[qazrahmani]

i am debating whether to utilize my dt880 600 ohm cans with a teac ah p50 amp with either a xperia z3 or the zx1... any thoughts?

 

[TheNoose]

i am debating whether to utilize my dt880 600 ohm cans with a teac ah p50 amp with either a xperia z3 or the zx1... any thoughts?

I'm sure this has been said before, the zx1 has a significantly better SQ than the Z3, yet the Z3's are arguably the best phone sound of recent times.

 

[N12NJA]

Hi guys - has anyone hooked up a z3 to a high end DAC? If so - did you do it using USB OTG?
 
Just want to check before I make a purchase.
 
Many thanks!

 

[BenKatz]

  Hi guys - has anyone hooked up a z3 to a high end DAC? If so - did you do it using USB OTG?
 
Just want to check before I make a purchase.
 
Many thanks!

I personally have not, however the Z3 has is designed to be connected to a DAC using USB, it even has an option in the sound settings to activate this function.
 
And yes, it's OTG, as it's made to be paired up with portable DAC/AMPs

 

[razorpakk]

I have a Z3 Compact and the Fiio E12a (on the way), any particular setting I should use on the phone?

 

[BenKatz]

  I have a Z3 Compact and the Fiio E12a (on the way), any particular setting I should use on the phone?

Deactivate almost everything. Clear Audio + off, and abs any surround effects off. DSEE HX is the only thing you should keep on. As far as EQ, i'd mostly keep it off. The same could be said about the bass boost option on the Fiio, however those 2 options are very dependent on what kind of headphones you use.

 

[BamBoomBots]

Do you have any source of that regarding the DAC's? I ask this because I don't recognise the positive messages about the Z3's audio quality at all with my Z3 Compact.
 
I used Shure's SE215 directly from the audiojack on top.
 
What I noticed, when using poweramp, was a lot of hiss and even some beeps, while I found the maximum volume output disappointing in comparison to my previous S3 (GT-i9300, the Exynos version with the wolfson DAC). This is so bad it ruins some soft and quiet parts of tracks and songs (Clear example would be the first minute of Parker & Hanson - Gravity, where the volume has to be cranked up to 11/15 in order to just get the music audible above the noise).
 
Now, the audiojack is already broken after two months of using it (despite the noise because I have no other source available), so I can't test any solutions you might offer. But based on my experience, I either have a bad sample, or the Z3 Compact does not have a similar DAC to the normal Z3, if that is as good as this thread claims.

 

[BenKatz]

  Do you have any source of that regarding the DAC's? I ask this because I don't recognise the positive messages about the Z3's audio quality at all with my Z3 Compact.
 
I used Shure's SE215 directly from the audiojack on top.
 
What I noticed, when using poweramp, was a lot of hiss and even some beeps, while I found the maximum volume output disappointing in comparison to my previous S3 (GT-i9300, the Exynos version with the wolfson DAC). This is so bad it ruins some soft and quiet parts of tracks and songs (Clear example would be the first minute of Parker & Hanson - Gravity, where the volume has to be cranked up to 11/15 in order to just get the music audible above the noise).
 
Now, the audiojack is already broken after two months of using it (despite the noise because I have no other source available), so I can't test any solutions you might offer. But based on my experience, I either have a bad sample, or the Z3 Compact does not have a similar DAC to the normal Z3, if that is as good as this thread claims.

Well, friend, first off I can tell you that a thread of people are certainly not all liers. Moreover, whathifi.com, which is one of the biggest online publications for high fi sound (among other stuff), reiterated this claim in their in depth audio review of the z3 (also extended to the z3 compact and z3 tablet, which have the same internals).
 
