[PointyFox]

Well sir then you just saved a ton of money!!
Enjoy the music!!

:>)

Nah, I ended up getting something twice the price.

 

[moriez]

You could look at the Audio-gd R2R-11 Mk2 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-gd-r2r-11.859278/

The Mk2 posts start around page 33, I think. A bit more than you wanted to spend, though.

Appreciate it. Though the size and to be honest the looks of Audio-GD products kind of puts me off.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Appreciate it. Though the size and to be honest the looks of Audio-GD products kind of puts me off.

They have industrial builds but that goes inside as well as out. Audio-gd has become my favorite brand over the last couple of years.

 

[sajunky]

Appreciate it. Though the size and to be honest the looks of Audio-GD products kind of puts me off.

Pick up an used R2R-11 on ebay $250. If you don't like R2R NOS sound, it can be sold at the same price. It is a price I got mine, I will never sell it.


If you have a good S/PDIFsource, R2R-11 will work well in any system, with wide range of headphones. Not everyone like NOS sound, but music can be upsampled on PC with better quality than it is done inside DAC. However on the R2R-11 you don't need to upsample unless your power amp is rigged with cheap electronics, as high frequency NOS images put cheap electronics on stress. It is why you need a good amp downstream, discrete class AB, no opamps. R2R-11 has no opamps in the audio path, it is a real gem in the price range below $1k.

USB connection require further comment. It can sound very well or not, depends on your system. I had been disappointed initially, but I know how to deal with ground loops. I tell you this on the beginning, as a typical music source is PC, it is a hudge source of noise. I use my own methods to get rid of a noise, but you can use commercial ground loop redirectors like iFi Defender. Be prepaired for an extra expense, as with noise "every DAC sounds the same", I hear such statement frequently.

 

[lostrockets]

Pick up an used R2R-11 on ebay $250. If you don't like R2R NOS sound, it can be sold at the same price. It is a price I got mine, I will never sell it.


If you have a good S/PDIFsource, R2R-11 will work well in any system, with wide range of headphones. Not everyone like NOS sound, but music can be upsampled on PC with better quality than it is done inside DAC. However on the R2R-11 you don't need to upsample unless your power amp is rigged with cheap electronics, as high frequency NOS images put cheap electronics on stress. It is why you need a good amp downstream, discrete class AB, no opamps. R2R-11 has no opamps in the audio path, it is a real gem in the price range below $1k.

USB connection require further comment. It can sound very well or not, depends on your system. I had been disappointed initially, but I know how to deal with ground loops. I tell you this on the beginning, as a typical music source is PC, it is a hudge source of noise. I use my own methods to get rid of a noise, but you can use commercial ground loop redirectors like iFi Defender. Be prepaired for an extra expense, as with noise "every DAC sounds the same", I hear such statement frequently.

How does the audio gd compare to soekris?

Also re usb noise i had a problem with my usb out from desktop computer, even with defender it was still present. Switched to optical and problem went away

 

[iFi audio]

Well sir then you just saved a ton of money!!

Was about to write the same thing

 

[adydula]

Was about to write the same thing

Lol..ur fast but not that fast ...

 

[sajunky]

How does the audio gd compare to soekris?

Also re usb noise i had a problem with my usb out from desktop computer, even with defender it was still present. Switched to optical and problem went away

I prefer Audio GD with discrete non-feedback electronics (even this basic model), then Denafrips with passive output (still no opamps), Soekris comes the last.

In contrary to the advertising Defender is not plug&play tool, you still need to know how to use, specifically it should not be selling without external power supply and there are rules how to lay down cables. Ground loops are not easy to get rid off, it is why DDC is getting popular. Defender is just a basic tool, I don't push everyone to buy DDC.

An alternative to the iDefender is a poorman DDC, I own it and use when needed, it is convenient tool.

 

[lostrockets]

I prefer Audio GD with discrete non-feedback electronics (even this basic model), then Denafrips with passive output (still no opamps), Soekris comes the last.

In contrary to the advertising Defender is not plug&play tool, you still need to know how to use, specifically it should not be selling without external power supply and there are rules how to lay down cables. Ground loops are not easy to get rid off, it is why DDC is getting popular. Defender is just a basic tool, I don't push everyone to buy DDC.

An alternative to the iDefender is a poorman DDC, I own it and use when needed, it is convenient tool.

makes sense on the defender.

were you able to ab test the 3 dacs?

when i had the ares and the soekris, in my ab tests it was very difficult to tell a difference between two.

curious what makes the audio gd stand out most for you ? was it a night and day difference ?

 

[moriez]

Pick up an used R2R-11 on ebay $250. If you don't like R2R NOS sound, it can be sold at the same price. It is a price I got mine, I will never sell it.

Well.. the R2R-11 is not as bulky as their larger models, close to the 1421, and the price a comfortable starting point. Might give it a shot based on your enthusiasm.

you don't need to upsample unless your power amp is rigged with cheap electronics, as high frequency NOS images put cheap electronics on stress.

Ehh.. sounds like you're way in deeper than I am. Can you clarify at say difficulty level 2/10 please?

 

[hpamdr]

I own Soekris DAC 1541 and 2451. The USB isolation is quite good and even if i had some regen or similar on previous DAC the benefit on 2451 is more than questionable.
Soren made a great Job focusing on efficiency and sound quality specially with the 2451. It does not need any fancy USB Cleaner nor external power-supply, it is a precise, transparent and dynamic DAC without colored tone. This is probably why some prefer Audio-GD to have a more R2R/NOS type of sound.

