[Shike]

Quote:

I suspect you guys just have a bone to pick with amb, and that's why you guys are burning him. So unless you were there when he made the measurements, and clearly saw him fudge them up, you should just let it go. His set of measurements are just that, a set of measurements. It's up to others to measure it as well, and it's not so much that his might be wrong, but as with any scientific experiment, you need a bunch of samples to see the whole story.

The fact is that his measurements were done wrong and are physically impossible - this is mathematically proven (at least with the Mini^3).  I've done the measurements myself and confirmed that the crosstalk of the Mini^3 was grossly overstated getting roughly the same numbers NwAvGuy got.  He clearly pooched his dummy loads since there was a negligible difference for crosstalk into corresponding loads.  He also doesn't know what batteries he even used to measure the Mini^3 with, but doesn't go back to check to see if the numbers he's publishing are accurate based on the average build being both optimistic and misleading.
 
Whether we were there when he made his measurements are irrelevant.  The fact is, he refuses to fix his numbers when his mistakes have been brought to light and makes various cop-outs refusing to really discuss the matter at hand.  Rather than admit he made a (hopefully honest) mistake he tries to sweep dirt under the rug and continue.  So yes, I do have a bone to pick with him - but no one's burning him but himself.
 
Anyway, let's do something else like drink Dr. Pepper since AMB really has 0 to do with this thread.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

 
Oh noes it's impossible to be an objective sentient being, nothing can be observed to be perfect or true since our very nature of existence and non-linear vision can never be perfect or true?
 
Just hold on a sec while I set fire to my local university and library and then sniff glue at the beach for the rest of the day.
 
 

you are a bit of a child arent you?
 
yes sorry it IS impossible to be objective as a being that only has subjective experience/perspective, doesnt mean we cant pretend and we've come a long way doing so, but all i'm saying is its possible to be too confident in what amounts to belief, not objective fact. i dont yet believe yesterdays events are proven and they did the right thing opening it up to scrutiny, but if it is it will change things massively, does it mean our learning is a lie? no of course not, but does a thing that is at the heart of so much 'objective fact' create doubt about its accuracy and open up possibility to things previously though crazy talk? you bet it does.
 
haha maybe you better go get another can of 'smart drink' maybe we should go through your reviews and check for objective accuracy?
 

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

 
Anyway, let's do something else like drink Dr. Pepper since AMB really has 0 to do with this thread.

I'll let it go, just think about how much better the DIY community would have been if Lord Voldemort was a nice guy and chose to work with the community rather than try and take over the world.
 
I miss Dr. Pepper, they used to make some here in Australia but it's long gone now.

They have some at the Costco here but I swear it's not quite the same as I remembered.

 

[kiteki]

 
Imho being obnoxious or over-confident is totally different to being objective.
 
Imho claiming one has "found" an objective truth is obnoxious, the point is attempting to find it, or come as close as possible to it, as an attitude, or you know simply accepting that "it exists".
 
I interpreted your comment that it does not exist, sorry it's just I keep seeing people imply that audio is super subjective and the only right thing to do is embrace that or something? I just don't get it it's a bit annoying.
 

 

[kiteki]

 
btw qusp if you think the name "objective2" is obnoxious or you have a problem with my prose you could just say so instead of making clever remarks about energy drinks?
 
I don't really see what's wrong with the shoebox idea, I'd be happy to attend a meet with the shoebox idea, I can't really understand why your opposed to it so maybe if you explain again...

 

[Shike]

Quote:

I'll let it go, just think about how much better the DIY community would have been if Lord Voldemort was a nice guy and chose to work with the community rather than try and take over the world.

He is working with the community - some have caught potential issues early on and had a great amount of input at the diyaudio forums.  What more do you want?
 

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

 
I don't really see what's wrong with the shoebox idea, I'd be happy to attend a meet with the shoebox idea, I can't really understand why your opposed to it so maybe if you explain again...

 
The only thing I can think of is that it might offend some people who are really passionate or have an emotional attachment with their gear.
 
When I do pull off the shoebox idea, I plan on being as nice as possible as I'm not one to look down on other peoples subjective experiences, even if they are different to mine.
 
Not that anybody will care though, as I plan on blowing the place up with Stax anyway.
 
Quote:

He is working with the community - some have caught potential issues early on and had a great amount of input at the diyaudio forums.  What more do you want?