Now, to address your problem:
 
Firstly, regarding your headset: Have you tried your headset with any other source or any other type of headset with your phone? Shure headphones are known to have problems with certain sources that most other Sennheiser, Sony, etc headphones don't. So you might want to check that first
 
Further more, using poweramp is not advisable since the Walkman app is much better. Now, regarding the hiss, it's either related to the sound files, what I mentioned earlier regarding the headset, or, if not, you simply have a defective Z3 compact. There is no hiss in any z3 i tested, so if I were you and I'd hear a hiss with any product, I'd take it straight back to the shop.
 
Regarding the "low volume output". First off, if your definition of sound quality has anything to do with volume output, you simply don't understand what the characteristics of sound quality are. Most smartphones out there have a bit higher voltage output than the sony smartphones, and that always translates into worse sound quality, because of interference with all the antennas inside the phone (due to bad isolation). Many amateur listeners, that only used their smartphone+bundled crappy ear set can't tell the difference and equate more noise to more quality, which is false.
 
The z3 has the best audio quality in any smartphone. Period. There are expert audiphile reviews (not to be confused with generic android central, or the like) that expertly test the audio quality of certain smartphone that can attest to that. The reason the z3 has less audio voltage output is to not have a noisy connection (nosiy as in frequency deteriorating), like the M8 and Samsung phones have (the iphone has a better conection, but the sound is pretty rough and unrefined when compared to the z3, mostly because of the non high res dac inside). The volume on sony phones CAN be pushed, by rooting and editing a certain file in the root, though I wouldn't advise it, not until there will be a way to root the z3 without unlocking the bootloader at least (doing it otherwise destroys the camera quality).
 
So, in short, Z3 has excellent audio quality for a smartphone (the best one out there), this is attested by professional audiophile sites (such as whathifi.com), it shouldn't have a hiss sound (check headphones with different sources, check other headphones with z3, if hiss still there, change the phone, it's defective), volume output is no problem.
 
Btw, I use a MDR 1A (sony) over ear headphone. It has a 24 ohm impedance (20 ohm on your shure). Less ohm generally means more volume at same level. At max, my large, 40mm drivers headphones output just above what my ears are comfortable with, so I don't recommend higher volume unless you want to start having hearing problems in a few months. 

 

[BamBoomBots]

It is not that I do not trust what you say, but I found it  to be inconsistent with my experiences, so that why I questioned it. It seems to me it would make more sense for Sony as well to keep the audio circuitry in the compact the same as in the big one, but you never know for certain.
 
Yes, I have tested on different sources and in almost all I can hear a slight bit of noise but that is just when there is no music playing (well, my ears are still young and I've noticed I'm more susceptible to high frequency noises than most people of my age, so I might be exaggarating the problem a bit). That's why I suspected the SE215's where not the problem. But I've heard some experience now from somebody with a Z2 and SE215's who had troubles as well. When it's fixed I'll try my AKG Q701's. And I''ve just gotten another excuse to spend money on a new pair of IEM's. In short, SE215 might be the problem, but I'm not sure (so punny

).
 
I'm surprised to hear that Poweramp is worse than the standard app, in the TS it is mentioned to be even better. At least poweramp is superior in usability to me, but I'm willing to give the wlakman app another try.
 
I am however certain the problem is not in the tracks, have heard them on other sources with my SE215's where they sounded just fine. Files are all (maybe 5 exceptions because I couldn't find better) 320kbps MP3, or (more than half) .flac (most 44.1KHz 16bit) files.
 
Of course I don't equate higher volume to better SQ, but I never knew it interfered with the antenna's. It is just something I noticed, but the max volume is probably sufficient for most portably usable headphones. It is no problem for me, to be clear.
 
I will send back my Z3 compact then (the jack has to be fixed anyway) with the quention to check the DAC circuitry. I'll buy and burn some new IEM's ini the meantime.
 
Thanks for the help and info.

 

[BenKatz]

  It is not that I do not trust what you say, but I found it  to be inconsistent with my experiences, so that why I questioned it. It seems to me it would make more sense for Sony as well to keep the audio circuitry in the compact the same as in the big one, but you never know for certain.
 
