Some HOT Science From Synergistic Research
Nov 18, 2014 at 2:20 AM Post #391 of 718

bigshot

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Why are we talking about patents and trade secrets about two plugs connected together with three wires? Are we as crazy as the people trying to sell us this junk?
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 2:42 AM Post #393 of 718

bigshot

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  The sad part is the fact that people have to argue about stuff like this lends it a hugely inflated sense of credibility.


precisely
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 4:27 AM Post #394 of 718

kraken2109

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Well this thread got more interesting. It's always interesting to see some proper analysis of 'interesting' products.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 4:44 AM Post #395 of 718

mulder01

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Have just noticed something.  SR aren't necessarily lying about what HOT does or how it's made...
 
SR's original post about the HOT doesn't actually claim to make a measurable difference.  They keep using the word "subjectively" which means it's effects are perceived differently by different people.  They say things like "HOT dramatically improves the sense that you are listening to an actual sound stage".  They don't say that it alters the electrical signal in a way that improves soundstage, just like they don't say that it's not a placebo effect.  They say that it's a transducer that converts electrical energy to mechanical energy, and it is.  The material in the HOT will vibrate from the electrical current passing through it.  Does this achieve anything?  They don't say that it does, they just say that it happens.  Seems a bit dishonest that a company that sells isolation bases with a view to eliminate mechanical vibration also sells a product specifically designed to create mechanical vibration, but that's another argument.  It is a conductor, and it is passive because it's powered by the current flowing through it.  It may also be a filter because the 'crystals' or whatever they are may not behave the same way across the 20-20kHz range, so more electrical energy may be converted into mechanical energy at different frequencies, allowing more electrical energy to pass at certain frequencies than others, thus, technically it behaves as a filter.  (It's also optimised for headphone use because it has headphone connectors on it).  On many occasions they have been asked to explain how HOT works and how it improves soundstage and they don't, I mean, your perception of space comes from sound reaching your left and right ears at different times, and that information really is in the recording.  Doesn't seems like it it could possibly alter the electrical signal to achieve this effect, but they've never actually attempted to explain how it does, so you can't say that they're lying.  They chose to respond to the comment about the sand material inside not being synthetic, and hey, maybe they make their own sand, and yes, that would be way more expensive to produce than buying normal sand...  
 
You've got your believers in a product like this and you have your skeptics.  The skeptics will ignore it and not buy one, and the believers want it to work and there's a good chance that if you believe in a product, that you will get a subjective difference in enjoyment.  So, they say that most of their customers ("most" meaning they have less than a 50% return rate) are happy with the results, and that's probably true too.  On their Facebook page someone commented "Sounds like snake oil to me..." and SR replied "Yes, snake oil with a 30-day no-risk money back guarantee".  Again, also true.
 
I agree that it's misleading marketing, and it seems quite dishonest, and I have noticed that they word all their comments very carefully and pick and choose what they respond to.  But they're probably not actually lying about most of their customers noticing a subjective improvement in listening enjoyment (possibly due to placebo effect - who can say for sure).  They're also not lying about how it does what it does (behave as a passive conductive transducer that is also a filter) or the fact that they spend a lot of time assembling it by hand.  
 
Did they ever say it improves the electrical signal from your amp to your headphones?  Nope.  Sneaky.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 5:10 AM Post #396 of 718

cdsa35000

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-BREAKING- DIY HOT AND IMPROVED FORMULA
56350e9a_hot.jpeg

Hi, as a broadband AV/computer/home electric engineer, I can see HOT is a would be 3 pole capacitor.
The silver strips are the poles and the dielectric is the magic pixie compound covered with plastic tube, based on the capacitor principles:
http://www.capacitorlab.com/inside-a-capacitor/

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/capacitor/cap_2.html

http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/ac_theory/capacitors01.php

We know capacitance will phase-shift the signal running through and when speakers are connected "wrongly" as out of phase audio will sound spacey as out of the head. (google: in phase vs out of phase speakers)
So possibly the microphonic's crosstalk between the poles creates the phase-shiftings out of the head experience.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr08/articles/phasedemystified.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_time_alignment
---
Now can we DIY HOT much with "improved" magic dust compounds:
We can try these cooling paste:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/mx-4.html

