[denis1976]

No ,i love the 1Z and the ak380 copper too, where did you read that i don't like it? I just don't understand how people to justify is purchases have to say bad things about others...the ak copper is has much capable has the 1Z ...at least

 

[Whitigir]

No ,i love the 1Z and the ak380 copper too, where did you read that i don't like it? I just don't understand how people to justify is purchases have to say bad things about others...the ak copper is has much capable has the 1Z ...at least

Did I ever said bad things about ak380 copper ? Lol, I never made such statement toward 380 Copper, I never owned it, and no interests about it, hence I never read up about it. Why did you think I went to the moon since the day I bought my 1Z ?

I will have to be frank and kindly ask you to stop personal attacks to keep this thread dedicated to the WM1Z. Again, questions and being curious or impressions are welcome.

 

[denis1976]

You are free to say what you want..i just clarify you about the copper purity...you have a great GREAT music player forget the other GREAT music player this is like dating a top model and talk about a playmate

 

[denis1976]

The thing of the moon i was joking man...is like you bought a thing so good that you are in heaven... personal attacks?give me a break...if you understand that i apologize, and by the way , yes this is a tread about the 1Z and it was not me who talked about the LPG and AK380. ...

 

[Mimouille]

I've stated time and again that what I'm most impressed about the WM1 series is that Sony does everything from scratch - and you can really feel the passion the engineers put into this product.

Many seem to compare this to other DAPs like the Lotoo PAW Gold or AK380 and find the WM1 lacking in price/performance - but I see the complete opposite.  The Lotoo PAW Gold just uses a reference Texus Instrument DAC and amp design (just look up the PAW Gold spec on their website - they list the part number, then reference it on TI's own website to get the datasheet as well as reference circuit design) while the AK380 uses the AKM DAC chip - so neither company invested the necessary R&D nor pushed any technological envelopes, unlike Sony which makes many simple components from scratch.  To me DAPs like PAW Gold and AK380 are the DAPs which asks too much money for the effort/result they put in, whereas for the WM1 series you really are paying for the work of all the engineers to actually further technology in the portable world (because you know, they fabricate their own components, they make a digital amp design that no other company uses, all these know-hows which will surely make their way into other equipment, unlike the other companies which just source off the shelf parts). The fact that the WM1 also measures well now is just icing. 

I for one don't think the WM1Z is over or underpriced. Most AK players are overpriced in my opinion because despite excellent SQ they often have very weak amps.

On the other hand, while I appreciate efforts of companies like Sony or Chord on developing their own chips, I don't really care that much about anything except resulting SQ. I pay for this result more than the effort. And concerning the LPG, while the WM1Z is excellent, I am still keeping the other one. SQ stays in the same ballpark to me, and having such power in such a small size is impressive.

 

[purk]

I for one don't think the WM1Z is over or underpriced. Most AK players are overpriced in my opinion because despite excellent SQ they often have very weak amps.

On the other hand, while I appreciate efforts of companies like Sony or Chord on developing their own chips, I don't really care that much about anything except resulting SQ. I pay for this result more than the effort. And concerning the LPG, while the WM1Z is excellent, I am still keeping the other one. SQ stays in the same ballpark to me, and having such power in such a small size is impressive.

Well, it does sound like the LPG is a bargain if you still like it that much.  

 

[Whitigir]

I for one don't think the WM1Z is over or underpriced. Most AK players are overpriced in my opinion because despite excellent SQ they often have very weak amps.

On the other hand, while I appreciate efforts of companies like Sony or Chord on developing their own chips, I don't really care that much about anything except resulting SQ. I pay for this result more than the effort. And concerning the LPG, while the WM1Z is excellent, I am still keeping the other one. SQ stays in the same ballpark to me, and having such power in such a small size is impressive.

I do agree with the above, and of course sound quality is the deciding factor. It is a good thing that there are competitions and we as the consumers are harvesting the sweet fruits, without one, there wouldn't be another. So, in the end, I appreciate everything out there on the market ATM.