Yes, I have tested on different sources and in almost all I can hear a slight bit of noise but that is just when there is no music playing (well, my ears are still young and I've noticed I'm more susceptible to high frequency noises than most people of my age, so I might be exaggarating the problem a bit). That's why I suspected the SE215's where not the problem. But I've heard some experience now from somebody with a Z2 and SE215's who had troubles as well. When it's fixed I'll try my AKG Q701's. And I''ve just gotten another excuse to spend money on a new pair of IEM's. In short, SE215 might be the problem, but I'm not sure (so punny

).
 
I'm surprised to hear that Poweramp is worse than the standard app, in the TS it is mentioned to be even better. At least poweramp is superior in usability to me, but I'm willing to give the wlakman app another try.
 
I am however certain the problem is not in the tracks, have heard them on other sources with my SE215's where they sounded just fine. Files are all (maybe 5 exceptions because I couldn't find better) 320kbps MP3, or (more than half) .flac (most 44.1KHz 16bit) files.
 
Of course I don't equate higher volume to better SQ, but I never knew it interfered with the antenna's. It is just something I noticed, but the max volume is probably sufficient for most portably usable headphones. It is no problem for me, to be clear.
 
I will send back my Z3 compact then (the jack has to be fixed anyway) with the quention to check the DAC circuitry. I'll buy and burn some new IEM's ini the meantime.
 
Thanks for the help and info.

 
No problem, as I said, it's a problem with the phone then, my father has a z3 compact and I have a regular z3, and they sound mostly identical.
 
The 2 main reasons why on the Z3/Z2 Walkman is the go to music app are:
 
1) EQ is tailored specifically for the internal DAC, will not distort regardless of setting
 
2) DSEE HX, Sony's proprietary low-res music upscaling (does a nice job with making mp3s sound more clear and open, basically improves soundstage) only works when using the Walkman 

 

[NuckinFutz]

Well, friend, first off I can tell you that a thread of people are certainly not all liers. Moreover, whathifi.com, which is one of the biggest online publications for high fi sound (among other stuff), reiterated this claim in their in depth audio review of the z3 (also extended to the z3 compact and z3 tablet, which have the same internals).

Now, to address your problem:

Firstly, regarding your headset: Have you tried your headset with any other source or any other type of headset with your phone? Shure headphones are known to have problems with certain sources that most other Sennheiser, Sony, etc headphones don't. So you might want to check that first

Further more, using poweramp is not advisable since the Walkman app is much better. Now, regarding the hiss, it's either related to the sound files, what I mentioned earlier regarding the headset, or, if not, you simply have a defective Z3 compact. There is no hiss in any z3 i tested, so if I were you and I'd hear a hiss with any product, I'd take it straight back to the shop.

Regarding the "low volume output". First off, if your definition of sound quality has anything to do with volume output, you simply don't understand what the characteristics of sound quality are. Most smartphones out there have a bit higher voltage output than the sony smartphones, and that always translates into worse sound quality, because of interference with all the antennas inside the phone (due to bad isolation). Many amateur listeners, that only used their smartphone+bundled crappy ear set can't tell the difference and equate more noise to more quality, which is false.

The z3 has the best audio quality in any smartphone. Period. There are expert audiphile reviews (not to be confused with generic android central, or the like) that expertly test the audio quality of certain smartphone that can attest to that. The reason the z3 has less audio voltage output is to not have a noisy connection (nosiy as in frequency deteriorating), like the M8 and Samsung phones have (the iphone has a better conection, but the sound is pretty rough and unrefined when compared to the z3, mostly because of the non high res dac inside). The volume on sony phones CAN be pushed, by rooting and editing a certain file in the root, though I wouldn't advise it, not until there will be a way to root the z3 without unlocking the bootloader at least (doing it otherwise destroys the camera quality).