Maybe you dont even need the silver strips, just inject the paste in the inside of the jack connector to fill in/up the 3 pole joints. Let us know your experiment results!
http://www.howtogeek.com/62999/how-to-replace-a-stereo-connector-and-salvage-audio-cables-and-headphones/?PageSpeed=noscript


---
---
If you really want to improve significantly more smoother/impulse/detail/airly/space dimention/control/"out of head" etc. your headphone sound, just solder/replace one of these badassbig mkp's in the stereo output L/R of your headamp.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_mundorf_mkp.html

If there's no money/space you can put a 10uF(or lower)/250V in parallel to the existing output (bi-polar) capacitor of the headamp connected to phonejack output channels L/R.
The bigger xxx uF the better the lower bass response extention will be, otherwise only the high/mid range will be improved.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 7:00 AM Post #397 of 718

mulder01

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If you're right, and it is a capacitive effect, wouldn't the distance between the right+ to ground and left+ to ground wires inside the device be the same, separated over the same distance by a material of the same dielectric constant and therefore have the same value of capacitance and shift the phase angles of both left and right channels by the same amount, so they would still be in phase, just ever so slightly delayed??
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 7:36 AM Post #398 of 718

stv014

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Parallel capacitance would have to be fairly high to make an audible difference, and even then if it is the same on both channels, it would just add treble roll-off. Additionally, most amplifiers that use negative feedback do not like driving capacitors, and if the capacitance is too high, they may become unstable (oscillate).
 
One simple trick to change the sound with passive components in a connector would be to add ground resistance, which results in crosstalk with inverted phase. Or just serial resistance in general, as it adds a slight bass boost to most full size dynamic headphones.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 10:58 AM Post #399 of 718

Steve Eddy

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Update: The second HOT unit was sent out from a purchaser in Europe. Estimated delivery is November 24th. This unit will be used for electrical testing. After which it will be auctioned off and the proceeds donated to a homeless charity per the owner's request.

se
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 12:14 PM Post #400 of 718

castleofargh

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  Have just noticed something.  SR aren't necessarily lying about what HOT does or how it's made...
 
SR's original post about the HOT doesn't actually claim to make a measurable difference.  They keep using the word "subjectively" which means it's effects are perceived differently by different people.  They say things like "HOT dramatically improves the sense that you are listening to an actual sound stage".  They don't say that it alters the electrical signal in a way that improves soundstage, just like they don't say that it's not a placebo effect.  They say that it's a transducer that converts electrical energy to mechanical energy, and it is.  The material in the HOT will vibrate from the electrical current passing through it.  Does this achieve anything?  They don't say that it does, they just say that it happens.  Seems a bit dishonest that a company that sells isolation bases with a view to eliminate mechanical vibration also sells a product specifically designed to create mechanical vibration, but that's another argument.  It is a conductor, and it is passive because it's powered by the current flowing through it.  It may also be a filter because the 'crystals' or whatever they are may not behave the same way across the 20-20kHz range, so more electrical energy may be converted into mechanical energy at different frequencies, allowing more electrical energy to pass at certain frequencies than others, thus, technically it behaves as a filter.  (It's also optimised for headphone use because it has headphone connectors on it).  On many occasions they have been asked to explain how HOT works and how it improves soundstage and they don't, I mean, your perception of space comes from sound reaching your left and right ears at different times, and that information really is in the recording.  Doesn't seems like it it could possibly alter the electrical signal to achieve this effect, but they've never actually attempted to explain how it does, so you can't say that they're lying.  They chose to respond to the comment about the sand material inside not being synthetic, and hey, maybe they make their own sand, and yes, that would be way more expensive to produce than buying normal sand...  
 
You've got your believers in a product like this and you have your skeptics.  The skeptics will ignore it and not buy one, and the believers want it to work and there's a good chance that if you believe in a product, that you will get a subjective difference in enjoyment.  So, they say that most of their customers ("most" meaning they have less than a 50% return rate) are happy with the results, and that's probably true too.  On their Facebook page someone commented "Sounds like snake oil to me..." and SR replied "Yes, snake oil with a 30-day no-risk money back guarantee".  Again, also true.
 
