[riverlethe]

Agreed, this is purely subjective. Interestingly, my perception matches up almost perfectly with the results from the Harman study:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wzCp-MdU-O8/UXW0GN3AlsI/AAAAAAAAAdk/Cjf-cUIylGY/s1600/Objective+Measurements.png

HP2 is obviously the HD800. They were the second most-preferred headphone in the study, so I really don't think they deviate from neutrality by 6 - 7dB.

 

[RudeWolf]

Erm... It was my understanding that these were the headphones that participated in Olive's test - 
 
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rZSXkMoTbAE/UXWzRENJuHI/AAAAAAAAAdc/UNM3cMfiohc/s1600/HeadphonesTested.png
 
Pretty sure that HP1 is Audeze LCD-2 which tonally is the complete polar opposite of HD800.

 

[riverlethe]

Right. It's LCD-2 Rev. 2, which I believe has less of a treble roll-off than most of the other LCD headphones. "Polar opposites" is quite an audiophile exaggeration.

 

[riverlethe]

Wait, what is HP2, then? K701? The graph even has the little notch in the mid-bass.

 

[riverlethe]

Hopefully, they used the same methodology in both measurements:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=863&graphID[]=3221&scale=30

Edit: K701 even appears "brighter" than the HD800.

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=703&graphID[]=3221&graphID[]=863&scale=30

 

[Music Alchemist]

Since this is the topic of the day...
 
HD 800

 
LCD-2

 
Note that the graphs are mislabeled. The green line is the diffuse-field flat speaker compensation curve while the black line is the Harman curve. You can open the images in a new tab to compare them more directly.

 

[riverlethe]

Can you post a link to the article where you found those? I found another article where Tyll says, "I did modify the curve slightly, however. Above about 5kHz, when I used the Harman curve for compensation, I found the response in that area to be significantly elevated relative to what I hear on the various headphones. I therefore changed the curve a bit by elevating this region about 1dB to 5dB as the response moved from 5kHz to 20kHz.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones#b43IUygt0SVIw6vw.99"

He appears to be making his own arbitrary curve based on sighting listening preference.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Can you post a link to the article where you found those? I found another article where Tyll says, "I did modify the curve slightly, however. Above about 5kHz, when I used the Harman curve for compensation, I found the response in that area to be significantly elevated relative to what I hear on the various headphones. I therefore changed the curve a bit by elevating this region about 1dB to 5dB as the response moved from 5kHz to 20kHz.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-test-estimated-harman-target-response-curve-various-headphones#b43IUygt0SVIw6vw.99"

He appears to be making his own arbitrary curve based on sighting listening preference.

 
My friend superimposed the compensation curves over the InnerFidelity graphs. The black line (Harman curve) is based on listening preference in the first place, since it is an average of what sound people prefer.

 

[riverlethe]

Yes, I'm listening to St. Vincent on the HD800 right now. Not a hint of sibilance or bass shyness - I'm pretty confident in my position that it's the recording quality and not the frequency response of the HD800 that makes them sound bad. I see this program's target curve perpetuating low quality mastering.

 

[riverlethe]

   
My friend superimposed the compensation curves over the InnerFidelity graphs. The black line (Harman curve) is based on listening preference in the first place, since it is an average of what sound people prefer.

 Any way to get these graphs smoothed to 1/3rd octave?  The treble seismograph isn't very helpful.​

 

[Music Alchemist]

Yes, I'm listening to St. Vincent on the HD800 right now. Not a hint of sibilance or bass shyness - I'm pretty confident in my position that it's the recording quality and not the frequency response of the HD800 that makes them sound bad. I see this program's target curve perpetuating low quality mastering.

 
The HD 800 I heard (for a few hours with my own test tracks covering most genres on a MOON Neo430HA amp/DAC) was the brightest, harshest headphone I have ever heard. Did not sound neutral, accurate, or realistic at all. The mids were somewhat lacking. I also could barely hear the bass, even on bass-heavy recordings, and many other headphones have far too much bass for me. It was obviously of a higher caliber than most more affordable headphones, and sounded pretty good as long as there wasn't high frequency content in the music, but it had serious problems. Perhaps different HD 800s have different frequency responses. I dunno. But I can turn the treble knob up all the way on my speaker amp that I use with my STAX, and it's still not as painfully bright as that HD 800 was.
 
You need to listen to all genres of music to hear what a headphone really sounds like.
 

   Any way to get these graphs smoothed to 1/3rd octave?  The treble seismograph isn't very helpful.​

 
No idea.

 

[riverlethe]

   
The HD 800 I heard (for a few hours with my own test tracks covering most genres on a MOON Neo430HA amp/DAC) was the brightest, harshest headphone I have ever heard. Did not sound neutral, accurate, or realistic at all. The mids were somewhat lacking. I also could barely hear the bass, even on bass-heavy recordings, and many other headphones have far too much bass for me. It was obviously of a higher caliber than most more affordable headphones, and sounded pretty good as long as there wasn't high frequency content in the music, but it had serious problems. Perhaps different HD 800s have different frequency responses. I dunno. But I can turn the treble knob up all the way on my speaker amp that I use with my STAX, and it's still not as painfully bright as that HD 800 was.
 
You need to listen to all genres of music to hear what a headphone really sounds like.
 
 

 
Okay, well the measurements you've shown don't support that position.  Can you give an example of one of your test tracks?

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Okay, well the measurements you've shown don't support that position.  Can you give an example of one of your test tracks?

 
They do if you use the Harman curve.

 
(Some say the Harman curve is what you should use for headphones, while the green line is just for speakers.)
 
I used more or less all genres, including very good recordings.
 
Here is an example of a song with cymbals that sounded painfully bright on the HD 800, and deep, strong bass that I could barely hear on the HD 800:
 

 
Blaming it on the recording is just a cop-out. It's absolutely the headphone's fault.

 

[riverlethe]

The black line doesn't support your position.  It shows the LCD2 to have a treble roll-off.  That's the Harman curve, right?

 

[riverlethe]

That is a painfully bright recording on my Klipsch desktop speakers.