Sonarworks Headphone Calibration software

[RudeWolf]

We have thought about implementing HRTF simulation, however currently I'd rather recommend sticking with another plug-in like TB Isone. Doing a proper HRTF solution is very research intensive and there is a lot of work to be done with our current headphone and room correction software, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[SodaBoy]

  We have thought about implementing HRTF simulation, however currently I'd rather recommend sticking with another plug-in like TB Isone. Doing a proper HRTF solution is very research intensive and there is a lot of work to be done with our current headphone and room correction software, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Thanks for the answer. I did think implementing HRTF was a very ambitious idea, but I felt like asking since none of the solutions I have tried so far have provided a good fit.
 
I would also like to add that the Sonarworks UI is really well designed, you should complement your UI guy for a job well done. Soundwise, this software has provided more audible improvement than any other investment I have made in audio other than the actual headphones so pass on the complements to the rest of the team too. I will be sending in a pair of HD800s soon for individual calibration...

 

[riverlethe]

So, I downloaded a trial of the new version for my HD800's...  The calibration sounds way too bassy to me.  I get the impression that they're using a very different calibration curve from the diffuse-field that Sennheiser tried to match.  Does anyone know what curve they're using?  Perhaps a future version could allow selection between industry standard diffuse-field, free-field, the Harman curve, and whatever on earth this program is using.

 

[RudeWolf]

Our curve is not too different from what Harman is using. With that said I can imagine why switching from the standard HD800 signature the sound might feel too dark.
 
You can decrease the bass in the plug-in as well.

 

[riverlethe]

It sounds dark compared to my calibrated stereo system.  Isn't the Harman curve already a "for pleasure" poll?  It seems strange to put another tilt or curve even on top of that, ESPECIALLY for mixing purposes.

 

[riverlethe]

Actually, your measurements for the HD650 show it to be very close to your target curve.  The HD650 is almost never considered a neutral headphone, although I wouldn't argue the desirability of it in mixing or listening - IF the user knows what he's doing.

 

[RudeWolf]

What did you use for calibrating your stereo system?
 
Sure, the HD650 isn't perfectly neutral, no headphone is. It doesn't have the treble peak the HD800 has, which in my opinion makes it a flawed headphone.

 

[sfoclt]

BTW, the update made the extension unusable, but the email workaround got it running agian.

 

[riverlethe]

  What did you use for calibrating your stereo system?
 
Sure, the HD650 isn't perfectly neutral, no headphone is. It doesn't have the treble peak the HD800 has, which in my opinion makes it a flawed headphone.

 
I used RoomEQ Wizard with a UMIK-1.  I only used the limited EQ and PEQ on a Pioneer receiver, but I have two subwoofers, so it's fairly flat down to 20Hz.
 
I agree about the treble peak on the HD800, but the HD650 is equally flawed in the other direction.  Your page advertises, "We'd like to announce the official end of neverending arguments caused by different sound references."  This seems really unlikely, especially when your target curve isn't published or substantiated by research.

 

[SodaBoy]

  Actually, your measurements for the HD650 show it to be very close to your target curve.  The HD650 is almost never considered a neutral headphone, although I wouldn't argue the desirability of it in mixing or listening - IF the user knows what he's doing.

And the HD800s are often considered bright and sibilant despite its strengths.
 
I and many others do not consider diffuse field to be the end all be all. I own both the HD800 and the HD650, and neither headphone are what I'd consider to be perfect or neutral. Wide compatibility with common musical genres is the main criterion by which I discern neutrality of presentation, and the HD800 falls short of where I want it to be in this area. With the Sonarworks target curve, the HD800 became enjoyable with genres that were previously unlistenable such as metal and amplified music in general, and vocals gained proper pitch.
 
As for the HD650 being closer to the Sonarworks target curve, that's true, but in practice the degree of correction in FR does not always intuitively correlate with perceived change due to auditory masking. The HD650 sounded very different post calibration.

 

[riverlethe]

And the HD800s are often considered bright and sibilant despite its strengths.

I and many others do not consider diffuse field to be the end all be all. I own both the HD800 and the HD650, and neither headphone are what I'd consider to be perfect or neutral. Wide compatibility with common musical genres is the main criterion by which I discern neutrality of presentation, and the HD800 falls short of where I want it to be in this area. With the Sonarworks target curve, the HD800 became enjoyable with genres that were previously unlistenable such as metal and amplified music in general, and vocals gained proper pitch.

As for the HD650 being closer to the Sonarworks target curve, that's true, but in practice the degree of correction in FR does not always intuitively correlate with perceived change due to auditory masking. The HD650 sounded very different post calibration.

I think you're getting close to what's bothering me. "Wide compatibility with common musical genres is the main criterion by which I discern neutrality of presentation" is fine for listening enjoyment, but this product is primarily advertised towards studio professionals. Given that most mainstream American recordings sound like absolute garbage, I don't see such a forgiving target curve improving the situation.

Edit: Your preference should be achieved with the tilt or the B&K 1974 optimum Hi-fi Curve. It shouldn't be the default flat setting, as I believe it is now.

 

[riverlethe]

I believe the HD800 sound neutral with the dry/wet knob at about 50%, or the tilt set at -3dB in the bass and +3dB in the treble.  The treble peak on the HD800 is more like 3dB, whereas this curve shows it to be 6-7dB.  If I wanted Beats Studio headphones, I would've bought them!

 

[SodaBoy]

I don't need the B&K 1974 optimum Hi-Fi Curve nor do I need the tilt, and I think I know my own preferences better than you do. As for whether this is "flat" or "neutral", there is no definition. What room response are you aiming for? A live room? A dead room? I have heard many diffuse field headphones such as the Beyers that sounded hot with modern recordings. The Sonarworks curve sounds right compared to my calibrated JBL floorstanders in a typical listening room. I think any mix from this target curve would transfer well to a real world setting.
 
I've tried a drier setting at 63%, and it sounded good but I still prefer it at 100.

 

[riverlethe]

I don't need the B&K 1974 optimum Hi-Fi Curve nor do I need the tilt, and I think I know my own preferences better than you do. As for whether this is "flat" or "neutral", there is no definition. What room response are you aiming for? A live room? A dead room? I have heard many diffuse field headphones such as the Beyers that sounded hot with modern recordings. The Sonarworks curve sounds right compared to my calibrated JBL floorstanders in a typical listening room. I think any mix from this target curve would transfer well to a real world setting.

I've tried a drier setting at 63%, and it sounded good but I still prefer it at 100.

I never implied that you didn't know your own preferences, but there is no controversy as to what constitutes a flat frequency response. Input = output. How this translates to headphones with different head shapes, etc., leaves a lot more room for subjectivity.

May I see the graph of your JBL's?

 

[SodaBoy]

I was talking about flat perceived response, I felt this didn't need to be stated since we are talking about headphones here. There is no agreed upon consensus for a perceived flat response which is why we have so many different target curves.
 
As for the room correction, I don't have the speakers here since I'm abroad which is why I downsized to a headphone rig in the first place. Calibration was done a while ago with TrueRTA and a Behringer ECM8000, run through JRiver convolution, crossed to the sub at 80hz. I A/B'ed it a month ago with the HD650 with avg calibration profile, and it didn't sound "dark" compared to the speakers. The presentation was different, but that was to be expected between headphones and speakers. Anyhow this isn't a speaker discussion, so I'm going to stop there.
 
Without a published target curve, this really just boils down to purely subjective discussion. If you read the earlier discussions, markanini and I were messing around without knowing the target curve before we took it to PM. I have to say, my impressions don't mesh with yours at all, but this wouldn't be the first time in this thread as impressions are all over the place.