took out his e18 due to how realistic the sound quality is playing directly from Z3. I am satisfied with Z3 quality, yet I hear natural and detailed sound as well, and never had I enjoyed this level of music on the iPhone gen x. I was iPhone fan for like a while, until now. Even for portability movie and surfing, I use my iPad air 2 more than my Z3 compact tablet. But I can never stand the sound quality on the air 2. Does it say anything about sound quality ? I even play hearthstone on my Air 2...because on the Z3 it lags and suck....

Why do I have two devices ? Z3 with superior sound quality, unlimited wifi hotspot on T-Mobile unlimited phone call function. iPad air 2 is faster, superior in everything despite having dual cores only. Does this prove how and where Apple is superior ? In a sense, if Apple would just throw in some decent DAC and amp, I would never even considered an android to begin with.

I am also sure the TFA9890 don't just power the loud speakers alone. Because note 4 has a newer intergrated DAC from Qualcomm. It still sounds no where as good as the Z3, neither does Cirrus chips in the iPhone 6 and plus. Can someone who has fully knowledge of these jump in and help out please ?

If memory serves, and I will go away and check, I think the Z2 was not true stereo from the speakers. So I think they used one device to drive them both, in effect mono, but I will check.

 

[NuckinFutz]

Nope, think I was getting mixed up with the Moto X 2014.

However, just looked at the Z2 teardown on myfixguide and it actually has 2 TFA9890 devices, they just only show you a zoomed image of one of them!

http://www.myfixguide.com/manual/sony-xperia-z2-disassembly/

Here's a bit of head-fi fun, see if you can spot it!

I'll give you a clue, it's not on the same side as the highlighted one.....

 

[Whitigir]

Nope, think I was getting mixed up with the Moto X 2014.

However, just looked at the Z2 teardown on myfixguide and it actually has 2 TFA9890 devices, they just only show you a zoomed image of one of them!

http://www.myfixguide.com/manual/sony-xperia-z2-disassembly/

Here's a bit of head-fi fun, see if you can spot it!

I'll give you a clue, it's not on the same side as the highlighted one.....

Thank you. Then is there some secrect to the Z3 sound quality then ? As Z2 was not praised to be as good, I know the Z2 just received a new update on walkman app to allow playing high res music. I gave it away, and unfortunately I couldn't compare to the z3. I only know the Z3 sounded better when I purchased it.

 

[NuckinFutz]

Thank you. Then is there some secrect to the Z3 sound quality then ? As Z2 was not praised to be as good, I know the Z2 just received a new update on walkman app to allow playing high res music. I gave it away, and unfortunately I couldn't compare to the z3. I only know the Z3 sounded better when I purchased it.

Not telling you until you play my spot the chip game

 

[BenKatz]

Thank you. Then is there some secrect to the Z3 sound quality then ? As Z2 was not praised to be as good, I know the Z2 just received a new update on walkman app to allow playing high res music. I gave it away, and unfortunately I couldn't compare to the z3. I only know the Z3 sounded better when I purchased it.

Don't know either. I tested a Z2 and the output at least was not so powerful. Not necessarily in decibels, it seemd as loud but a bit more muffled, the big difference being bass. It might have more to do with the circuitry or something like that. Also, I'm not sure cos I didn't check it, but does the Z2 have DSEE HX?