The most impressive things about the modern players is as you said, the power, the smaller form, and features. I love that I am being able to just plug the WM1Z into my stereo systems and enjoy countless of hours from high quality music. I remember the days where changing CD was such a pain....and the damaged tapes or the FW Or RW was a PITA

 

[nanaholic]

Yes but the chips on Astell&kern and Lotoo didn't came for free

The cost and effort of buying an off the shelf chip and making one yourself is in a completely different ballpark. In one the heavy lifting is done by another company (AKM, Texas Instruments), in the other Sony bares all the costs and associated risks.

 

[Mimouille]

Honestly I love the Sony, but from a business perspective, heavily investing in R&D is interesting only if significant product or production benefits which result in competitive advantage. In this instance it seems Sony is doing more for the love of the game or as a marketing tool.

 

[nanaholic]

Honestly I love the Sony, but from a business perspective, heavily investing in R&D is interesting only if significant product or production benefits which result in competitive advantage. In this instance it seems Sony is doing more for the love of the game or as a marketing tool.

 
Not true at all, they definitely have the results to prove it.  
One clear technological advantage is energy efficiency in the S-Master implementation.  250mW per channel from a 1820mAh battery providing 20+ hours of hi-resolution playback or 11 hours of DSD playback and not even warming up a tiny bit.  PAW Gold has a 6000mAh battery and they can't get more than 11 hours with standard files, or 3800mAh in the AK380 but only 50mW for a 32ohm load and less than 10hours of playback (maybe 5 on DSD) and it becomes a tiny heater (I owned a AK380 but already sold it).  If Sony keeps improving with the huge technical jump from the ZX2 S-Master to the WM1 S-Master in another 2-3 years time (16 folds jump in output power in balance and 4 folds in SE), they could get insane power as well as super energy efficiency in a very tiny and cool portable package and thus enabling them to make very sleek players but also powerful and battery efficient players, whereas the Class A implementation of the other DAPs would be hitting heat and size problems.  Sony's tech had a slow start but their future for improvement is brighter, and this is the real competitive advantage and the real value of them doing their own R&D, especially when the sonics are now reaching the point where the objective measurements are getting so close that it's the subjective preference influencing the decisions more.

 

[Mimouille]

I was talking from an SQ point of view, the battery is true...but please try to take some distance from this, you sound like a Sony sales rep...I was not attacking them.

 

[nanaholic]

I was talking from an SQ point of view, the battery is true...but please try to take some distance from this, you sound like a Sony sales rep...I was not attacking them.

 
But I wasn't, I was always focusing on the Sony DAP regarding their overall technical achievements when doing something from scratch.
 
And as I said, the SQ POV is now rather subjective and not very objective - nearly all TOTL DAPs now have solved FR and harmonic distortion problems, got rid of background noise and hisses and output impedance which are all issues that easily shows up in measurements, so without any more talking points now a lot of the reviews comparing DAPs say such things as "micro detail retrieval" for DAP X is superior than DAP Y or that DAP Y sounds "more airy" than DAP X yet when you look at measurements it shows very little if any difference, so how do we objectively make that comparison and deciding which one is objectively better?  I don't believe we can't anymore as the moment sound is interpreted by our brain everything is subjective and the qualities often discussed in reviews are not easily quantifiable, so IMO it's not really something worth discussing when getting to this level of TOTL DAPs as the discussion regarding SQ here at this level is just going to be subjective rather than objective, and people should be mindful of their language - so rather than say "I think DAP X is better than DAP Y" which gives a false impression of "better" like the sun is bigger than the earth, they may have to think about saying "I like DAP X more than DAP Y" instead to really say what they mean - that they subjectively prefer DAP X over DAP Y - like a person preferring pizza over a burger - as neither is the objectively "better" choice.
 
However when it comes to things like battery efficiency, output power, these are objective facts where direct comparisons can and should be made.  Sony is making strides here and catching up on an area where they were traditionally behind, so I don't see how giving them credit where credit is due is me being a sales rap when the numbers shows that they've done what they said they did. 

 

[ttt123]

  Since in the other thread it's already buried really deep, I feel that I should re-post my translation of the interview of the WM1 team here for owners to read.
 