So, in short, Z3 has excellent audio quality for a smartphone (the best one out there), this is attested by professional audiophile sites (such as whathifi.com), it shouldn't have a hiss sound (check headphones with different sources, check other headphones with z3, if hiss still there, change the phone, it's defective), volume output is no problem.

Btw, I use a MDR 1A (sony) over ear headphone. It has a 24 ohm impedance (20 ohm on your shure). Less ohm generally means more volume at same level. At max, my large, 40mm drivers headphones output just above what my ears are comfortable with, so I don't recommend higher volume unless you want to start having hearing problems in a few months. 

Sorry mate but some of your claims above are wildly inaccurate.

Firstly I would hardly call Whathifi review of the audio 'in depth', it's purely a subjective opinion without measurements and even they mention the lack of volume and lean sounding.

Secondly, higher voltage does not always relate into worse sound quality at all and I've no idea where you get this idea from. If a signal is noisy it's due to picking up nearly interference due to poor circuit design, little else.

Thirdly, the M8, iphone, and indeed the original One, all measure with not only far superior voltage output but also significantly less distortion levels according to GSMarena measurements

+0.29, -0.10 -85.7 85.7 0.035 0.064 -50.8 (Z3)
+0.04, -0.08 -94.9 93.9 0.0014 0.018 -79.7 (M8)
+0.11, -0.06 -93.8 93.8 0.0022 0.099 -65.1 (IP6)

Now I'm not saying these differences can even be easily heard by most people, if at all, but in the same way I don't understand how you can state the Z3 is categorically better. I'm not posting this to start an argument and I'm not a fanboy of any brand, I'll use whatever I consider best at any given time. But if you are going to make such claims there should be some evidence to back it up.

I did get to listen to the Z3 a couple of weeks back and was very happy with the quality, admittedly I was only listening to the sample files on the phone through my headphones but they sounded excellent. But, again, the volume was a little too low to allow me to use replaygain in the way I would like, it was louder than the Z1C I had for sure.

 

[BenKatz]

Sorry mate but some of your claims above are wildly inaccurate.

Firstly I would hardly call Whathifi review of the audio 'in depth', it's purely a subjective opinion without measurements and even they mention the lack of volume and lean sounding.

Secondly, higher voltage does not always relate into worse sound quality at all and I've no idea where you get this idea from. If a signal is noisy it's due to picking up nearly interference due to poor circuit design, little else.

Thirdly, the M8, iphone, and indeed the original One, all measure with not only far superior voltage output but also significantly less distortion levels according to GSMarena measurements

+0.29, -0.10 -85.7 85.7 0.035 0.064 -50.8 (Z3)
+0.04, -0.08 -94.9 93.9 0.0014 0.018 -79.7 (M8)
+0.11, -0.06 -93.8 93.8 0.0022 0.099 -65.1 (IP6)

Now I'm not saying these differences can even be easily heard by most people, if at all, but in the same way I don't understand how you can state the Z3 is categorically better. I'm not posting this to start an argument and I'm not a fanboy of any brand, I'll use whatever I consider best at any given time. But if you are going to make such claims there should be some evidence to back it up.

I did get to listen to the Z3 a couple of weeks back and was very happy with the quality, admittedly I was only listening to the sample files on the phone through my headphones but they sounded excellent. But, again, the volume was a little too low to allow me to use replaygain in the way I would like, it was louder than the Z1C I had for sure.

 
 
Ok mate,
 
Firstly I don't know what your issue is with WhatHiFi, but they are one of the few publications out there that constantly review high end audio equipment, hence the value in their opinion when it comes to sound quality. Also, while they complain about low volume, which is a subjective opinion and also has a lot to do with what headphones one use, unlike whit you said about them not being lean, they say the EXACT OPPOSITE, that it sounds leaner than the iPhone 6 (and other phones).
 
