[purk]

fewtch,

Say what ever you want, but at least I auditioned the HD-600 and CD-3K in my home, side by side for more than 3 month, so I know what I'm talking about. I just happen to prefer the CD3K in my system. On the other hand, you really need to be open mind about the CD3K, and audition it for yourself. If you don't like it, tell us why. Don't just assume everything and called it "HYPE". CD3000 is an excellent sounding cans and many owner also agree.

 

[AdamZuf]

i'm afraid that even if his hearing will like them, he won't like them

btw, it's nice that the thread is getting more interesting in the last few posts..
good night

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally posted by fewtch I'm leaving this thread permanently (I'm sure all you CD3k fanatics are breathing a sigh of relief). Reminds me of a bunch of radical born-again xtians pushing their version of the holy bible... no rational discussion here at all, just a bunch of overemotionalized hype based on one headphone model -- generally without taking sources and other preferences into account. Based on all this, I would never get a CD3k (if it turns you into a hype-meister who makes radical, absolutist claims... forget it, I'd rather listen to some stock PCDP earbuds). Cya... *poof*

I gave you a rational argument and now you *poof* run away. I pointed out the inconsistencies in your statements and you get disrespectful because your emotions have turned off your brain. You are the one whose statements offer absolutes based on an audition with an airhead amp and portable cd player; not me. I am the one trying to take different systems into account; not you. I like cd 3000's ; I like grados and beyer dt 880's too. I dont like senn hd 580's, they dont suit my listening tastes. Do I think cd 3000's are superior? I do for me, but I can understand why other people prefer hd 580/600's and thats ok with me. The only reason I allowed myself to be sucked into this exchange was because I had read enough of your emotionally charged bantering. Furthermore, if you expect members to take you seriously you should be aware of what you write, and respond to the subject and the points of rebuttal; with none of this leveling attacks at people, calling names and crying no one is rational when you are the one who is clearly not intrested in listening to others opinions.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by MusicLover I doubt they are designed to be heard without a dedicated amp. Both headphones are top of the line, and without an amp, it is pointless to buy such good headphones. The HD600's especially are made to driven with an amp, obviously, because they are 300 ohms.

Sorry, if a company design a headphone with a dedicated headphone amp on mind, they for sure will go out of bussiness more sooner than later, well to the point, do you have the manual...OK, this is from the only note on the manual, besides the specs and two or three pics, if I understand correctly there is not such "dedicated headphone amp" mentioned on the text in any place, sorry but this is a completelly wrong supposition, and what I have heard though here, is that they were designed to be driven by a 0 ohms jack, though, and not a high impedance amp BTW, well it says clearly:

".....Connects directly to quality hi-fi components, especially compact disc and digital tape machines....."

Most CDPs and a tape machines jacks sound far worst than a jack of an amp...

 

[MacDEF]

fewtch, although I agree that there are CD 3000 owners who are "fanatical," to be fair there are also fanatical HD 600 owners

I think the main point some of the CD 3000 owners are trying to make to you, however well or poorly expressed, is that comparing the CD 3000 and HD 600 out of a single, lower-end system isn't a very comprehensive comparison. I would agree with them on that. I don't think anyone is questioning your judgement; rather, the reliability of blanket statements about the two headphones based on such an audition.

Even if it's only to hear what the HD 600 can really do

I highly recommend trying out both headphones in a great system. You'll probably be amazed by both

 

[NeilPeart]

The CD3000 and HD600 are both great cans. However, they offer different glimpses into one's music and some may prefer one over the other. Of course there are magical combinations with both 'phones, such as the CD3K/ZOTL and HD600/Max. I owned both of these combos for awhile and enjoyed them. However, when push comes to shove I still use my HD600 more than all my other headphones; I simply love their sound. I sold my ZOTL and I now use the EAR HP4 to drive them (not quite as good as the ZOTL in some areas with this can, but overall a much better amp). I'll still put on "Moving Pictures" or "Led Zeppelin II" and put on the CD3000 more often than the HD600 - the CD3K is a fun phone that competes with my SR-225 for rock duties. However, it's not for everyone and I think its fans know that. I don't understand all the emotional arguments in this thread, but I guess passion and intensity are characteristics of music fans like us. The HD600 and CD3K never even argue at my house; the two are very well behaved! Let us agree to disagree and put on "Giant Steps" and marvel at Coltrane's vision.

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by NeilPeart Let us agree to disagree and put on "Giant Steps" and marvel at Coltrane's vision.

let's do that !

oh and let's not forget the crossfeed! (hope you have one for all these old stereos)

ahhh wonderful, friend! you gave me a good mood now, and some spirit at almost 2 am

 

[Habib]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Even if it's only to hear what the HD 600 can really do I highly recommend trying out both headphones in a great system. You'll probably be amazed by both

Right on, I very much look forward to the chance of hearing HD600 on the MAX or even - Blockhead! Until then I will live happily with my CD3000

 

[MusicLover]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller Sorry, if a company design a headphone with a dedicated headphone amp on mind, they for sure will go out of bussiness more sooner than later, well to the point, do you have the manual...OK, this is from the only note on the manual, besides the specs and two or three pics, if I understand correctly there is not such "dedicated headphone amp" mentioned on the text in any place, sorry but this is a completelly wrong supposition, and what I have heard though here, is that they were designed to be driven by a 0 ohms jack, though, and not a high impedance amp BTW, well it says clearly: ".....Connects directly to quality hi-fi components, especially compact disc and digital tape machines....." Most CDPs and a tape machines jacks sound far worst than a jack of an amp...

