[nanaholic]

  Then what is this part? ...着実な利益計上を求める領域と定義している。

 
From the full sentence - for their "steady revenue", it is defined as not making large investment and to seek steady profits.  So nothing about increasing margins.  

 

[harmonix]

  収益 is not margin/profit but revenue.  They are saying they want to transform the company into one which aims for high revenue instead of high market share.

I stand corrected (see earlier post) - yes increased margins is incorrect.
 
On the other hand there is nothing in the sentence about "high revenue" or "market share"?

 

[Mython]

As a courtesy, I have deleted my post relating to your translation, harmonix.
 
However, I stand by the remarks in my subsequent post.
 
One only has to look at the huge price increase of the ZX2, in relation to the ZX1, to see there has been a very substantial increase in profit margin.
 
With complete respect to everyone here, if anyone believes that a few fancy capacitors and a bit of gold-plated copper really justifies such a huge price increase, they're being rather naive.
 
 
 
I find it quite amazing that so many large companies fail to understand the most basic facets of the way this universe operates.What goes around comes around. Grasping at fatter profit margins is a very short-sighted approach, if longterm business success is one's goal, because it is an imbalanced equation which cannot function indefinitely, and may eventually lead to catastrophic failure.
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony
 

 Despite some successes, the company faced continued struggles in the mid- to late-2000s.^[14] It became known for its stagnancy, with a fading brand name.^[14]

 
 
I believe that Sony could sell the ZX2 at approximately 40-50% less, and, over the duration of the product life-cycle, make more profit, but in a balanced way that benefits both them and the customers on whom the business relies for its survival. The company has a legitimate right to earn a profit, but the company literally cannot exist without the customers, so the customers' legitimate right to a good value-for-money product should be treated with great respect. It is in any company's best interests to respect their customers, if they wish to remain in business. More and more people are becoming interested in Hi-Res and audiophile quality playback. Some of these people might consider buying a device as expensive as the ubiquitous iPhone ($600-$750), but anything greedily-priced substantially higher than that will be more likely to alienate them and turn their attention to other brands such as Fiio. I am well aware that iPhones have greater economies of scale than a ZX2, but Apple are already being very greedy at $600-$750, so there is little reason why Sony couldn't choose to be less greedy and still achieve a healthy profit margin at around $600-$700. Let's face it; Sony are not exactly small fry, themselves. Additionally, since Hi-Res is finally beginning to gain some momentum, the ZX2 is a golden opportunity for Sony to gain a serious foothold in the premium DAP market again, after several years of relative decline. Circa $600-$700 is still a big chunk of cash, but it's much, much more accessible than $1200.  The latter takes the brand in the direction of stagnancy, which is not in their best interests, or that of their customers. And it's not just about the ZX2 - if Sony can draw-in lots of new would-be audiophiles, to the ZX2, at a reasonable price, then those very same customers may remain loyal to the brand when they seek their next Hi-Res audiophile DAP, in 2-3 years time.
 
 
Sony should be benefiting both themselves and the customers upon whom their success is utterly dependent, by using their manufacturing resources and economies of scale (esp. their in-house LSI silicon) to provide high-end hardware at a competitive price, rather than stagnating their own brand with high margins.
 
Amazing how Sony top-brass are so short-sighted...
 
They have a golden opportunity to gain new would-be audiophiles (possibly with long-term loyalty), at the beginning of mass-market ascendancy of Hi-Res,  but instead, they're taking a glitzy marketing + greedy profit-margin approach which impresses a small hardcore minority, but alienates the majority, and thus stifles mass-market penetration.
 
If they think following A&K is a good approach, given A&K's success with their business model of shameless price-gouging, then they haven't done their homework - business models like that, which so severely stack the cards in favour of the manufacturer and dealers, and so severely stack the cards against the customers, are (to continue the metaphor) built upon a fragile house of cards, and a severely imbalanced one, at that. It cannot last, longterm, and when it falls, it may do so catastrophically. Sony, of all companies, should be painfully aware of how hard, and how far, even giant corporations like themselves can fall, what with their billions of losses, in recent years.
 
