[Koolpep]

@T.R.A.N.C.E. oh well, I feel your pain. Personally I am not willing to spend that much on a DAP, my limit is somewhere around the $600 range. So I rather buy something used, though I gave AK my money with the AK100 Sapphire blue edition in Japan...
 
Companies do these kind of mandatory prices because they want to maintain price parity and also to be seen as a super luxury brand. Luxury brands don't want to appear to be on "sale" or discounted. If that's the right way to go? I am not so sure. I am with you with the price level - it's a bit too much for me.
 
Cheers,
K

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

  Hmmm... is that true?
 
I live in Europe and price-fixing is illegal here.
 
If it is true that A&K are doing that, then my respect just dropped even lower than the already-subterranean level it was.
 
...Anyway, getting back to Sony and the ZX2... I see no reason why the huge price-increase can be justified between the X1 and the X2. It's too big a difference for too small a change in production costs. It doesn't stack-up.

 
Its what I've been told by a buddy working at an audio store. Just try and prove it wrong, try and find an authorized dealer selling an AK100ii, AK120ii, AK240 at something other than full retail price. Hint: You won't be able to!
 
Regarding ZX2 price, I am going of the rumored $1100 price for now, so that's $400 more than ZX1. Now should I post the big list of hardware changes again? Ok I'm gonna do It as I love looking at it

  Its quite something really. It seems worth $400 to me, any less would seem suspiciously cheap! lol. The chassis alone seems much more costly, what with the gold plated copper shield running all the back of screen and completely encasing audio circuit. Sure the cost of the below parts won't reach $400, but you got to include the extra design work that went into the ZX2 as well as the extra component costs. Completely newly designed power supply, incorporating super capacitor for more power plus more stable voltage rails, os-con caps for cleaner power, and larger battery for lower impedance. Then the analog stage got improvements, MELF caps, Large Coils, Film condensors. The PCB and solder is improved, the extra clock, high quality blue tooth. Cmon, you can't say $400 is overpriced for this stuff, its no bargain, but it isn't overpriced either. IMO. I look at this list, and its feels like a 100% perfected next installment of the ZX series. All this for $400. Then look at AK240 vs AK120ii the $800 difference gets you $100 more storage, an xmos chip and a different shell. 

 This is the last time I mention AK in this thread, please no one else bring it up, its making me sick 

 
 
1. Super Capacitor- ensures signal accuracy by providing more power reserves
2. 3 more Os-Con Caps- used in power filtering. Still retains the other 4 Os-Con caps like ZX1 in the analog circuit, but adds 3 more for stable frequency characteristics and lower noise.
3. PCB- Uses a thicker gold plated copper PCB than ZX1.
4. 2 Crystal Clocks- ZX1 could only do 44.1, 88.2 176.4 native, ZX2 adds 48, 96, 192 native.
5. Chassis- Noise isolation improved by encasing audio components in gold plated copper. ZX1 just used the aluminium chassis to isolate from the screen, ZX2 isolation metals are better, and isolate both front and back of player unlike ZX1, and also compartmentalize the battery.
6. 99.99% pure tin solder delivers a natural frequency balance.
7. MELF capacitors- used in the analog output stage, these metal electrode caps are the best possible you could use, a DIYers dream, and currently not found in any other daps. These are pictured next to the bottom two os-con caps, they are very small so look close.
8. Film condensors- Minimize interference from vibrations, waves and electrical sources. Again these are premium components, not found in any other daps. In the pictures, these are the green looking components next to the os-con caps.
9. Large coil resistors in analog circuit. For lower distortion, lower resistance power output. These are the large black square components next to the os-con caps and seem 3-4 times bigger than the ones on ZX1.
10. Double the battery capacity of the ZX1, this will actually halve battery impedance for better extension in bass and treble.

 

[Replicant187]

zx1 for $599 and zx2 for $999 would be more appropriate to me but what i know.
should i sell my zx1 and buy zx2 or maybe i should go with x5/dx90. or wait for x7? so many choices...

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

I just saw ZX2 on Sony's Facebook page in their CES album.  I hope this means a US release.  I'm curious on its battery life as a digital transport for their PHA-3, has anyone heard?
 
Exciting news...

 

[Koolpep]

   
 
Hmmm... is that true?
 
I live in Europe and price-fixing is illegal here.
 
If it is true that A&K are doing that, then my respect just dropped even lower than the already-subterranean level it was.
 