 
This is what I would have done if I had access to such awesome measuring equipment:
 
"Yo dawg, I've got some sweet boxes, let us measure lots of gear for the lols and the advancement of objective knowledge as a community"
 
I would not have done this:
 
"LOLOLOLOOL MINI3 MEASUREMENTS ARE IMPOSSIBLE AND WRONG, AMB IS FULL OF HORSE POO EVERYTHING HE DID WAS WRONG AND I AM THE SAVIOR OF THIS WORLD LOOK AT ALL MY 10,000 WORD ARTICLES AND AWESOME PROPER MEASURING GEAR AND ONLY I CAN LIVE FOREVER WHERE'D MY NOSE GO?"
 
At the end of the day, the goal is the same but the way in which you proceed, matters so much IMO. But that is the past, and nothing can be done about it, you probably don't know the whole story as I'm guessing you are a somewhat new follower of nwavguy.
 
I don't really have a problem in how he approached the Objective2 project except maybe calling it a $30 amp and comparing it to a $1600 DAC(lol) or a $2000+(lol) beta22. But that's mainly because I'm a cheapskate.

 
I know, it looks like I'm taking the piss out of him, but I kind of deserve to as I believe I'm still the only person here whose actually built an Obj2 by myself. And I did give it a glowing 'review', ahahah.
 
I really do feel alone here as the subjective side feel strongly about their experiences, the objective side feel very strongly about their measurements, but where do I fit in? I don't care about anything, it's just gear. Why you guys so serious? or perhaps the better question is, why me no serious? Well, I guess you could say I'm only in this hobby for the lols, but apparently, this hobby is like a bushido for many. Have people forgotten what a hobby was supposed to be about?
 
I'm getting sick of arguing over nothing.

 

[Shike]

I'll take my more lengthy reply to PM, and I'll say it once more:
 
This thread is about the O2. 
It's not about AMB.
It has nothing to do with NwAvGuy's ego.
The pot doesn't need more stirring.

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

I'll take my more lengthy reply to PM, and I'll say it once more:
 
This thread is about the O2. 
It's not about AMB.
It has nothing to do with NwAvGuy's ego.
The pot doesn't need more stirring.

 
This thread is in the DIY section.
 
I am still the only person on this forum who has built the amp, it would be quite boring if we couldn't talk about anything else, no? It's you guys who've brought up the beta22's 'measurements' anyway.

 

[kiteki]

 
Just to clarify about the 'objective' discussion before I don't equate objectivist to "measurement purist" in case there was some confusion there, to be honest I think the measurement purists for headphones are really annoying Lol.
 
 
deadlylover Y are you "the only person on this forum that's built the obj2" ??
 
 
p.s. not to go OT or anything, but can I get your guys quick opinions on NOS DAC's using really old chips on purpose? Just curious what your 'basic' thoughts are on NOS...
 

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

deadlylover Y are you "the only person on this forum that's built the obj2" ??

 
I haven't been 'keeping tabs', but anyone else on this forum who has the obj2 either had some kind of review sample or had somebody else build it for them. Hardly DIY IMO.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

 
I haven't been 'keeping tabs', but anyone else on this forum who has the obj2 either had some kind of review sample or had somebody else build it for them. Hardly DIY IMO.

 
Many "DIY" amps are sold commercially, so it really doesn't matter.  Besides, you didn't exactly build the "O2" exactly either - the designer was pretty sincere about using a PCB and not point to point.  Currently, you have something that resembles the O2 by topology in a box
 
 
Quote:

p.s. not to go OT or anything, but can I get your guys quick opinions on NOS DAC's using really old chips on purpose? Just curious what your 'basic' thoughts are on NOS...

They can sound fun, but they definitely have issues when it comes to reference accuracy.  I got one a long time ago and sold it off.  I think they're a novelty to have in a vintage CDP, but CDs aren't my main source anymore so I can sort-of justify it (plus, the CDPs were cheap).
 

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

Many "DIY" amps are sold commercially, so it really doesn't matter.  Besides, you didn't exactly build the "O2" exactly either - the designer was pretty sincere about using a PCB and not point to point.  Currently, you have something that resembles the O2 by topology in a box

 
Heheheh, but an amp is it's schematic, not the final product.

 
By that logic, nobody is worthy of having the Obj2 until Lord Voldemort gives it his personal blessing.

 

[kiteki]

Thanks Shike... what do you guys think for my next Dac/Amp... Valab NOS DAC + obj2 - or - Fostex HP-A3?
 
 

 

[deadlylover]

Quote:

Thanks Shike... what do you guys think for my next Dac/Amp... Valab NOS DAC + obj2 - or - Fostex HP-A3?

 
I'd go for the former, I think it works out to be slightly cheaper and it's nice having a separate DAC and amp so you can change it up more easily when the time comes.