.

 

[starfly]

  As a courtesy, I have deleted my post relating to your translation, harmonix.
 
However, I stand by the remarks in my subsequent post.
 
One only has to look at the huge price increase of the ZX2, in relation to the ZX1, to see there has been a very substantial increase in profit margin.
 
With complete respect to everyone here, if anyone believes that a few fancy capacitors and a bit of gold-plated copper really justifies such a huge price increase, they're being rather naive.
 
 
 
I find it quite amazing that so many large companies fail to understand the most basic facets of the way this universe operates.What goes around comes around. Grasping at fatter profit margins is a very short-sighted approach, if longterm business success is one's goal, because it is an imbalanced equation which cannot function indefinitely, and may eventually lead to catastrophic failure.
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony
 
 
 
I believe that Sony could sell the ZX2 at approximately 40-50% less, and, over the duration of the product life-cycle, make more profit, but in a balanced way that benefits both them and the customers on whom the business relies for its survival. More and more people are becoming interested in Hi-Res and audiophile quality playback. Some of these people might consider buying a device as expensive as the ubiquitous iPhone ($600-$750), but anything greedily-priced substantially higher than that will be more likely to alienate them and turn their attention to other brands such as Fiio. I am well aware that iPhones have greater economies of scale than a ZX2, but Apple are already being very greedy at ($600-$750), so there is little reason why Sony couldn't choose to be less greedy and still achieve a healthy profit margin at around $600-$700. Additionally, since Hi-Res is finally beginning to gain some momentum, the ZX2 is a golden opportunity for Sony to gain a serious foothold in the premium DAP market again, after several years of relative decline. Circa $600-$700 is still a big chunk of cash, but it's much, much more accessible than $1200.  The latter takes the brand in the direction of stagnancy, which is not in their best interests, or that of their customers. And it's not just about the ZX2 - if Sony can draw-in lots of new would-be audiophiles, to the ZX2, at a reasonable price, then those very same customers may remain loyal to the brand when they seek their next Hi-Res audiophile DAP, in 2-3 years time.
 
 
Sony should be benefiting both themselves and the customers upon whom their success is utterly dependent, by using their manufacturing resources and economies of scale (esp. their in-house LSI silicon) to provide high-end hardware at a competitive price, rather than stagnating their own brand with high margins.
 
Amazing how Sony top-brass are so short-sighted...

 
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Sony decides to come out with another sort of high-end DAP that sits in between the A10 series and the ZX2 and will be priced at the $600-$700 range. First, bringing out a high-end DAP at a premium price, such as the ZX2, will create a lot of hype around Sony again (this thread being case in point). Once the name Sony has become popular again with music lovers, they can introduce a mid-range model that will be closer to the ZX2 than the A10, but perhaps a little bit less fancy.
 
You see it all the time in the smartphone market, bring out a high-end product and get it all hyped up, and then later bring out more affordable products as well that have less advanced features.
 
Having said that, I'm very tempted to buy the ZX2, but I'll hold off another few months until the hype has worn off and I start seeing more objective reviews everywhere.

 

[nanaholic]

  I stand corrected (see earlier post) - yes increased margins is incorrect.
 
On the other hand there is nothing in the sentence about "high revenue" or "market share"?

 
It's in the last paragraph - 「高収益企業への変革」で、事業規模を追わずに収益を重視すること

 

[alwass89]

Has anyone tried the ZX2 with the MDR-Z7 headphones un-amped and can let me know how that sounds?

 

[reginalb]

   
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if Sony decides to come out with another sort of high-end DAP that sits in between the A10 series and the ZX2 and will be priced at the $600-$700 range. First, bringing out a high-end DAP at a premium price, such as the ZX2, will create a lot of hype around Sony again (this thread being case in point). Once the name Sony has become popular again with music lovers, they can introduce a mid-range model that will be closer to the ZX2 than the A10, but perhaps a little bit less fancy.
 
