[ProtoBlues]

The crossover is all setup. It sounds great! It's way better than my sub's internal crossover. There are still some overtones coming through it, but the overall sound's really cleaned up. I highly recommend this to anyone that needs a small form factor crossover solution. Thanks to everyone that helped me out with this! ^_^ I hope to get a preamp from your suggestions in the near future.

---

Please read the updates at the end of this post and last few posts of the thread before posting to avoid repeating.
 
I currently use Windows Volume Control to adjust my volume, which I guess makes it the "preamp," if you will. I've read about how not setting this to between 80%-100% (sometimes 80%-90%) can possibly affect audio quality. I have no way to control my sub volume and speaker volume together, other than Windows Volume Control. In addition to this, if I set Windows to max volume and use the knob on my speakers, they are extremely loud once the pot is turned enough that all the frequencies kick in, but it doesn't matter, as I can't control the sub's volume this way.
 
I would like to be able to have an external control for volume and be able to leave Windows Volume set at the aforementioned ranges, as that's what I read it should be set to. I also read that your volume shouldn't be adjusted this early in the signal chain to prevent interference and noise.
 
Here is the signal chain as it stands:
Windows Volume Control --> Essence STX RCA --> Speakers --> Sub
                                                      |
                                       Essence STX 6.4 mm Phones --> Headphones
 
Here's my setup:
Soundcard - Asus Essence STX with UNi drivers
Speakers - Audioengine A5
Sub - Outlaw Audio M8
Headphones - AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition
 
Is what I'm asking for even possible, or am I stuck using Windows as a preamp at ridiculously low levels (10% and below) to control speakers/sub and headphones? I use Windows 7, so I don't have to worry about bit stripping...so I've heard.
​
​
​Edit
​It was confirmed that what I'm looking for is a passive volume control. All the passive volume controls I've found cost around $50. I'm willing to spend that much, if I have to, plus a little more for an adapter or two. I'm not looking to spend much more than that however. I'm still open to suggestions though.
 
Is there anyone out there that has used a passive volume control after their soundcard to control volume? Did you need an amp because the signal was greatly diminished after coming out of it? I'm being told I might need one. This is getting very confusing.
 
Update 1
Alright, so what I need is a DAC-preamp, because I want to control the speakers' levels as well. It's DAC, headphone amp, and preamp all-in-one. According to MindsMirror, introducing a resistor in-between the amp and the output is a no-go, as the amp would now drive the resistor, not the phones. The headphone signal needs to be controlled directly by the amp. ProtegeManiac theorizes that the impedance on the A5's inputs is too low for the voltage of the signal coming out of the STX. This is probably correct.
 
Thank you to everyone for helping me understand this better.
 
Update 2
The purpose of this thread has changed. So, apparently what I need to accomplish this is a DAC and a headphone amp with a preamp. I'm open to suggestions. I'd prefer a DAC that is comparable or better than the Burr-Brown PCM 1792A on my STX. The idea of a downgrade isn't appetizing, plus I can use this in future setups. Support up to 24-bit/192 KHz preferred. Since this will be used for gaming as well, SPDIF input is a must for DSP. An upgrade would be welcomed, but I know my budget probably limits that. Let's see what's available at this range first.
 
Update 3
Alright, the goal has changed, once again. I'm not really willing to spend the money on a DAC and a phones amp/preamp, so, I'm just looking for the latter right now. I'm quite satisfied with the DAC on the STX for now. So far, we have the Schiit Magni as a candidate. It has a preamp out, and switches to phones whenever they're jacked in. Can anyone comment on its quality/your experience with it? Do you have any other suggestions? I'm trying to research myself, but some personal experience might help push me in the right direction. I don't know if the STX has any major coloration to the sound, but the amp on it is the only amp's sound I am accustomed to.
 
Update 4
It's also come to my attention that I need a crossover to keep my sub truly from producing mids. Since form factor is a problem, the only one that fits my needs currently is the Rolls SX45 Stereo Two-Way Mini Crossover, unless there is something else out there. A rack unit or AVR isn't practical right now. Space is the reason. With it being October, regarding the phones amp/preamp, maybe I can wait for a sale and get the Asgard 2 instead.
 