 
 
 
 
...Anyway, getting back to Sony and the ZX2... I see no reason why the huge price-increase can be justified between the ZX1 and the ZX2. It's too big a difference for too small a change in production costs. It doesn't stack-up.

http://www.internationallawoffice.com/newsletters/Detail.aspx?g=0962b073-31b6-4373-be12-ca9727415cac
 
There is retail price maintenance,  the courts are not entirely clear if that is price fixing as it's enforcing a policy.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price_agreement
 
In 11 countries in the EU you cannot sell a book for any other price than the one the publisher sets. We are not yet "harmonized" in this regard.
 
As well coming back to Sony: Clearly they want to grab market share in the high price super DAP market -> they know some people will buy it just because "it must be good because it costs so much" -> Vertu comes to mind. Anyhow, at least it's a beautiful device that people talk about. 
 
And it's one of the markets that Apple doesn't "own" yet. But wait until the market becomes large enough and lucrative enough...

 

[Mmet]

any information about the rated power output ?

 

[Mimouille]

I have or have had most DAPs and the ZX1 has easily the best UI IMO.

On the price issue, I think the more expensive the better, because since all DAPs sound more or less the same, and differences are mostly in our head, the more expensive the more you will feel it sounds good.

The first statement is serious.

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

  any information about the rated power output ?

 
Now that I think about it, it is strange that there has been no mention of increased power output yet. I hope to the heavens that Sony used a super capacitor big enough to increase voltage/power rather than a smaller one only adequate for reinforcing and stabilizing power.

 

[harmonix]

   
Now that I think about it, it is strange that there has been no mention of increased power output yet. I hope to the heavens that Sony used a super capacitor big enough to increase voltage/power rather than a smaller one only adequate for reinforcing and stabilizing power.

 
How much power do you need before you say enough?? Never enough....so just go all the way but you need to back the truck up on this one.
Just in case this isn't enough it's also available in a monoblock version - make that 2 trucks!
 

 

[Mython]

   
How much power do you need before you say enough?? Never enough....so just go all the way but you need to back the truck up on this one.
Just in case this isn't enough it's also available in a monoblock version - make that 2 trucks!

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

 

 
I know who Boulder are, and their reputation in fullsize hi-fi, but I'd still be interested to know 'what' I'm looking at, in that picture, and whether it stands toe-to-toe with other high-end amps, or if it's all looks and no glory

  (NB: I'm talking very specifically within the context of high-end silly-money statement-piece hi-fi gear, where things get very crazy very quickly and very often)
 

(credit: www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1011/boulder_3050_monoblocks.htm)
 
 
EDIT: 3060 Stereo Power Amplifier -  certainly look the part, I must admit. On their website, they say the monoblock version has 5 transformers, so I presume that's what the 'cylinder' shape is, in the above pic - 5 toroidals stacked in-line. Dunno why, but I'm reminded of this

:
 

 
 
Geez. Now why couldn't they learn a thing or two from Sony, and use a battery and a supercapacitor? That'd generate 900watts, wouldn't it?

 
 
Thanks for the quick digression, harmonix, I enjoyed this brief review
 
 
Back to the ZX2, I wonder how this DAP will be rolled-out globally. I think it may be quite telling that Sony have swiftly included the ZX2 publicity material on several of their global sites, which is something they often refuse to do with other DAP models, either forever or until several months have passed, with Japan usually getting first dibs on the rest of the world.
Sony may have realised that the ZX1 was successful enough to justify global release of the X2, and may also have realised that pi$$ing-off your international customers doesn't help the company's aims of growing Hi-Res profits (Sony Music and Sony DAPs)
 
.

 

[harmonix]

   
I know who Boulder are, and their reputation in fullsize hi-fi, but I'd still be interested to know 'what' I'm looking at, in that picture, and whether it stands toe-to-toe with other high-end amps, or if it's all looks and no glory

  (NB: I'm talking very specifically within the context of high-end silly-money statement-piece hi-fi gear, where things get very crazy very quickly and very often)
 
EDIT: 3060 Stereo Power Amplifier -  certainly look the part, I must admit. On their website, they say it has 5 transformers, so I presume that's what the 'cylinder' shape is, in the above pic - 5 toroidals stacked in-line.
 
Geez. Now why couldn't they learn from Sony, and use a battery and a supercapcitor? That'd generate 1500watts, wouldn't it?

 
 
.

2x Teslar S for the price 4x for the mono block version - Would this be what you consider silly end money?
Wonder if the Hugo TT can get close to the amperage

 

[Mython]

  2x Teslar S for the price 4x for the mono block version - Would this be what you consider silly end money?
Wonder if the Hugo TT can get close to the amperage

 
I wanna see Hugo get smaller, not bigger!

 
As for silly-money uber-high-end fullsize hi-fi gear, I recall that the figure of '5x' is often bandied-about amongst audiophiles, in terms of likely cost:retail ratio, after a high-end piece of gear (especially loudspeakers) has gone through marketing, distribution, boutique retail, etc.
 
