Sony MH1 R&D Story ...and discussion.

[kwerdenker]

Quote:

I think I can answer the question about the cable.  The design may have been fashion driven but it works well for calls, like this
 

After giving this some thought, I think they also tried to remedy one of the problems with J-cords: uneven pull-force distribution.
 
The normal J-cords are basically one long cable that goes into your left ear with an extension to go behind your neck to your right ear. With this construction, the whole weight of the cable and every pull exacts it's force only on the left side. The right side is strain-relieved (to some extent) by the neck. That's a normal J-split without that big mic/button complex mind you. With that thing added you'll probably have to get used to often pulling the left piece out of your ear (had this problem with my previous J-cord cables).
 
Now, if you change the split to the way it is on the MH1C, the long part of the cable goes behind your neck to the right ear and thus the strain on the cable is relieved by the neck. You're left with a relative small extension cable to your left ear and on that the added mic/button-thingy doesn't matter that much.
 
But this is just a theory of mine (unless Sead can comment on this?)
 
Btw: for me, if I balance the lenghts of the cables on the left and the right side, the split rests directly on my neck and doesn't hang in the air. Might also be by design to cancel out the pull-force...

 

[waynes world]

After giving this some thought, I think they also tried to remedy one of the problems with J-cords: uneven pull-force distribution.

The normal J-cords are basically one long cable that goes into your left ear with an extension to go behind your neck to your right ear. With this construction, the whole weight of the cable and every pull exacts it's force only on the left side. The right side is strain-relieved (to some extent) by the neck. That's a normal J-split without that big mic/button complex mind you. With that thing added you'll probably have to get used to often pulling the left piece out of your ear (had this problem with my previous J-cord cables).

Now, if you change the split to the way it is on the MH1C, the long part of the cable goes behind your neck to the right ear and thus the strain on the cable is relieved by the neck. You're left with a relative small extension cable to your left ear and on that the added mic/button-thingy doesn't matter that much.

But this is just a theory of mine (unless Sead can comment on this?)

Btw: for me, if I balance the lenghts of the cables on the left and the right side, the split rests directly on my neck and doesn't hang in the air. Might also be by design to cancel out the pull-force...

I don't know exactly what the mh1c cable is like, but I couldn't handle the way the xba3 j cable tugged out of my left ear. I snagged a clip from my other iem and clip it under the left split to my shirt, and this works really well. When I read Joe's description of how to handle the mh1c, it seemed to be the same thing.

 

[kwerdenker]

Quote:

I don't know exactly what the mh1c cable is like, but I couldn't handle the way the xba3 j cable tugged out of my left ear. I snagged a clip from my other iem and clip it under the left split to my shirt, and this works really well. When I read Joe's description of how to handle the mh1c, it seemed to be the same thing.

You do get a clip with your MH1Cs and sure, clipping the cable is the ultimate solution. But I'm not a big fan of clips for various reasons and so I think it's a good idea to try a solution that doesn't need you to use them

 

[Sead]

Quote:

Alright. Few questions.
What influenced or inspired you to create such a gem?
 
What I mean is.
Were you and your team encouraged or incentivized by Sony to create this masterpiece with as little resources as possible?
Or was this a renegade idea by some rebel that wanted to go against the norm?

You mentioned that the choice of cabling was fashion related.
Does this apply to the fact that the cable is flat or that the cable style used is the j-chord rather than the traditional y shape?
Or was it both?
 
Who chose to base the cabling on fashion?
If you had been the sole decision maker, would you have used regular cabling? Or would there have been compelling reasons to use the flat j-chord cable because of its intended use?

Well, inspiration behind the MH1 was simply desire to create a great sounding headset. Normally, stock headset are not allowed to cost much and there where no exemption for MH1 project either.  Basically you are free to do what you want, as long as it doesn't cost anything. 

  So, actually i didn't had so much choice, then really pushing for the absolute audio design limits and beyond that, by optimizing price / performance ratio for every single detail... One thing is for sure, you should not judge MH1s SQ by it's price, for those who can put that bias aside there are great discoveries to be made...     
 
...Those cables, yes besides "fashion", a "tangle free" was a popular parameter when putting these tagliatelle's on the MH1...and if i could influence cable parameter at that time i would rather put regular cabling on MH1 (from audio&ergonomic PoV).  As for J vs Y shape, i don't intend to comment these as both can have they pros and cons... 
 
Quote:

I wonder why is the flange of the tips made of 2 different materials, with the bottom part having more friction?

2 different materials are used to balance functionality with comfort and seal... Tip of MH1 is slightly longer than "normal", and it's part of acoustical tuning of the treble-shape. So core/tube of the tip is more rigid so that it doesn't brakes up (causes leakage), or changes it's shape (influence tuning)...  MH1 tip is designed for shallow inserting in mind, so there is a reason for both size/shape update as well as material/friction of the tip...  

 

[dustdevil]

Quote:

2 different materials are used to balance functionality with comfort and seal... Tip of MH1 is slightly longer than "normal", and it's part of acoustical tuning of the treble-shape. So core/tube of the tip is more rigid so that it doesn't brakes up (causes leakage), or changes it's shape (influence tuning)...  MH1 tip is designed for shallow inserting in mind, so there is a reason for both size/shape update as well as material/friction of the tip...  