Update 5
OK, so I've been researching obobskivich's suggestions and found some of my own during my research, and the Emotiva DC-1 is looking more and more attractive. Most of the devices I researched are too expensive, but this helped easily narrow down contenders. I know I stated my budget, and this goes over my original budget, but with the Christmas season coming soon, and the DC-01 being I can spend a little more. (Nah, I just don't know how to spoil myself. It's been a long time.)
 
Update 6
I bought the Rolls SX45. I'm going to have to hold off on the preamp/headamp combo for the time being though. At least my sub will only be doing what it's meant to do.

 

[MindsMirror]

What you're looking for is called a passive volume control. The Schiit SYS is one, although I'm hesitant to recommend it to you since you didn't mention needing two inputs, and $50 seems expensive to me if you're just using it as a single control, you're paying mostly for the nice looking metal case. I'm sure there are cheaper options that work just as well for a single control, I'm just not aware of them. People here on head-fi love reccomending Schiit products, you hear the SYS being recommended all the time even if it's not precisely what someone needs.
 
The drawback of lowering the windows volume is that it lowers the signal to noise ratio. If you can lower the windows volume while raising your speaker's volume equally, and you still cannot hear the noise floor, then it's not actually an issue for you. If you find that you have a significant margin where you can lower the volume even further before hearing any noise, I'd say don't bother with a passive volume control, your sound card's noise floor is sufficiently low that it doesn't matter.

 

[ProtoBlues]

I thought that's what it was! I had posted about this in a tech forum, but they were extremely unhelpful and downright condescending about why I'd ever want such a thing. I was considering the Schiit SYS, but it only has one output. I need two outputs: one for speakers, one for the headphones. Otherwise, I would have to use a splitter on the single out, and a TRS to RCA converter on the headphone jack, and then an RCA to TRS converter on the output after the splitter or just resign to controlling the headphones via Windows. As you can see, this starts to get a bit convoluted, and makes me wonder if it's more work than it's worth. Not to mention the potential signal degradation from the splitting.
 
The STX has a 124dB SNR, a very big boasting point for it when it was released. If it's best to just leave things as they are, how should I set the volume on my speakers? I heard set everything to 12 o'clock but I'm not sure if that would apply in this scenario. Also, in this case, I was thinking of getting something like the Griffin Powermate, as I feel my G510's volume wheel isn't sensitive enough. It is true that we don't have to worry about resolution loss like in XP so I'm not losing anything if I wind up using it for volume control, right? The sites I found don't explain it in plain English, so it's difficult to understand.
 
I appreciate your honest and level-headed response. I always try to make sure I get alternate opinions to avoid groupthink, but I will keep in mind what you said when seeking recommendations on here.
 
If anyone else has something to share, please, by all means.

 

[MindsMirror]

  It is true that we don't have to worry about resolution loss like in XP so I'm not losing anything if I wind up using it for volume control, right? The sites I found don't explain it in plain English, so it's difficult to understand.

I believe Windows 7 and up uses 32bit float to process audio, which won't lose resolution by changing the volume, but the signal ultimately must go to a DAC and an analog stage which have a fixed bit depth and noise floor. So by decreasing the signal level coming from your PC you are still lowering the SNR, which is what resolution loss does.
 
If you are using Windows to control the volume, I would first set windows to 100% and then set your speaker or headphone amp to the loudest you will need, then leave them there and lower the Windows volume to get the right loudness. That should give you the best SNR without ever having to adjust the speakers.
 
Using a splitter for your setup is not such a bad thing. Splitters will degrade the sound quality if you use it to split a signal directly to two loads, such as speakers or headphones, because the loads can interact with each other electrically and cause distortion. However there is no issue using a splitter to two amp inputs. If you can find a clean solution that uses a splitter, it should work just fine.

 

[ProtoBlues]

I don't think I've tried that, but being that with Windows set to 100%, I can still hear out of the speakers with them turned down all the way, just not their full range. I'm not sure how practical this will be, as I have to up it enough that the dial is turned to its usable range, which makes them deafening. So the actual usable range of volume control would be barely anything...even from Windows.
 
The card must be switched over for the onboard headphone amp, so I'm not sure if this would count as splitting to two direct loads if I had to on the in or out. So then, there would be two possible setups

• Two inputs - I would need to use a TRS>RCA converter on the headphones and then a splitter and RCA>TRS converter on the out. Would also need to switch the card to the headphone amp and switch the signal on the preamp, but I'm OK with this.
• Two outputs - I need a TRS>RCA converter plugged into a 4 to 2 adapter to shove two outputs on the card into a single input on the preamp. As you can see, this begins to get messy real fast.