With 1541, you can set custom filter even NOS which gives this special sound specially with Red Book files. (Unfortunately 2451 do not support custom filters)

I made some A/B comparison on a high End audio shop near my place with Metrum Acoustic / Schiit / Chord and using same source (Daphile on laptop) and with MoodWright SE150 and Magnepan 3.7i / also with my Euphoria amp with T1. The 1541 was not a clear winner but the best compromise for me and this is mainly why i jumped with 2451. (The owner is a friend and he did not commented any audition to sell me anything he just give me some time and DACs)

 

[moriez]

it is a precise, transparent and dynamic DAC without colored tone.

Describes the 1321 and 1421 too as I heard it. Transparent in particular, with rather juuust a percentile of sweetness than a percentile of shrillness. Winners in the right config.

 

[adeadcrab]

I love my Soekris 1421, it was an upgrade to the Topping D50 which I bought before more extensive understanding of measurements...
Happy to stay with it even after my next few future purchases (Burson GT amp, more headphones etc) but as some point I believe it may start being the bottleneck in my system.

1421 has a nice clean tone, my one gripe is the not-so-wide soundstage and depth. It is not congested and narrow like the Topping but if I add a preamp the sound opens up immensely.
Has anyone tried the 2541 and, say, the Yggdrasil? Namely the LIM version. Would like a wider soundstage before adding more gear to make it so.

 

[sajunky]

makes sense on the defender.

were you able to ab test the 3 dacs?

when i had the ares and the soekris, in my ab tests it was very difficult to tell a difference between two.

curious what makes the audio gd stand out most for you ? was it a night and day difference ?

A/B not and each time it was in different configuration. For comparison were available only Delta-Sigma DACs. To be clear, I came out from long time resisting CD players. PCM-63 implementation with Pacific Micronics filter was the first accepted with some reservation. Didn't look back after doing some DIY mods. When it was stolen, I thought I would be happy with current Delta-Sigma offers and made few mistakes not realizing of being R2R fan.

I found Soekris in the semi-private showroom. It was clearly superior against other offerings and I thought that it would be an ideal choice, as it had some reverbation on a decay, and a hint of a natural sound I like very much. However after 15 minutes I noticed digital ?traces? in the sound, missing a grass during fast transients. It is the same things that keeps me away from DS DACs I heard. A dominant tone takes over and a background dissappears for a moment. Ares had no such problem, it had smooth sound and completely fatigue free, we had a whole evening, chatting on unrelated matters... and drinking a beer. It has a similar character to my portable Nobsound 8xTDA1387 (which I also used on desktop), but a class or two above in refinement. Having engineering background, I picked up it was a passive output giving a difference.

I would definitely buy Ares if I had no occasion for a second hand R2R-11, received by mail order, no prior testing. A clear advantage over Ares is NOS. Not smooth, but a raw hard slam character, not limited by electronic buffer working in pure Class A with 0 interstage feedback. The I/V conversion is made with ACSS link, the same technology used in Audio GD upper level DACs. It is worth to mention that this hard slam is fully textured, it is full body, but it doesn't hide details, similar to a good tube amp, it should pair well with, BTW.

My English is poor, not to mention audiophile terminology, so please excuse. If you want to compare sound of Denafrips with Audio GD, the best description is here. Both companies have consistent house of sound across models, a difference is just in refinement.

Ehh.. sounds like you're way in deeper than I am. Can you clarify at say difficulty level 2/10 please?

Not sure I will explain it clearly enough without pictures and tutorials. D/A conversion produce a required sound in the audio spectrum (0 to 20kHz in the case of CD) and also a repeating mirror images starting just above a half of the sampling rate. These images are fuly correlated with a sound, so when this high frequency content intermodulate on the downstream equipment, its products leak to the audio band, it is heard as a very unpleasant harshness.

CD NOS images start a 22.05 kHz, it is very difficult to filter out, as images have high energy very close to the audio band. Therefore there is a strict requirement on the amplifiers to have distortion-free range range at least 100kHz. In other words, a top notch downstream amp is required.

A second approach is to upsample few times, by example if 4 times, then the first image starts above 88.2 kHz. It is much easier to filter such unwanted energy, leads to less itermodulation and allows to use common integrated amplifiers with satifying results. If we apply the same audio amplification to the NOS DAC, results can be worse than with OS. A prime example is Soekris. It offered a firmware with NOS filter, I didn't hear any positive feedback amoung NOS fans.

A digital signal processing shape a signal before conversion to further limit unwanted spectrum. Problem with this approach is a limited power of the processor, leading to digital artefacts, timing inconsistency and untrue complex harmonics. Oversampling is also sensitive to the inter-sample overloads, poor recordings are clipped.

 

[hpamdr]

A prime example is Soekris. It offered a firmware with NOS filter, I didn't hear any positive feedback amoung NOS fans.

We are on a Soekris thread and you should verify what you state ! Soren never provided any firmware with NOS filter. He just offer the possibility to upload custom filters in dac prior to 2451. You can find specific info here ! Soekris DAC are not NOS DAC so who care about NOS fans !

I owned in the past (10 years ago) an Aya II It was a perfect DAC at my ears when i was only using CDs from CD63 transport and a Quad 306 amplifier. At the end I'm not anymore a NOS addict nor a vinyl fan as all my music is on File and old Dacs are not flexible enough for my usage. I'm getting too old to look on the mirror.
A good system is a synergy between component and compromise on what you can get. At the end, you should just enjoy music and stay in your price tag ! Soekris 1451/2451 are good choice for me.

Base your choice on technical details and measurement, add mystical belief on cable is for me the best way to spend your life in chasing the perfect setup and never be happy with what you can afford.