SONY R10- Is cult statis deserved- or not??

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbhifi Sovkiller- Interesting link. If flat frequency response with headpones is a physical impossiblity- due to the ear structure- does one then disregard obvious frequency anomolies in a headphone or other component because a the flat absolute is unattainable?? That makes no sense!! The only thing we CAN achieve is the PERCEPTION of flat response. I perceive the R10s to have annomolies in their bass response as compared to the 650s. Are the 650s more flat than the R10s? I suppose it doesn't matter, but one's PERCEPTION of that area of music reproduction DOES MATTER.

That link is just a mention of the pehnomena, try to find out, if you find it interesting of course, it is something related only with the headphone experience, please I'm not deniying this or that preference, just exposing the theme, as you mentioned the flat response, in speakers is completelly different, that is why trying to make one headphone to sound tortilla flat as if it were an speaker, is not the right approach, in order to be perceived flat by our ears, the heaphones must follow this curve more or less....Not sure what heapdhone will be closer, so not sure which will be more accurate, but just do not follow a flat sound with headphones, or you will never get the right sound to your ears.....if the R-10 or the HD650 do it for you is not the point here.....

For me the HD650 sounded extremelly dull, not flat, the ones considered as more neutral PS-1 ans HP-1000 were same as dull and IMO bass bloated that day, it could be due synergy, but the Melos is good for them, so I don't know and maybe is a matter fo prefference, but when I say dull is just rolled off and lacking of details in comparison with others....

 

[fbhifi]

I'm sitting here cruising Headfi listening to the 650 / Cardas set-up. Rest of system- Meitner CDSD, Meitner DCC2, Singlepower Supra /highly upgraded, Jena Labs Pathfinder IC, Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Anaconda VXa, VX PCs.

I'm listening to Patricia Barber "Companion" SACD. What I'm hearing is utterly breathtaking!!! Don't beat on the 650s too hard- this system is really delivering the goods.

Happy Listening

 

[TimSchirmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumley Dunno about the G08 being a 'dulling, rather tahn a sharpening, component, it sure is with my home rig... That said, I've owned the R10s, and auditioned them with a LOT of different high-end sources and amps; they don't deliver the way I expect a HUGELY overpriced and overrated set of cans to, including A/B 'ing the R10s and my Senn 650/Cardas, both in balanced and unbalanced configs, from a L3 modded Music Hall CD 25 through a Blockhead w/SA's and a Gilmore Dynamic Reference... The R10s' rep's kinda like the ref said, while the fighting hockey players arged around him in 'Slap Shot', '...too much, too soon..."

Yeah i know what you mean. Dynamic-can-wise i'm a bigger fan of the grado HP-1000's.

However the sony SCD-1, EAR HP4 and R10's were quite a treat when i heard them. They just didn't work as well in any of the other rigs i listened to them in.

I wouldn't be suprised if it were some sort of silly sony synergy thing.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus Yes, there is an R10 cult, but we're not going to tell you what the secret handshake is.

Thank you for NOT sharing that information. I have a pretty good idea what it is like and I dont want to know any more about that. You geezers and your secret cabals can keep your dirty secrets and rituals

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbhifi I'm sitting here cruising Headfi listening to the 650 / Cardas set-up. Rest of system- Meitner CDSD, Meitner DCC2, Singlepower Supra /highly upgraded, Jena Labs Pathfinder IC, Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Anaconda VXa, VX PCs. I'm listening to Patricia Barber "Companion" SACD. What I'm hearing is utterly breathtaking!!! Don't beat on the 650s too hard- this system is really delivering the goods. Happy Listening

IMO if you hook any other headphone there is hard to imagine a different bliss, enjoy it man, very good setup BTW....Even though I would choose another headphone instead, but again this is just more a matter of prefference....but this system will make any headphone sing....

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

So, which one did you enjoy more: the R10s or the HD650s? You sound like some kind of computer instead of a human-being who listens to and enjoys music.

 

[nierika]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfrenchman27 So, which one did you enjoy more: the R10s or the HD650s? You sound like some kind of computer instead of a human-being who listens to and enjoys music.

Maybe you should re-read the 2nd to last paragraph and avoid making some jacka__ statement next time? I'm sure he can't listen to and enjoy music nearly as well as you do.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller I don't even consider the HD650 at the same level of others like CD3000 or K-1000

LOL

I wonder what is next. Koss KSC-35 is better than HD-650?

Stanton DJ2000 is better than Sennheiser Orpheus?

The HD-650 is a VERY capable headphone and requires a good amplifier. Give it a Rudistor RP5 / RP6 and you will realize what they can do. I rate it 2nd best headphone in the world even though I am currently having a love affair with a certain Alessandro MS2.

That said - is the R10 for everyone? No...I think it is a good headphone but this is partly because of my expectations of it. I think it is an underperformer for its price...it is probably worth $500 sonically.