 
OK, maybe just one. I've never seen anything that combines a signal like I'm describing. I'm not even sure that exists...short of a mixer. I will update this post with how your Windows solution works out.
​
​Update
​Alright, I tried what you recommended, and now that I have, I'm pretty sure this is how I setup my speaker levels before. At 100% in Windows, the sound is just deafening...even before the dial is turned to its workable range. I might as well be the Maxell guy. I can't truly match up the sub until the weekend. (I deal with enough noise hazards at work.) It's hardly turned past Off (7:00). I tried to match the same setting on my sub, but it's difficult without seeing the dial. The practical range in Windows has increased though. Haven't tested what the top limit of that would be yet.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I currently use Windows Volume Control to adjust my volume, which I guess makes it the "preamp," if you will. I've read about how not setting this to between 80%-100% (sometimes 80%-90%) can possibly affect audio quality. I have no way to control my sub volume and speaker volume together, other than Windows Volume Control. In addition to this, if I set Windows to max volume and use the knob on my speakers, they are extremely loud once the pot is turned enough that all the frequencies kick in, but it doesn't matter, as I can't control the sub's volume this way.
 
I would like to be able to have an external control for volume and be able to leave Windows Volume set at the aforementioned ranges, as that's what I read it should be set to. I also read that your volume shouldn't be adjusted this early in the signal chain to prevent interference and noise.
 
Here is the signal chain as it stands:
Windows Volume Control --> Essence STX RCA --> Speakers --> Sub
                                                      |
                                       Essence STX 6.4 mm Phones --> Headphones
 
Here's my setup:
Soundcard - Asus Essence STX with UNi drivers
Speakers - Audioengine A5
Sub - Outlaw Audio M8
 
Is what I'm asking for even possible, or am I stuck using Windows as a preamp at ridiculously low levels (10% and below) to control speakers/sub and headphones? I use Windows 7, so I don't have to worry about bit stripping...so I've heard.

 

  I don't think I've tried that, but being that with Windows set to 100%, I can still hear out of the speakers with them turned down all the way, just not their full range. I'm not sure how practical this will be, as I have to up it enough that the dial is turned to its usable range, which makes them deafening. So the actual usable range of volume control would be barely anything...even from Windows.
 
The card must be switched over for the onboard headphone amp, so I'm not sure if this would count as splitting to two direct loads if I had to on the in or out. So then, there would be two possible setups

• Two inputs - I would need to use a TRS>RCA converter on the headphones and then a splitter and RCA>TRS converter on the out. Would also need to switch the card to the headphone amp and switch the signal on the preamp, but I'm OK with this.
• Two outputs - I need a TRS>RCA converter plugged into a 4 to 2 adapter to shove two outputs on the card into a single input on the preamp. As you can see, this begins to get messy real fast.

 
OK, maybe just one. I've never seen anything that combines a signal like I'm describing. I'm not even sure that exists...short of a mixer. I will update this post with how your Windows solution works out.

 

The easiest way to do all these is get a DAC with SPDIF inputs and a headphone amp with preamp outputs (or a DAC-HPamp unit with all those features). DSP can process virtual surround for your headphones and runs the SPDIF output (so the processing isn't bypassed), that goes into the DAC, then into the headphone amp section and from there it can go through the preamp and then out the rear preamp outputs to the speakers, or go through the amp output stage to drive headphones.

 

The least expensive but still has a capable headphone amp if you need it are the Schiit Modi2 Uber and Magni2/Magni2 Uber/Vali2, or the AudioGD NFB-11.

 

[ProtoBlues]

This suggestion sounds like it will cost a bit. I'd rather not spend much money on this. It doesn't seem worth the trouble at this point. Maybe when I have to get new speakers. I have the Audioengine A5, and I hear it dies eventually, because of heat due to an insufficient heatsink. (Should've got the Swans.) Thank you for your suggestion anyway.
 
All the passive volume controls I've found cost around $50. I'm willing to spend that much, if I have to, plus a little more for an adapter or two.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProtoBlues /img/forum/go_quote.gif

This suggestion sounds like it will cost a bit. I'd rather not spend much money on this. It doesn't seem worth the trouble at this point. Maybe when I have to get new speakers. I hear the A5 dies eventually, because of heat due to an insufficient heatsink. Thank you for your suggestion anyway.

