[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller The R-10 IIRC was designed (and this is answering to another post) with a dedicated amp in mind, they create a whole line of -10 products including a headamp, not very common, and IIRC not a big deal of an amp neither....

really?

how come they made such a crap amp for such elite headphones?
(exuse me for being a bit out of the topic here)

 

[williamgoody]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch What you did was confuse me with someone else. I jumped into the discussion between you and Geek, and you confused me with Geek (whom you were originally discussing with). I suggest you go back to page 8, 10th post down... begin with that post, read the responses, and please... PAY ATTENTION to usernames so you don't get lost again. The first post on page 9 (top) was where you originally got off track and started attributing things to me that were said by Geek. You quoted me, but then started talking about things that Geek said, not things that I said. I really, really hope this helps. I could say any number of sarcastic things about brains being turned off, but this thread is no longer worth wasting time on.

So then why are you wasting time on it, to let us know?

I don't remember anyone giving you attitude, so don't dish it, K?

Stick to your guns and be rational, that's all you can do. If others don't see the light, so be it. Just make sure you're open minded. You may not be getting through to the person you're addressing, but you probably are to others indirectly.

I've made many of the same points as you have in the past, and still stick by them. If there's one fault of the 3000's, it might be that they are THAT tough potentially to match up to gear to taylor them to your liking. I find them THAT fussy. For me, I've found the gear and am happy with them. Feel free to research my posts if you want.

Even in this thread, I don't buy the arguements against the cable replacement issue, the misconception that the 600's can't sound good unless they're fed by a serious amp, etc. It all comes down to preference. The 600's are just as great as the 3000's, just DIFFERENT.

 

[AdamZuf]

fewtch,
for your own good feeling, and for the sake of the thread (that might have some hope for real discussion), don't answer.
you'll just keep on fighting with people in here, there's no good from it for anyone..

and if fewtch ain't going to answer, people don't bash him or something, because that's useless no less.

thank you.

 

[Sean H]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover Sean, last time I checked the lower treble is treble too. What misconception, I stated the upper midrange / lower treble in the speakers caused a false/ heightened sense of depth that colored all music played throught the speakers. I never mentioned the upper treble. Treble does weaken off axis but what if you sit on axis by turning the speakers inward receiving the direct sound? The original point was the room warms the sound/ rolls off the treble and this is just not true in every or even most cases. I have rarely had trouble with the sound being to warm. As for this attempt to manipulate the frequency response to lower the upper mids / lower treble, thats a coloration that will affect everything played through the speaker or headphone; and not always for the best. Some music should sound distant, some should not. I dont like that constant distant balance and thats probably why I find senns to bug me.

Starting to get really confused here, this has been a roller coaster of a thread.

In hindsight I see you weren't necessarily talking about upper treble before, sorry about the misconception thing.

When I was talking about the room in my initial post, about the warmth curve, I was talking about the room of a live performance not a room in your home a speaker system might be in. To me live performances (instruments and voices in enclosed spaces) often have a gradual roll off of the treble range and a lot of mid and upper bass, as well as a *slightly* subdued upper midrange. I speculated that Sennheiser may have designed the HD600 with this thinking in mind, which I have no idea if they did or not, but to me the HD600 sounds like it has this type of coloration. Sounds like it should be a bad thing to do but damned if it doesn't sound right to me. Again I'm comparing this to what sounds like "live" to me. It doesn't really sound all that distant to me, it sounds like I am listening to a performance in front of me rather than right up against my ears.

 

[AdamZuf]

with no crossfeed, the CD3000 is my only headphones that image the performance in front and around me, with no effort at all.
the senns and beyers are much more on the sides, both are less speaker like.

at the begining of my headphone journey with the senns (stock), i had to kinda force things to be in front of me, or would i say, add imagination.

then came the beyers, with their naturalness and big soundstage. they opened my mind, and i developed a listening technique that ignores the direction of my eyes (which looks forward), to benefit most of the sound. it was very interesting, and i feel i trained my ears. yet, it creates some psychological problem, as naturally, eyes shouldn't be ignored. the natural imagination flow is routed in both senses. of coarse this method doesn't really help for frontal imaging.

the ety's - i'll wait for my EMP.. until then, you don't hear me say much of them. they really need every bit of improvement to be judged. but anyway, it's not infront of me, it's inside of me.

and now...ahhh yeah...the CD3000. i can't do that method i did with the beyers anymore. just no need, it doesn't work - they throw tons of information in a natural way in front of me - i see visions through my eyes, i see emotions, palpable. they are more contrasted by a large margin then any of my other phones.
so in that regard, no doubt the CD3000 are the most natural of my phones. i listened to diverse stuff today - and they really proved themselvs better then yesterday. for me, psychological burn in is much needed. i wonder how it will be in a week.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf really? how come they made such a crap amp for such elite headphones? (exuse me for being a bit out of the topic here)

Just do a search IIRC KR has some pics of the amp in question, it was a whole line of products wit the same number I think...even I'm not sure but IIRC they made also an adapter to hook them up at the speaker out of the amps...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf with no crossfeed, the CD3000 is my only headphones that image the performance in front and around me, with no effort at all. and now...ahhh yeah...the CD3000. i can't do that method i did with the beyers anymore. just no need, it doesn't work - they throw tons of information in a natural way in front of me - i see visions through my eyes, i see emotions, palpable. they are more contrasted by a large margin then any of my other phones. so in that regard, no doubt the CD3000 are the most natural of my phones. i listened to diverse stuff today - and they really proved themselvs better then yesterday. for me, psychological burn in is much needed. i wonder how it will be in a week.