 
Again, back to Sony - something which has surprised me about their marketing approach to their flagship ZX1 DAP is that they didn't (AFAIK) bundle some Hi-Res Sony music on the internal memory as a sweetener and as a tempter to DAP-buyers to buy more Hi-res Sony music titles.
 
Seems like a total no-brainer to me, since they own all the necessary rights to sell their own music label titles anywhere in the world they like.

 

[efftee]

The Sony's use Class D technology, unlike other traditional daps. Which is nothing special on its own, as all mobile phones on the market actually use Class D for audio these days, iphone, samsung, sony, lg etc all use a Class D audio output which is actually built into the CPU of the phones (Snapdragon CPU). But this means all kinds of noise and cross talk etc could occur, and the high power rail feeding the cpu is also feeding the audio circuit resulting in distortion etc. Basically most of the design factors are an audiophiles nightmare.

But the Sony ZX series are very special, they use a separate higher quality class D chip (S Master HX), The Sony ZX2 has an os-con capacitor filtered power supply for low noise, Film condensors for cancelling vibration and electrical noise, os-con capacitors in analog stage for better bass, high quality pcb and solder, and to top it off the whole audio circuit is encased in gold plated copper shielding to reduce noise and interference. The ZX2 also has a super capacitor to increase power over ZX1.

The sound of this series isn't really a "wow" type sound, its kinda analytical and thin, some would say cold or digital, but to me ZX1 represents a truer reproduction of the audio file and it actually sounds more natural than other Daps to me personally, especially with Hi-Res. The audio circuit in the ZX series is very short compared to other daps, its just CPU PCM> S Master PWM > Voltage Feedback Pump > Headphone. This short circuit coupled with the speed, accuracy and efficiency of Class D brings a truer representation of audio imo. And the ZX2 is said to remedy the main sticking points of ZX1, those being thin and cold (but still excellent).

Traditional daps instead mostly have to use a large opamp chain instead which varies in length depending on DAC used and desired output, which usually looks like CPU PCM > DAC > IV conversion > Low Pass Filter > Voltage Amp > Buffer > Headphone.

And I have basically come to hate on opamps, because they all sound different, yet non of them sound even close to perfect imo, a not exactly related example being op amp rolling in my E12 and P4 amps, even after spending $400 on various high end opamps, I would never find a sound that got everything right. Maybe I'm just crazy.

I pretty much feel that the future of audio advancement is Class D.  NAD is taking the Class D route with their DAC's and Amps and I have been very impressed with those. Companies won't stop producing the traditional DACs and Amps, because there will be many people that prefer that sound to Class D.

But Class D is the newest tech, and is just much more eloquently realized than traditional DACs and Amps imo. Its simple, efficient and sounds more transparent (imo).

Stop it, you are making me want one too!

Seriously, I didn't understand half of what you said but thanks for taking the trouble to explain though. I hope it sounds as good as you seem to be saying and live up to the tsunami of hype this thing is generating.

 

[harmonix]

I wanna see Hugo get smaller, not bigger!

As for silly-money uber-high-end fullsize hi-fi gear, I recall that the figure of '5x' is often bandied-about amongst audiophiles, in terms of likely cost:retail ratio, after a high-end piece of gear (especially loudspeakers) has gone through marketing, distribution, boutique retail, etc.


Again, back to Sony - something which has surprised me about their marketing approach to their flagship ZX1 DAP is that they didn't (AFAIK) bundle some Hi-Res Sony music on the internal memory as a sweetener and as a tempter to DAP-buyers to buy more Hi-res Sony music titles.

Seems like a total no-brainer to me, since they own all the necessary rights to sell their own music label titles anywhere in the world they like.

Yeah load it up with some Sony music tracks. They did that for the zx1 - no reason not to on the zx2

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

 
Again, back to Sony - something which has surprised me about their marketing approach to their flagship ZX1 DAP is that they didn't (AFAIK) bundle some Hi-Res Sony music on the internal memory as a sweetener and as a tempter to DAP-buyers to buy more Hi-res Sony music titles.
 
Seems like a total no-brainer to me, since they own all the necessary rights to sell their own music label titles anywhere in the world they like.

 
Its actually up to each national division of Sony to do these things. For example, in Australia where I am, the ZX1 came with a free set of MDR1 headphones when ZX1 first came out, then after this promotion all ZX1's came with a free voucher for 20 tracks of Hi-Res, which is actually still going on. And just recently the ZX1 went on sale for $559 from Sony store. So Australia is the place to be for Sony stuff