First of all, I was referring just to the HD600 and CD3000. Of course they're lower end phones aren't made for amps.

Who cares what the manual says? It's common sense. Most people think driven straight out of a normal jack, the volume isn't loud enough. Besides, is there anyone here who purposely doesn't use an amp with the HD600's? I don't think so. All high end headphones are made to be used with an amp. It would be pointless to make them so good if no amp was going to be used. I'm pretty sure Sennheiser assumes most of the people who buy the HD600's will use an amp.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller Sorry, if a company design a headphone with a dedicated headphone amp on mind, they for sure will go out of bussiness more sooner than later

Unless that company makes an entire line of headphones, from portable to home to wireless, most of which don't require an amp

Quote:

well to the point, do you have the manual...OK, this is from the only note on the manual, besides the specs and two or three pics, if I understand correctly there is not such "dedicated headphone amp" mentioned on the text in any place, sorry but this is a completelly wrong supposition

Sov, this is similar to what I talked about before with cables -- of course they're not going to say "this model requires an amp," because, as you pointed out, not everyone has an amp, so the model wouldn't sell well. It may be dishonest, but that's the way it goes -- it's product marketing.

However, a company like Sennheiser has a huge range of headphones, so they can make a "flagship" headphone that isn't limited by requirements like "works well with MP3 player headphone jacks." A 300-ohm headphone is clearly designed to be used with a lot of power and, in fact, several people on Head-Fi who have talked to engineers at Sennheiser have said that they were told the HD 580/600 were designed to be used with an amp (or, at the very least, an out-of-the-ordinary headphone jack).

 

[AdamZuf]

i think i heard that when the R10 came out (80's?), there were no dedicated amps in common (or at all for dynamic headphones? don't know), and they were not designed based on headphones amps.
i just read it, don't kill me if it's false

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Unless that company makes an entire line of headphones, from portable to home to wireless, most of which don't require an amp

yeah. do you guys think that sony makes profit from the R10?
they did their money already

ah wait, i forgot, they can be driven from a portable!

 

[sacd lover]

Sean, last time I checked the lower treble is treble too.

What misconception, I stated the upper midrange / lower treble in the speakers caused a false/ heightened sense of depth that colored all music played throught the speakers. I never mentioned the upper treble. Treble does weaken off axis but what if you sit on axis by turning the speakers inward receiving the direct sound?

The original point was the room warms the sound/ rolls off the treble and this is just not true in every or even most cases. I have rarely had trouble with the sound being to warm. As for this attempt to manipulate the frequency response to lower the upper mids / lower treble, thats a coloration that will affect everything played through the speaker or headphone; and not always for the best. Some music should sound distant, some should not. I dont like that constant distant balance and thats probably why I find senns to bug me.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover I gave you a rational argument and now you *poof* run away. I pointed out the inconsistencies in your statements and you get disrespectful because your emotions have turned off your brain.

What you did was confuse me with someone else. I jumped into the discussion between you and Geek, and you confused me with Geek (whom you were originally discussing with).

I suggest you go back to page 8, 10th post down... begin with that post, read the responses, and please... PAY ATTENTION to usernames so you don't get lost again.

The first post on page 9 (top) was where you originally got off track and started attributing things to me that were said by Geek. You quoted me, but then started talking about things that Geek said, not things that I said.

I really, really hope this helps.

I could say any number of sarcastic things about brains being turned off, but this thread is no longer worth wasting time on.

 

[sacd lover]

My apologies I did confuse you with Geek when you jumped in the thread. But this still doesnt change the fact you are condescending and more concerned with crying about cd 3000 owners being obcessed etc etc than discussing the topic.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Sov, this is similar to what I talked about before with cables -- of course they're not going to say "this model requires an amp," because, as you pointed out, not everyone has an amp, so the model wouldn't sell well. It may be dishonest, but that's the way it goes -- it's product marketing. However, a company like Sennheiser has a huge range of headphones, so they can make a "flagship" headphone that isn't limited by requirements like "works well with MP3 player headphone jacks." A 300-ohm headphone is clearly designed to be used with a lot of power and, in fact, several people on Head-Fi who have talked to engineers at Sennheiser have said that they were told the HD 580/600 were designed to be used with an amp (or, at the very least, an out-of-the-ordinary headphone jack).

Some headphone jacks of amps sound pretty good, MacDEF, BTW, do not understimate them with this "theory" of the afterthought jacks, many amps have not afterthought jacks, and many even being after thought, my amp two Audiosource is one of them (not a dedicated, is an afterthought indeed) sound very good, better than some headphone amps, MGHead included, IMO if the amp is a good one, two resistors coupled at the output, if they are of good quality, IMO will not affect the sound quality that much, I was talking with the AudioSource Amp Two designer and according to him, the output impedance at the jack is 0.01 ohm, almost 0, it drives pretty well the HD600 and the CD3000, both, what happen is also that most of the amps nowadays really suck, I have owned some of the comercial brands around, as I can't afford a really good one, and the sound is horrible, but look at mark's Denon, fine amp...right?
The same people who have told that the Senns was designed for an amp "under the table", probably have said also that it was designed to be driven out of a 0 ohms jack IIRC, so it doesn't matter if is 300ohms impedance it was designed to be driven with low impedance amp....that is why it sounds pretty good out of the RA-1, again that is what I have read here, not sure though, not a high impedance amp.

The R-10 IIRC was designed (and this is answering to another post) with a dedicated amp in mind, they create a whole line of -10 products including a headamp, not very common, and IIRC not a big deal of an amp neither....