SONY NWZ-A10 Series
Apr 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM Post #4,291 of 7,541
Whoops, I don't want to open a can of worms here. I bought an iBasso d-zero mk2 hoping to have an obvious improvement using the OTG, over the headphone out with iems on my Xperia Z3 compact tablet. I understand it's a low end amp/dac, but I was expecting a bit more. I'm not saying it's not a great product - I just didn't feel I got my money's worth of improvement. I am quite impressed with the SQ of the Z3 tablet, and the A15 is a noticeable step up from that.
 
Apr 22, 2015 at 11:09 PM Post #4,292 of 7,541
Whoops, I don't want to open a can of worms here. I bought an iBasso d-zero mk2 hoping to have an obvious improvement using the OTG, over the headphone out with iems on my Xperia Z3 compact tablet. I understand it's a low end amp/dac, but I was expecting a bit more. I'm not saying it's not a great product - I just didn't feel I got my money's worth of improvement. I am quite impressed with the SQ of the Z3 tablet, and the A15 is a noticeable step up from that.


I was thinking an Oppo HA-2
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Apr 23, 2015 at 2:25 AM Post #4,293 of 7,541
Whoops, I don't want to open a can of worms here. I bought an iBasso d-zero mk2 hoping to have an obvious improvement using the OTG, over the headphone out with iems on my Xperia Z3 compact tablet. I understand it's a low end amp/dac, but I was expecting a bit more. I'm not saying it's not a great product - I just didn't feel I got my money's worth of improvement. I am quite impressed with the SQ of the Z3 tablet, and the A15 is a noticeable step up from that.


I don't think you will ever get your money's worth out of amps or DACs. The improvements while no doubt there are usually small ones.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 3:28 AM Post #4,295 of 7,541
Whoops, I don't want to open a can of worms here. I bought an iBasso d-zero mk2 hoping to have an obvious improvement using the OTG, over the headphone out with iems on my Xperia Z3 compact tablet. I understand it's a low end amp/dac, but I was expecting a bit more. I'm not saying it's not a great product - I just didn't feel I got my money's worth of improvement. I am quite impressed with the SQ of the Z3 tablet, and the A15 is a noticeable step up from that.


it will always depend on the headphone, talking about sound quality without having the headphone or IEM in mind is a waste of time and money. amps don't do magic, they just try to provide enough current and volts.
but even then, it's a bit like sport. the average guy will always get crushed by the one that has massive training. but between all the professionals, the differences start to grow smaller. because they all reach a point that is the limit of the tech and human body.
it's the same in audio, and each time you get a night&day difference, you can be pretty sure that the device is a cheater and doesn't actually sound anything like the original signal ^_^.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 3:30 AM Post #4,296 of 7,541
Provided your headphones are being adquately driven, which is the thing with the A10- like with my ATH-IM02 I'd say it sounds noticably better than any other source I've heard, but even though all of my headphones are realtively easy to drive portables, some sound better with even my old Clip. Probably worth keeping that iBasso amp around in case of some funky cans.
 
Seems like they would be obviously superior if only because of their amps, but I guess you could compare Centrance or iFi DAC to walkman by driving walkman line out through their amp section? though a lot of people are saying the A10 line out is pretty weak so even that might not really be a proper comparison.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 3:45 AM Post #4,298 of 7,541
but even then, it's a bit like sport. the average guy will always get crushed by the one that has massive training. but between all the professionals, the differences start to grow smaller. because they all reach a point that is the limit of the tech and human body.

That's a good analogy, I think.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 4:13 AM Post #4,299 of 7,541
   
Oh you are pairing it with IM02? I was thinking of the IM03 as I heard they are more friendly to high output impedance than the IM02?

Yeah. I haven't noticed any issues with the A17, I prefer them with it to Clip+, with <1ohm output impedance. I think on the big review thread earfonia mentioned that they are brighter at higher impedances. It has been a while since I did direct comparison, and I don't remember them seeming particularly brighter with the A17, but then again my listening preference also leans that way.
 
Still, the 02 has 36-ohm impedance and the A10 is something like 3-ohm, which falls within the "1/8th" rule of thumb... though I don't know much about that stuff.

For me the main downside is that they pick up on the hiss- I've never noticed it while music is playing, but I still cant forget that it's there
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Apr 23, 2015 at 4:58 AM Post #4,300 of 7,541
  Yeah. I haven't noticed any issues with the A17, I prefer them with it to Clip+, with <1ohm output impedance. I think on the big review thread earfonia mentioned that they are brighter at higher impedances. It has been a while since I did direct comparison, and I don't remember them seeming particularly brighter with the A17, but then again my listening preference also leans that way.
 
Still, the 02 has 36-ohm impedance and the A10 is something like 3-ohm, which falls within the "1/8th" rule of thumb... though I don't know much about that stuff.