You see it all the time in the smartphone market, bring out a high-end product and get it all hyped up, and then later bring out more affordable products as well that have less advanced features.
 
Having said that, I'm very tempted to buy the ZX2, but I'll hold off another few months until the hype has worn off and I start seeing more objective reviews everywhere.

 
They could just keep selling the ZX1 in that price-slot. 

 

[harmonix]

  As a courtesy, I have deleted my post relating to your translation, harmonix.
 
However, I stand by the remarks in my subsequent post.
 
One only has to look at the huge price increase of the ZX2, in relation to the ZX1, to see there has been a very substantial increase in profit margin.
 
With complete respect to everyone here, if anyone believes that a few fancy capacitors and a bit of gold-plated copper really justifies such a huge price increase, they're being rather naive.
 
 
 
I find it quite amazing that so many large companies fail to understand the most basic facets of the way this universe operates.What goes around comes around. Grasping at fatter profit margins is a very short-sighted approach, if longterm business success is one's goal, because it is an imbalanced equation which cannot function indefinitely, and may eventually lead to catastrophic failure.
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony
 
 
 
I believe that Sony could sell the ZX2 at approximately 40-50% less, and, over the duration of the product life-cycle, make more profit, but in a balanced way that benefits both them and the customers on whom the business relies for its survival. More and more people are becoming interested in Hi-Res and audiophile quality playback. Some of these people might consider buying a device as expensive as the ubiquitous iPhone ($600-$750), but anything greedily-priced substantially higher than that will be more likely to alienate them and turn their attention to other brands such as Fiio. I am well aware that iPhones have greater economies of scale than a ZX2, but Apple are already being very greedy at ($600-$750), so there is little reason why Sony couldn't choose to be less greedy and still achieve a healthy profit margin at around $600-$700. Additionally, since Hi-Res is finally beginning to gain some momentum, the ZX2 is a golden opportunity for Sony to gain a serious foothold in the premium DAP market again, after several years of relative decline. Circa $600-$700 is still a big chunk of cash, but it's much, much more accessible than $1200.  The latter takes the brand in the direction of stagnancy, which is not in their best interests, or that of their customers. And it's not just about the ZX2 - if Sony can draw-in lots of new would-be audiophiles, to the ZX2, at a reasonable price, then those very same customers may remain loyal to the brand when they seek their next Hi-Res audiophile DAP, in 2-3 years time.
 
 
Sony should be benefiting both themselves and the customers upon whom their success is utterly dependent, by using their manufacturing resources and economies of scale (esp. their in-house LSI silicon) to provide high-end hardware at a competitive price, rather than stagnating their own brand with high margins.
 
Amazing how Sony top-brass are so short-sighted...

 
I hear you. The only thing that can push firms in that direction is competition. If the market for hi-res DAP's increases then this will get more interesting. At this point I see Sony having a real TOTL DAP while not cheap at $1100-1200 is still 1/2 the price of a previous TOTL king of the hill DAP (@ $2500) - that is a win in my books. 
Let the fun begin - game on!

 

[Mython]

   
I hear you. The only thing that can push firms in that direction is competition.

 
I understand what you mean, but I actually don't think it's that simple - as I remarked earlier, a sensible board will manage their company in such a way that it does not screw the customer as much as they can competitively get away with, but in a way which takes account of the competition (i.e. balance between the business and competing businesses) whilst still respecting the balance which should exist between business and customer. Ignoring one or the other can be equally disastrous.
 

   
If the market for hi-res DAP's increases then this will get more interesting.

 
True, though; yes.
 
 

   
At this point I see Sony having a real TOTL DAP while not cheap at $1100-1200 is still 1/2 the price of a previous TOTL king of the hill DAP (@ $2500) - that is a win in my books. 
 