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fbhifi Recently spent an afternoon listening to R10s, CD3000, 650/Cardas. Meridian 508.20 and Singlepower Supra (current model w/ multiple upgrades) and a current model Singlepower Maestro. I had very high expectations for the R10s and was more than willing to be completely carried away by their presentation. I'm a newbie here, but have been a very active participant in the high-end 2 channel speaker based audiophile game for 15 + years. As a result, I think a have a fairly clear understanding of smooth, flat, frequency response and good extension at the frequency extremes. These characteristics are highly sought after in the speaker based world and most audiophiles consider these characteristics ESSENTIAL in trying to correctly duplicate the musical material on the disc you are spinning. So, I suppose, I've brought these preconceptions to the headphone world- which seems rational and reasonable. In my above audition, I tried to eliminate front-end and amplifier shortcomings from the equation by using some of the finest black boxes available today. So all thats left to evaluate are the cans. In terms of satisfying the above noted objectives of smooth, flat, frequency response with good extension in the bass and treble- The SENN. 650 / CARDAS combo is the clearly superior set-up. Great tight, reasonably extended bass response, with smooth FLAT frequency response up thru the (again) reasonably extended highs. I feel that FLAT FREQUNCY RESPONSE is CRITICAL to faithfully reproducing the musical event. Peaks and Valleys, Bloats and Leanness all detract from the performance. These characteristics may be entertaining, but I think a knowledgeable listener will grow tired of them, over time. SONY R10- Very seductive tonal quality thru-out alot of the frequency range. The mids on up were smooth, warm and nicely bloomy, with-out deviating TOO far from flat response. There seemed to be a general and very PLEASANT Honey Colored coating to the sound. Some would call it a tubey quality. I, BTW, prefer clean tube amps to solid state. The BASS SUCKED!! It was ill defined, very bloaty and lacked decent extension and slam. In terms of slam- it was like hitting a baseball with tuna instead of a bat!! My focus was drawn away from the music by this miserable bass response. I know that the R10 has near cult status among very knowlegeable Headfiers. and that's why I ask my question in this forum. I was told by the person who shared his time and equipment with me, for the above listening session, that with the R10s you need to, essentially, unlearn what you've grown accustomed to responding to and just listen to them for a week or two- at which time you'll be unable or unwilling to put on any other headphone. That comment seems to support the CULT status aspect of these cans. Maybe there's soom kind of subliminal message reproduction these cans are transmitting to indoctrinate new listeners into the fold. In defense of the R10s- I really did like the general sonic signiture, ALOT. With the bass problem corrected- the R10s would probably be my choice over the 650 / Cardas combo, even considering the VAST difference in price. But at this point- I can't get past the bass response. I'd value the comments of all you, well seasoned, Headfiers. If I'm missing something, on the R100s- I'd like to know.

This is a well write experience of the R10 as I also had in the past. These words describe objectively the limits of the great R10. In terms of accuracy of reproduction the R10 is not the first (and even the second) headphones today.

Just my two cents...

Best!
Nicola

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik In terms of accuracy of reproduction the R10 is not the first (and even the second) headphones today.

And I can safely assume that the best headphones in your order would be :-

1 - Qualia
2 - Omega 2
3 - Sony R10
4 - AT L3000
5 - AT W2002
6 - HD-650 / PS-1

 

[Tuberoller]

Well,they do derserve "Cult" status but that is not a real measure of how good or bad they might be. Look at some of the stuff that you find popular among die-hard fans. I'm talking movies,books and yes, even audio gear. I'll likely eventually buy R10s but I doubt I'd ever call them reference quality or make them my main phones. They sound great to me but they certainly have a strong signature and do things their own way.

 

[NightStalker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari And I can safely assume that the best headphones in your order would be :- 1 - Qualia 2 - Omega 2 3 - Sony R10 4 - AT L3000 5 - AT W2002 6 - HD-650 / PS-1

What about the KC-35

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller Well,they do derserve "Cult" status but that is not a real measure of how good or bad they might be. Look at some of the stuff that you find popular among die-hard fans. I'm talking movies,books and yes, even audio gear. I'll likely eventually buy R10s but I doubt I'd ever call them reference quality or make them my main phones. They sound great to me but they certainly have a strong signature and do things their own way.

Agree!

Best!
Nicola

 

[Nik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari And I can safely assume that the best headphones in your order would be :- 1 - Qualia 2 - Omega 2 3 - Sony R10 4 - AT L3000 5 - AT W2002 6 - HD-650 / PS-1

I never had the L3000.

1 Qualia (+ RP010)
2 Omega (+ Egmont Reference)
at the third there are alot of cans: R10, HD 650, RS1, PS1
4 W2002

Best!
Nicola

 

[kunwar]

I know what the handshake is.
The steps are as follows:

1) Relax and purge the mind of all evil Sony Thoughts. Leave the rest behind
2) Now stand on the head (SIRASASANA - proper yoga posture name) and wiggle the toes on your feet to get rid of any constrictions or aches.
3) Complete the yoga posture and come back to normal standing position.
4) Now shake hands and burp at the same time making sure that no one else sees the secret wink that the R-10 club members give each other.
5) Relax and drink Beer