Secondly, the GSMarena measurements are irrelevant. They only state some numbers that speak about output but thats not even half of the picture when it comes to sound quality, and doesn't say much about how a device handles sound. The only clear evidence (because besides the GSMarena measurements, i challenge you to show me a review done by at least semi-audiophiles that states that the M8 sounds better) is a (very clear) personal a/b/c i've done with my z3, and my friend's ip6 plus and m8. I used a 16 bit FLAC file (converted it to ALAC for the ip6 plus) of Tensnake's Good enough to keep. While no one should ever complain about how the song sounds on the ip6 and m8, it sounded significantly (and i'm not exaggerating, first do the comparison yourself and then comment) boxy-er (closer, less sound/instrument separation, and harsher) on the ip6 and m8 than Z3 laid-back, open sound where frequencies seemed to be well defined and separated, especially in areas where therea are multiple mid and low electronic sounds playing at once. So that's why I say that GSM arena (as if they've got even a word to say when it comes to audio quality experience) mean nothing but voltage numbers when it comes to sound quality.
 
So while you ask me to give you evidence, all you show me are some numbers presented by a site I personally go rarely for advice, as i find their reviews (although very in depth), often erroneous on many devices. 
 
And since we're at evidence, while I don't know exactly what specific DAC the ip6 uses, m8 uses Snapdragon's integrated dac, while the z3 uses 2 dedicated TFA9890 chips, with a combined peak frequency reproduction of 96khz. While it's mostly irrelevant due to the fact that you can't hear that far, please search their specifications and then compare it with the low res DAC Snapdragon bundles on their 800 and 801 chips. With that in mind, do a comparison with your own ears, and if you can tell the difference between high volume, and clarity, sound separating, soundstage, than you'll end up coming to my conclusion.
 
As a final note, all in all the Z3 is capable, unlike the m8 and ip6 to handle 24bit FLACS, which by themselves sound better than any mp3 or 16bit flac. (24 bit flac has about 9600kbs rate, 16 bit flac 1120 and mp3 max out at 320). So with that fact alone you one can say that the Z3 sounds better, since you can play much (9x times) higher resolution files on it, natively without compression. Also, the Z3 has sony's DSEE HX audio upscaling algorithm, and just test an mp3 (works best with these) with the setting on and off, and you'll see a big difference, especially when testing an mp3 with upscaling on compared with the same mp3 on another phone.
 
Cheers.

 

[NuckinFutz]

Ok mate,

Firstly I don't know what your issue is with WhatHiFi, but they are one of the few publications out there that constantly review high end audio equipment, hence the value in their opinion when it comes to sound quality. Also, while they complain about low volume, which is a subjective opinion and also has a lot to do with what headphones one use, unlike whit you said about them not being lean, they say the EXACT OPPOSITE, that it sounds leaner than the iPhone 6 (and other phones).

Secondly, the GSMarena measurements are irrelevant. They only state some numbers that speak about output but thats not even half of the picture when it comes to sound quality, and doesn't say much about how a device handles sound. The only clear evidence (because besides the GSMarena measurements, i challenge you to show me a review done by at least semi-audiophiles that states that the M8 sounds better) is a (very clear) personal a/b/c i've done with my z3, and my friend's ip6 plus and m8. I used a 16 bit FLAC file (converted it to ALAC for the ip6 plus) of Tensnake's Good enough to keep. While no one should ever complain about how the song sounds on the ip6 and m8, it sounded significantly (and i'm not exaggerating, first do the comparison yourself and then comment) boxy-er (closer, less sound/instrument separation, and harsher) on the ip6 and m8 than Z3 laid-back, open sound where frequencies seemed to be well defined and separated, especially in areas where therea are multiple mid and low electronic sounds playing at once. So that's why I say that GSM arena (as if they've got even a word to say when it comes to audio quality experience) mean nothing but voltage numbers when it comes to sound quality.

So while you ask me to give you evidence, all you show me are some numbers presented by a site I personally go rarely for advice, as i find their reviews (although very in depth), often erroneous on many devices. 