 

All the passive volume controls I've found cost around $50. I'm willing to spend that much, if I have to, plus a little more for an adapter or two.

 

The thing is you want to control the headphone's volume with anything but Windows volume control, which means that the analogue circuit it will be hooked up to will need to have a headphone amp. Since that comes with a preamp anyway, some come with a preamp output.

 

There are cheaper devices like the UDAC-3, but the problem there is that it works via USB, bypassing the soundcard completely and you get no benefits from its DSP.

 

[ProtoBlues]

The STX has a headphone amp. Wouldn't it be redundant to add an amp? Set Windows to 0dB (which in my case is 100%) and control through the passive control is the idea for both speakers and phones on the rare occasion I use them. Signal has already been amped.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProtoBlues /img/forum/go_quote.gif

The STX has a headphone amp. Wouldn't it be redundant to add an amp? Set Windows to 0dB (which in my case is 100%) and control through the passive control is the idea for both speakers and phones on the rare occasion I use them. Signal has already been amped.

 

Normally in amplifier designs the preamp/potentiometer comes before the final output stage. I'm not sure how that will affect how well the amplifier on the soundcard works, but using a passive preamp in this way while it won't affect the voltage of the signal apart from the control, it might affect the output impedance. Meaning the passive preamp might have an output impedance that is even higher than the soundcard's, making damping factor worse. If you really want to do all this on the cheap you might as well just spend nothing and use Windows volume control on both speakers and headphones, or use Windows on the headphone and then just stand up and reach for the knob on the A5.

 

[ProtoBlues]

Stand up and reach for the knob? What? This doesn't make any sense. The speakers and sub are controlled through Windows currently, as well as the headphones and at 100%, they are extremely loud.  Well above safe listening volumes. (I'd probably blow out the headphones at 100%.) I have maybe a degree or two of turning space on the knob, so this won't work. I haven't used my phone to measure the noise intensity, but it must be at least 90dB at 100%.
 
Let's take the SYS for this example:
 
Input impedance: 10k ohms
Output Impedance: 5k ohms maximum
 
I can't find any official source for the STX's impedance ratings, so let's just say:
Line Out Impedance: 100 ohms
Phones Out Impedance: 10 ohms
 
K702 Annie Impedance: 62 ohms
 
You're saying the signal would be reduced so much that an amp would be necessary, to drive my headphones, correct...possibly my speakers/sub too? My electronics knowledge is very basic. I know a little about resistance, but not how this applies in audio signal transmission. Wouldn't the output impedance be controlled by the variable resistor, which is the pot?
 
 
Is there anyone out there that has used a passive volume control after their soundcard to control volume? Did you need an amp because the signal was greatly diminished after coming out of it?

 

[MindsMirror]

Don't use a passive volume control like the SYS directly on your headphones. It uses a voltage divider, where the top resistor (serveral KOhms at least) is always in the signal path.  It works fine for an amp input because the input is much higher impedance (~1MOhms). But that serveral KOhms is very significant compared to your low impedance headphones, even on max volume, your headphones will only receive maybe 1% of the voltage from the amp. The damping will also be terrible. Don't do it, it's bad.

 

[ProtoBlues]

You speak from experience or know someone that tried this? The STX has a headphone amp, so that would be going into the input. I would need to split the output though, as it only has one. Would this still yield the same results you're speaking of?
 
What about other passive controls like the Emotiva Control Freak (which is nearly impossible to find unbalanced anymore)?

 

[MindsMirror]

I speak from experience as an electrical engineer. Your better off just using the windows volume control than putting any kind of passive volume crontrol between your amp and headphones.

 

[ProtoBlues]

I see...I guess that puts that to rest. u_u What if I just use a volume control for the speakers and sub and then just run headphones straight out of the card?
 
By the way, here's how I have things set to run:
PC - 24-bits at 192 KHz
Soundcard - 24-bits at 192 KHz
 
I actually only just recently set the card to this. I used to run at 24-bits at 44.1 KHz. Then I read an article about Windows Audio upsampling to 32-bit floating point, and your card downsamples to the best it can support. I have no idea what I was thinking! >_< Everything sounds so much richer and fuller now!