Well what I meant was why were 2 different materials used to produce the flange of the tips, not the flange and the core, hope it is easier to understand.

 

[ClieOS]

Well what I meant was why were 2 different materials used to produce the flange of the tips, not the flange and the core, hope it is easier to understand.

The flange has two different finishing, but not necessary two different materials.

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

Well, inspiration behind the MH1 was simply desire to create a great sounding headset. Normally, stock headset are not allowed to cost much and there where no exemption for MH1 project either.  Basically you are free to do what you want, as long as it doesn't cost anything. 

  So, actually i didn't had so much choice, then really pushing for the absolute audio design limits and beyond that, by optimizing price / performance ratio for every single detail... One thing is for sure, you should not judge MH1s SQ by it's price, for those who can put that bias aside there are great discoveries to be made...     
 
...Those cables, yes besides "fashion", a "tangle free" was a popular parameter when putting these tagliatelle's on the MH1...and if i could influence cable parameter at that time i would rather put regular cabling on MH1 (from audio&ergonomic PoV).  As for J vs Y shape, i don't intend to comment these as both can have they pros and cons... 
 
2 different materials are used to balance functionality with comfort and seal... Tip of MH1 is slightly longer than "normal", and it's part of acoustical tuning of the treble-shape. So core/tube of the tip is more rigid so that it doesn't brakes up (causes leakage), or changes it's shape (influence tuning)...  MH1 tip is designed for shallow inserting in mind, so there is a reason for both size/shape update as well as material/friction of the tip...  

I find the cable works fine over the ears for me so I'm good.
 
I think the tips supplied are perfect and have also commented that these sound better shallow. It's amazing to me that you went to such lengths in tuning these. I guess they were to be a high volume product early in development and allowed you sufficient R&D resources as long as they weren't too costly to produce. I made a mod post but I understand the tune both as is for what it was intended to be used with. They just have good bones and 10 min of tweak (vent and foam) have them in my playing field. I don't expect you to comment on mods but wanted to thank you for the solid engineering. (good bones)

 

[Sead]

Quote:

I made a mod post but I understand the tune both as is for what it was intended to be used with. They just have good bones and 10 min of tweak (vent and foam) have them in my playing field. I don't expect you to comment on mods but wanted to thank you for the solid engineering. (good bones)

 
Oh, great... can you provide a link to your suggested mods, i would be interesting to see what you have come up with?

 

[goodvibes]

It's not just me. They're simple. I think Kova was first to remove 1/2 to 2/3 of the foam from under the stick on wax filter and the other is to just plug the vent. Many IEMs shut dowm when you close a vent but I guess the this micro driver is small enough to not be advesely affected. Bass still extends low but tightens up and the mids get cleaned up. So many cel phones are bass shy and bright that I understand the original one size fits all tune but for better sources, I like these mods. I personally found the stock bass overwhelming and the upper ranges a little too mellow but I know that it's personal and others like it just as it is. Other things in this price bracket don't have the bones for this result in either configuration.

 

[cujobob]

Where are you guys finding these for $19?

 

[atomikn00b]

Quote:

Where are you guys finding these for $19?

not playing "post police" but this question should be in one of the other threads.
here is reserved for r&d related questions and discussion.

 

[Inks]

Sead, I suggest reading this analysis of the MH1. 

 

[ClieOS]

Apparently I am that "affiliated blog blatantly advertising the IEM". Quite a lengthy way around for saying 'shill'? Well, won't be the first time I was called that but I guess it comes with the territory. On 2nd thought, why not put this into the the first page for people to judge for themselves?

[EDIT] Done.

 

[yalper]

Sead, is there any research study about how healthy are these stock tips and listening high volume music with these iems. I have listened some bassy music about 35-40 mins, (not too high volume) and it upsets my stomache.
I have been listening iems for years, but this is the first time I felt like this. 

 

[goodvibes]

The test blog other than its conclusions is not bad at all. The bass port closing removes bass exactly from where it needs it. 2 db removed from the lower mids and upper bass makes all the difference in the world. It also tightens the character throughout to sound better damped. (a specific complaint in the blog).  I also heard the dip in the lower treble. The shallow insertion has also already been discussed here as sounding more linear and confirmed by the designer as helping. Also noted in the blog. A bit of foam removal also helps with it's presence.
 
 To me it will always be a bass heavy IEM and a little on the smooth side but I find it, with mods, to do exactly as ClieOS describes and reach well above it's modest price. No, it's not going to outperform the high end IEM of your choice but it's more than just the cheap fotm. I agree with the blog about the bass as stock but unlike the blog, I find it acceptable when blocked and don't agree with the recommendation to leave it open, depending on taste. As stock, I couldn't personally use it either as I'm not a bass head and I actually found it somewhat fatiguing but find it quite the deal with the port sealed and actually like it in the mix with some foam removed. I could see this as my go to when on a plane for instance. I certainly wouldn't want to spend a lot on a bass heavy IEM and this one fills that need with more refinement than I could ever expect for the price. Yes, it's not the best thing since sliced bread as many are treating it but it is a super deal and a good product with very little massaging.