 
 
I don't personally believe that the AK240 deserves 'king of the hill' status, even if it is currently the most expensive DAP, so I don't feel it's relevant for the ZX2 price to be justified as being OK, just because it's half the price of a disgustingly-overpriced competitor.
 
Not aiming that at you, at all, I promise - I'm just discussing it generally.

 

[Replicant187]

Pono came out with reasonable price but still hated by many for some reasons so i don't think cheaper ZX2 would've made that much of a difference.

 

[Mython]

Just because Pono disliked by many, and happens to be cheaper, doesn't have much bearing on the ZX2, does it?
 
 
Pono have no track-record (OK, so the player hardware was partly developed by Ayre Acoustics, but they have no DAP experience, AFAIK). The Pono player is a bit of an unorthodox novelty, arguably(!  

) more to raise awareness of the Pono music ecosystem, and Hi-Res music in general, than as an uber-serious attempt at a TOTL DAP.
 
 
The ZX1 and ZX2 offer a much more complete user-experience, ergonomically-speaking.
 
Sony also have a PAP (pocket audio player) track record going back more than 35 years.
 
They've been at the top of the PAP game, and could be again, if they were more respectful of their customers finances, and not just their own.
 
 

 
.

 

[harmonix]

   
I understand what you mean, but I actually don't think it's that simple - as I remarked earlier, a sensible board will manage their company in such a way that it does not screw the customer as much as they can competitively get away with, but in a way which takes account of the competition (i.e. balance between the business and competing businesses) whilst still respecting the balance which should exist between business and customer. Ignoring one or the other can be equally disastrous.
 
 
True, though; yes.
 
 
 
 
I don't personally believe that the AK240 deserves 'king of the hill' status, even if it is currently the most expensive DAP, so I don't feel it's relevant for the ZX2 price to be justified as being OK, just because it's half the price of a disgustingly-overpriced competitor.
 
Not aiming that at you, at all, I promise - I'm just discussing it generally.

 
"Screwing the customer" is a bit harsh IMHO. If they make a good product then hey people are allowed to make money right?
I have held off on buying an AK240 since it came out and every time I get tempted - I listen to it and back off. On the ZX2 though I'm in.
 
Regarding final point about relative pricing - maybe I'm not making it clear. It is the competitive mechanism here that will correct things in the end. If Sony can produce something better at 1/2 the price what is to stop the another firm from doing it to Sony and then iRiver reacts and Sony reacts accordingly. This is good thing!
If you believe it's too expensive just wait a while I'm sure things will heat up and new models continue to enter the market. 

 

[nanaholic]

  <snip>
.

 
I think your analyst is way off and is thinking from the last era.  As Apple has proven - it's much better to grab a small piece but the most lucrative and profitable part of the pie, rather than fight for the biggest share but the no profit part - hence Sony's PR about not caring about marketshare/size but aim for revenue.  Sony's aiming for that lucrative part here, and they are probably expecting the bottom feed is going to be mopped up by Chinese OEMs once the market grows bigger and attractive.  They've also learnt that lesson the very hard way with their mobile division with Android, or actually the past decade with their electronics when they lowered the TVs to match the Koreans and lost.
 
There's that saying that only a fool would repeat the same experiment expecting the same results.  Sony's messed up enough in the past under Stringer in which they were going for marketshare and sacrificing quality enough times that they are now in the red, and they aren't going to try the same thing this time.  Their direction is actually the correct one here, the ZX2 might be just testing the waters to see what the ceiling is for the market they are shooting for.  

 

[Mython]

   
"Screwing the customer" is a bit harsh IMHO. If they make a good product then hey people are allowed to make money right?
 

 
Well, I was speaking a bit more broadly, with that remark, but nonetheless, I'll stand by it, in specific relation to the ZX2, because I do not believe that Sony can legitimately justify the magnitude of the price increase over the ZX1. Remember, the ZX1 was already a premium-margin product (not by A&K standards, but by general-market standards).
 