Well I'm listening now an Steve Howe live album, WOW when I close my eyes I feel in the hall near the stage even I can hear the people around me...this is unbelievable...never before I have experienced this, my wife is really pissed with me now....

 

[AdamZuf]

i'll say even more. when i said the "beyer method" doesn't work - i meen it!
i'm having a hard time trying to "look" with my ears to the sides, because much frontal information is ignored...so why should i do that?
we don't do that on live performance, right?

 

[sacd lover]

Sean H, Henry Kloss of Advent speaker fame used to design his speakers how you describe. It was referred to as the East Coast or New England sound. He purposely rolled off the treble to simulate the sound of a live event as he heard it. However the flaw in his reasoning was that he sat where the treble was very weak. The opposite was the West Coast sound where JBL was the prime example; hot treble and pumped up bass. The easing up of the upper mids and lower treble does make a speaker more listenable but you cant take it to far. I have always preferred the East Coast sound but the room makes a huge difference as to whether it will work. I am talking about a listening room at home.

Now you are talking about a concert hall setting. One thing you need to remember is that the rooms sound is determined not by just the rooms space or size but the combo of absorbtion and reflection in the room. In a concert setting there may be many people; absorption. Soft seats and carpeted isles; absorption. Drapes; absorption. Many concert halls, especially when packed with people are far more absorptive than most settings and this will lead to the gentle tonal balance. However, what about concrete stadiums with metal support posts and metal railings? These are not kind to the tonal balance and with edgy amplfication can drill holes in your ears. You may have something like the nice cushioned hall in mind while I am looking at all the options.

I sit in a concert hall of sorts every Sunday at church. I hear a guitar, drums, piano and three to four vocalists. This church is a block building with bare block walls, has wooden pews, hardwood floors, a high ceiling. Its much larger than any room you would find in a normal home setting. The treble is anything but tame. The side wall reflections can pump the vocalists and make them very upfront even sitting towards the back. In general, the sound is fast and somewhat bright. Where I was coming from is that the room does not cause warmth in all cases. This room I describe clearly does not warm anything up. I hate it when they bring in someone who is amplfied; it sounds way to loud and brash.

My point is only that a room does not roll off the treble unless it is absorptive. Not all rooms are absorptive; some are reflective. In a reflective room the sound is not going to have the gentle tonal balance you describe. In a highly damped room the speaker you describe(spendor) will sound dead. A bright and less musical speaker could sound just right; even though its generally inferior.

I dont know why senn would design this headphone this way unless the rumors they were designed for Classical music are true. But if you impose this character on all music some is not going to sound right. I dont listen to Classical I listen to rock and blues ;so maybe the answer why I find the senn sound colored lies here.

 

[cadobhuk]

does anyone have a pic of a man with cd3000 on his head?i hope they dont look as goofy as hd280

 

[AdamZuf]

sacd lover,
i share your opinion.
classical music is also played in more treble friendly acoustics, on smaller enssambles usually, where the listeners can be quite close.
and as i said before..i don't care much for laid back, forward bla bla.. as long as it sounds right. an istrument is the same one on stage or at home, at the hands of the player, both are real.
i'll choose what sounds more real, not what's laid back or what's more upfront, as long as the other features of the product can catch up with it(the sonys aren't the most faithful to all instrument nature, i think, compared to reality, but other features really makes me forget about it, so i love them very much..).
i feel it's better to leave the recording as is (not to roll highs) and to enjoy headphones unlike speakers, at least it seems better then to force a certain character that won't fit a some musical genres (at least to my ears, they don't fit as much as the CD3000 or DT880), not even all of the classical genres - which it seems the senns target the most.

the truth is, that either of the headphones here are perfect for me (i think...where's my EMP dammit).. i'm just broke

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by cadobhuk does anyone have a pic of a man with cd3000 on his head?i hope they dont look as goofy as hd280

https://home.comcast.net/~jcb250/images/15A_0352.JPG
he has a quite small head, though. (anyone knows who is this, BTW? he's from the detroid meet)

 

[cadobhuk]

they look fine,good news

 

[AdamZuf]

will you let the great outdoors ever see them?
or: will you ever see them after the great outdoors will see them?
(depends on your 'hood)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am the keeper of this thread! me shall not rest!

(no, adam, you're a parasite)

i'm really tired.. i'm going to listen to Gong and open my mind before sleep... good night, folks

 

[Guyferd]

adam I agree with you that the cd3k puts the performer right before your eyes. With the hd600 and even 880, I need the crossfeed . Without it, it's pretty much like left to right thing.
Cd3k is just superb.. the more I listen to them the more I get addicted

my ety er 4s is gathering dust...