The original interview is found here:
http://www.sony.jp/walkman/special/flagship/manufacturer/
 
This time around I've finished the whole thing - so all 6 pages of the interview is here. Enjoy the reading which I think will make all owners appreciate the WM1 series a whole of more (than they already do, I would bet.)

Thanks for all the work interpreting the whole interview.  Reading about the designer's goals, and understanding some of the things they implemented is very interesting, and gives some background to what they accomplished in the end product, and how.  And increases the confidence that there are solid reasons for what we are hearing.  A couple of the areas that I think are major:
1. Power Supply - the extra work to clean up and increase the power supply reserve will have major impact in all aspects of SQ, especially in the bass and micro detail areas.  I don't think it can be overstated how important clean power is, to any audio system.  And how many SQ areas benefit when power is done well.
2. The tuning of the capacitors to add extra power when needed, can have a major impact on bass
3. S-Master digital amp - a major differentiator from other implementations.  I think we are hearing the benefits possible with an integrated digital path, from input to output stage.
 
And of course all the myriad of changes to the pentaconn jack, wiring, chassis, layout, etc., all gives the confidence that this is a product crafted and tuned by an engineering team that "sweated" the details, and had the money, and the mandate, but most importantly, who are all fanatics in the area of trying to achieve the best SQ, and not just technical sound, but "musical", and trying to achieve something where the emotion of the singer/instrument can come through.  This is such a nebulous area that I suspect most designers are not even aware of it's existence, and their goal is for technical perfection, and not "soul".  In this area, it is like trying to make a modern Stradivarius.  You can analyze it with all the modern instruments, and copy it exactly, bu there is no guarantee  that you  will be able to create another Stradivarius.
 
So I do not believe that the WM1x series is just empty boasting, throwing together components to try to milk gullible audiophiles, and that it is something easily done, and massively overpriced.  It is a work of love, trying to achieve one goal, to be able to reproduce music as good as it can be done.
 
What I am hearing is a confirmation of the stated goals, so I am not going to repeat what has already been stated much better and clearer than I could do.
 
All I can say is that I think they(the designers) have achieved their goal.  The WM1x series has the capability to communicate music and  emotion, if the rest of the reproduction chain (IEM/Headphone, wiring) is up to the task. 
 
And to repeat nanaholic's words, yes this is my subjective impression.  The WM1A is something that I am happy with, as I am enjoying more and more of the music that I hear.  It's better than any other portable setup I have had,  And probably as good (in a different way) as my home setups.  
 
And of course many people may not agree, which is perfectly OK.  Everybody has different viewpoints, experiences, and beliefs, and there is no single viewpoint of musical reality.  Not until we are all part of a hive mind.  Until then, we will just have to agree to disagree.
 
Could the other great DAPs out there be better, I don't know.  At the moment, I do not have the urge to investigate, and am happy to just stop here for awhile.  (Actually, I'm afraid to listen to the WM1Z, as it would probably start me thinking about how to get it.  Better to just defer it for as long as possible.)

 

[Whitigir]

Nanaholic, Very insightful. Sony even stated that the 4.4mm sockets on the WM series were made according to Sony preferences. I agree that sockets and jacks do play a role in the final outcome, and surprisingly Sony said it. Hell, I appreciate Sony for making WM1Z with every thought possible about sound quality. Not only that but the reliability as well. My reasons to buy WM series were

1/ 11-22 hours on high-res files
2/ not warmed up in my pockets
3/ balanced with 240mW per channel
4/ my Zx2 can sit idle for a week and still has battery left

Then the WM1Z little thoughts about stuff were the icing. By the way, is there any other DAP that sustain a longer playback time than Sony Walkman on the market ?

 

[Elawarai]

I'm also owning a Sony WM1Z since two weeks and I totally agree with Whitgir point of view.
 
In my opinion, the WM1Z is more that its only superb SQ. I also love its internal storage, its form factor, fat but not too tall, and it's very simple UI.
 
I only regret its quite sluggish OS in albums navigation.