And since we're at evidence, while I don't know exactly what specific DAC the ip6 uses, m8 uses Snapdragon's integrated dac, while the z3 uses 2 dedicated TFA9890 chips, with a combined peak frequency reproduction of 96khz. While it's mostly irrelevant due to the fact that you can't hear that far, please search their specifications and then compare it with the low res DAC Snapdragon bundles on their 800 and 801 chips. With that in mind, do a comparison with your own ears, and if you can tell the difference between high volume, and clarity, sound separating, soundstage, than you'll end up coming to my conclusion.

As a final note, all in all the Z3 is capable, unlike the m8 and ip6 to handle 24bit FLACS, which by themselves sound better than any mp3 or 16bit flac. (24 bit flac has about 9600kbs rate, 16 bit flac 1120 and mp3 max out at 320). So with that fact alone you one can say that the Z3 sounds better, since you can play much (9x times) higher resolution files on it, natively without compression. Also, the Z3 has sony's DSEE HX audio upscaling algorithm, and just test an mp3 (works best with these) with the setting on and off, and you'll see a big difference, especially when testing an mp3 with upscaling on compared with the same mp3 on another phone.

Cheers.

That is what I said, they state is sounds leaner:

"It’s also a slightly leaner character than the iPhone 6 or Moto X, the former still tops our pick of audio in a smartphone, but it comes close when it comes to detail levels and dynamic punch"

Lean in itself could be preferable depending on your tastes.

Measurements are never irrelevant, if they are I need to find a new job. They are part of a larger picture, in the same way you talk about the DAC...it's part of a larger circuit, there are other factors that affect SQ other than purely the components used.

Enjoy your Z3

 

[BenKatz]

That is what I said, they state is sounds leaner:

"It’s also a slightly leaner character than the iPhone 6 or Moto X, the former still tops our pick of audio in a smartphone, but it comes close when it comes to detail levels and dynamic punch"

Lean in itself could be preferable depending on your tastes.

Measurements are never irrelevant, if they are I need to find a new job. They are part of a larger picture, in the same way you talk about the DAC...it's part of a larger circuit, there are other factors that affect SQ other than purely the components used.

Enjoy your Z3

 
I didn't say measurements are irrelevant in GENERAL, but i've listened and compared it to the iphone 6 plus and M8, and while the iphone 6 plus is close, sounds louder but less "open" , the Z3 is hands down better, quality-wise (soundstage, separation, bass tightness) than the M8. The M8 is only louder. I invite you to a/b test it and I'm sure you will come to the same conclusion. Add that up with the fac that the Z3 can play higher quality files and upscale low quality ones, which in itself makes it sound better, listen to it, compare it, and see for yourself then how much these claimed GSMarena measurements (in case they are even done correctly, which you might come to question when you hear the difference) matter in this particular case.

 

[NuckinFutz]

I didn't say measurements are irrelevant in GENERAL, but i've listened and compared it to the iphone 6 plus and M8, and while the iphone 6 plus is close, sounds louder but less "open" , the Z3 is hands down better, quality-wise (soundstage, separation, bass tightness) than the M8. The M8 is only louder. I invite you to a/b test it and I'm sure you will come to the same conclusion. Add that up with the fac that the Z3 can play higher quality files and upscale low quality ones, which in itself makes it sound better, listen to it, compare it, and see for yourself then how much these claimed GSMarena measurements (in case they are even done correctly, which you might come to question when you hear the difference) matter in this particular case.

I have no problem with any of this, it's your opinion and that is what these forums are about...sharing your experience. What i had issue with was presenting your opinion as fact as I've not seen much to back that up, that is all.

As I've mentioned, I have listened to the z3 and thought it sounded excellent but only listened to the preloaded tracks, and I'm not sure of the quality of these. However i didn't like any if the 'enhancements', I found ask of them to sound artificial. For reference I don't like Dolby headphone for the same reason whereas lots of people do