I agree that it's misleading marketing, and it seems quite dishonest, and I have noticed that they word all their comments very carefully and pick and choose what they respond to.  But they're probably not actually lying about most of their customers noticing a subjective improvement in listening enjoyment (possibly due to placebo effect - who can say for sure).  They're also not lying about how it does what it does (behave as a passive conductive transducer that is also a filter) or the fact that they spend a lot of time assembling it by hand.  
 
Did they ever say it improves the electrical signal from your amp to your headphones?  Nope.  Sneaky.


of course they aren't lying. they are not idiots.
in fact the double language of the hot page was the very first thing that made me suspicious. they take good care to not talk about anything real with a clear definition, all the improvements are indeed on a subjective domain so when people complain about it, they can juggle with the definition of such subjective words and not risk any legal pursuit.
it's like what you can get from some shameless cable makers who will tell you all about how much more air, soundstage, and natural you can get. none of those words meaning anything.
because if they were to say you'll get a 5db improvement in crosstalk, +0.2db in trebles at 18khz, and lower phase shift, they would be accountable for those claims.
it's marketing pure and simple with nothing to fear is you don't deliver.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 1:19 PM Post #401 of 718

bigshot

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HOT is definitely a transducer. It converts hot air into hard cash.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 4:16 PM Post #402 of 718

Armaegis

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I was almost gonna offer to do some electron microscopy, but it looks like I've been beaten to it. Interesting read gentlemen.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 4:18 PM Post #403 of 718

Billheiser

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I actually tried their HFT devices.  Worked very well when I put them up on the walls as prescribed, and listened.  Better depth, soundstage, deep bass, bloom, I thought.  Then my buddy and I took turns listening with eyes closed, not knowing when the devices were installed or not.  Result: neither of us could tell when they were on the walls versus when they were packed away in their box in another room.
I.e., they did not work.
 
Power of suggestion is a powerful thing.
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 7:31 PM Post #404 of 718

SilverEars

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-BREAKING- DIY HOT AND IMPROVED FORMULA

Hi, as a broadband AV/computer/home electric engineer, I can see HOT is a would be 3 pole capacitor.
The silver strips are the poles and the dielectric is the magic pixie compound covered with plastic tube, based on the capacitor principles:
http://www.capacitorlab.com/inside-a-capacitor/

We know capacitance will phase-shift the signal running through and when speakers are connected "wrongly" as out of phase audio will sound spacey as out of the head. (google: in phase vs out of phase speakers)
So possibly the microphonic's crosstalk between the poles creates the phase-shiftings out of the head experience.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr08/articles/phasedemystified.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker_time_alignment
---
Now can we DIY HOT much with "improved" magic dust compounds:
We can try these cooling paste:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/mx-4.html

Maybe you dont even need the silver strips, just inject the paste in the inside of the jack connector to fill in/up the 3 pole joints. Let us know your experiment results!
http://www.howtogeek.com/62999/how-to-replace-a-stereo-connector-and-salvage-audio-cables-and-headphones/?PageSpeed=noscript

If you really want to improve significantly more smoother/impulse/detail/airly/space dimention/control/"out of head" etc. your headphone sound, just solder/replace one of these badassbig mkp's in the stereo output L/R of your headamp.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_mundorf_mkp.html

If there's no money/space you can put a 10uF(or lower)/250V in parallel to the existing output (bi-polar) capacitor of the headamp connected to phonejack output channels L/R.
The bigger xxx uF the better the lower bass response extention will be, otherwise only the high/mid range will be improved.

Interesting.  Phase shift would create a soundstage like affect if the L and R channels are out of phase.  So one channel is connected to the capacitor creating phase mismatch?  This could explain what is heard.  As far as crosstalk, it would create sound stage like affects also.  At least we now know there was some intentions behind it now.
 
Waiting for SE's electrical test results.
popcorn.gif
 But, would we get good measurements given the thing is tore up now?
 
Nov 18, 2014 at 8:10 PM Post #405 of 718

dclaz

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  Interesting.  Phase shift would create a soundstage like affect if the L and R channels are out of phase.  So one channel is connected to the capacitor creating phase mismatch?  This could explain what is heard.  As far as crosstalk, it would create sound stage like affects also.  At least we now know there was some intentions behind it now.
 
Waiting for SE's electrical test results.
popcorn.gif
 But, would we get good measurements given the thing is tore up now?

He has obtained another one from an owner.
 

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