 
I'm not actually arguing against Sony enjoying profit. I'm saying that I feel they are going a bad way about making profit and they could make more profit over the product life-cycle by making less profit per-unit.
 
I'm also not suggesting that Sony should settle for a paper-thin profit, either.
 
I'm saying they could make a moderate profit per-unit, and benefit themselves and their customers with the net profit of the ZX2 venture, when all is said and done, to say nothing of also benefiting the uptake of their music division's offerings.
 
Joe & Joanne Public need a compelling reason to invest in Hi-Res. The ZX2 fails miserably to carry the Sony banner, in that regard, and if I was in a Sony board meeting, I'd be extremely red-faced that a flagship product unnecessarily shoots the company in the foot, just because of an impatient desire to grab as much short-term publicity and short-term profit as possible, with all other considerations being damned as a consequence.
 
 

  I have held off on buying an AK240 since it came out and every time I get tempted - I listen to it and back off.

 
Quite a few people have said very much the same thing to me, privately.
 
 
Quote:

   
Regarding final point about relative pricing - maybe I'm not making it clear. It is the competitive mechanism here that will correct things in the end. If Sony can produce something better at 1/2 the price what is to stop the another firm from doing it to Sony and then iRiver reacts and Sony reacts accordingly. This is good thing!
If you believe it's too expensive just wait a while I'm sure things will heat up and new models continue to enter the market.

 
 
iRiver think they are just superior to everyone else, and know that some people (particularly in rapidly-growing economies like southeast Asia) will pay wheelbarrows of cash, on a whim, just to feel exclusive, superior, or ... 'Ultimate'.    It's extremely pathetic, on both sides of the equation, and on so many levels. Then there are simply those people who are pure audiophiles and convince themselves and others that the most expensive DAP on the market sounds the best...
 
The point is that competition between companies does 'cure' some price-gouging, but not all of it.
 
 
Fiio X7 ($699) may make some people think twice before paying $1200 for the ZX2, but I don't know how the X7 will perform, from a purely SQ POV, and I don't anticipate that it will be TOTL SQ, though it will undoubtedly come respectably close.
 
And, of course, there are others, due to be released, nearer the $1000 / $1100 mark.  This may make Sony feel more justified in pricing the ZX2 at $1200, but I still challenge that, for a number of reasons, and I still assert that Sony are fools to themselves for not seeking greater market penetration when they have the means and the opportunity to accomplish that.
 
Even though I have contributed many posts in this thread, challenging Sony, I am not 'anti-Sony'. I just think they can do better, in many of their decisions, and their size quite clearly makes them complacent, arrogant, blinkered, and intransigent.

 

[Whitigir]

Honestly, from the way Sony components look. It is not that expensive from what I read, and some collected readings were explained by Trance! Also the reason why I think this Zx2 has made a comeback for Walkman.

Solid Alumium body, carefully designed

Thicker copper circuit board

Quality OSCON x7

Quality Super capacitor

Quality 6N-OFC inner cables

Copper-gold plated back chassis

Copper-gold shielding to shield the Memory and processor away from Audio Components

Sony self-designed DAC-AMPLIFIER (S-Master.). I don't think there are any company out there to design their own DAC. They simply grab DAC from the Third party and design around it....even AK240 .... Fiio.....Pono...etc


while with Sony rich technology in Audio and Video all a long...remember Sony started all those CD-DVD-Bluray.....Digital in a way, and to have them to design a Portable one ? That is awesome !! I think ZX2 will be worth it. It gets this price range because they design and invent things to not sell amass....just....exclusive!

Instead of having to upgrade these things every year, while we merely have enough Highresolution to download or rent, how about Sony take time, and have the High-resolution music servers , get it done right...sell it to user for cheap ? Even cheaper with registered product Walkman series ?