For me the main downside is that they pick up on the hiss- I've never noticed it while music is playing, but I still cant forget that it's there
blink.gif
 

ok, as long as I like the sound I don't care about any rules or measurements or what people. But I tried somewhen the IM03 on my A17 and I liked it. Some people still telling me 
with the 4 OHm output impedance I am limited to dynamic or SingleBA IEMs or I have to use a portable amp.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 7:31 AM Post #4,302 of 7,541
 
   
Oh you are pairing it with IM02? I was thinking of the IM03 as I heard they are more friendly to high output impedance than the IM02?

Yeah. I haven't noticed any issues with the A17, I prefer them with it to Clip+, with <1ohm output impedance. I think on the big review thread earfonia mentioned that they are brighter at higher impedances. It has been a while since I did direct comparison, and I don't remember them seeming particularly brighter with the A17, but then again my listening preference also leans that way.
 
Still, the 02 has 36-ohm impedance and the A10 is something like 3-ohm, which falls within the "1/8th" rule of thumb... though I don't know much about that stuff.

For me the main downside is that they pick up on the hiss- I've never noticed it while music is playing, but I still cant forget that it's there
blink.gif
 

http://en.goldenears.net/49122  at the bottom you have an impedance graph(impedance being the bottom line), as expected the official impedance is the value at 1khz and nothing more.
but don't get scared by the shape of the impedance curve, as soon as you're above the 1/8th ratio, you kow that you'll never get above a 1db difference whatever the value, so it almost doesn't matter.
here with the A17(4ohm), the IM02 can expect to lose about 0.7db in all the low end, and get about +0.5db at 7khz. that compared to a 1ohm clip+. really not as dramatic as the graph might make it look. and as always, some might actually prefer the sound into higher impedance sources, that's a matter of personal taste.
 
now as far as the source itself is concerned, you're also helping it when you try to respect at least 1/8 ratio for impedance, so while it doesn't always matter, when you can, try to follow up on that rule. and as soon as it's a BA driver or a multidriver, you may want to try and find out how low the impedance curve can go.
 
 
 
ok, as long as I like the sound I don't care about any rules or measurements or what people. But I tried somewhen the IM03 on my A17 and I liked it. Some people still telling me  with the 4 OHm output impedance I am limited to dynamic or SingleBA IEMs or I have to use a portable amp.

you're never limited to anything, as I say above, it's more of a simplified rule for when you don't know enough about the IEM specs. dynamic drivers tend to usually have a relatively flat impedance curve so the signature change will be limited whatever the source's impedance. same for single BA drivers, they usually have impedance that rises like mad in the trebles, but they tend to not have much trebles after 11 or 12khz so you won't hear a lot of change in many instances.
on the other hand a multidriver will always have some impedance wobbling so the signature may or may not change a lot depending on the source's impedance, and the change often doesn't go the pleasant way.
as long as you can listen to the combo and like the result, you obviously don't have to care about all that. but you get piece of mind by following those rules when you can't listen.
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 8:24 AM Post #4,303 of 7,541
ok, I will give the IM02 then a try maybe next time when testing. Luckily one of the local store has the whole range IM01 to IM04 and CKR9 and CKR10 available for trying.
So far I believed I will have a final shootout between the IM03 and the CKR9. (based on my previous impressions)
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 8:38 AM Post #4,304 of 7,541
   
With which IEMs or headphones?

Anything but high impedence headphones assuming your original source is high quality like the A15 (if not don't even bother at all)
 
Obviously something like the A15 if I really wanted to run my 250ohm headphones off it, which I dont,  an amp is not just a small improvement but essential.A matter of power.I think Ive given my opinions right or wrong on that one already. I just use easy to drive earphones/headphones with this unit, unamped. Zero benefit for me using my amp with those. The A15 sounds as good as my amp.
 
The point I was making its law of diminishing returns. If I had spent £550 (or 3 times the value of the walkman itself) on this Centrance thingy then I would want a 'rather large improvement' or convince myself that is what I'm hearing. As to whether that offers good value I suppose its up to the person with the money,  Just not for me.
 
My (very) high quality (in every way) Marantz micro hifi plus some decent speakers cost considerably less than that. For that you get 2 50w (yes 2) amplifiers. a cd player, an FM radio, a digital radio and a very good headphone output. New versions trade quality for streaming functions.You could put together a half decent seperates system for the money. Admitedly not very pocketable, just using an example of what other items cost in the audio world in relation to headphone amps and dacs.
 
Benninzorjp was questioning the value of his amp and I think most of them are of questionable value being overpriced in general. I you have the money, the need for that extra 5-10% of improvement at any cost and value is of little concern then go for it I suppose. Just go straight to a Chord Hugo though. You'll save money and time in the long run. 
 
Take it all with a pinch of salt
 
Apr 23, 2015 at 10:26 AM Post #4,305 of 7,541

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