[papamogl]

Please forgive me if this question of a technically inexperienced audiophile hurts any feelings or puts any paradigms in doubt. I do not know a lot about headphones, physics, accoustics etc. I only know some things about music and a lot about my ears.
 
As far as I understood the frequency response of a headphone depicts how faithful -  which means without adding sth to or taking sth away from the signal - a phone reproduces the actual signal. As we know this can be measured objectively, so next will be following some graphs.
 
There are a lot of high priced "flagships" for audiophiles, which often seem to be after neutral headphones. One example is the Sennheiser HD800, which is held in high regard, and obviously it measures very nicely and flat:
 

 
 
However, a down the line model from the same company (approx. one third of the price) seems to have an even more natural FR. In fact, this is as close to pinpoint neutral than it probably gets. The HD600:
 

 
 
And an even more affordable model from Beyerdynamic, the DT 770 Pro (this one seems to fare even better with this measurement than the DT 880) comes close to the HD600's stunning result, apparently beating the HD800 in terms of linearity:
 

 
From these tests, the HD600 and 650, and the DT 770 Pro and DT 880 seem to be more neutral headphones than the HD800. So what is it exactly that makes the HD800 the better headphone, justifying the huge price gap? Is there something wrong with these tests? Of course they are not telling the whole story. But distortion, impulse response, step response and spectral decay measurements where better with the HD600s too.
Is it only the soundstage that takes them apart, and that can't be measured? Or are the HD600 the most neutral headphone in the world, but this much neutrality might not be called for, as long as "colouration" stays in a certain bandwith? Or is the HD800 a bit "hyped" by the community, maybe even due to it's high price (which makes them more exclusive)?
 
I guess it is only so much that graphs can tell, as long as the deviation from the ideal FR stays in a certain range. However, when 400$ headphones can have such an incredible FR, and 300$ headphones can have a luxurios soundstage (K702, Dt 880) I have some difficulty in understanding what triple the price can get you more.

 

[vid]

The HD 600's result isn't quite stunning - they have a bass hump.
 
But to be more serious, the graphs don't reflect so much the neutrality of the phones but how close they come to the ideal compensation curve used by whoever does the measurements. No guarantee that that gives you flat sound, and no guarantee that phones that measure flatter than others under that compensation would be perceived flatter.
 
As far as achieving a good diffuse field curve as the HD 600 seem to go for, several vintage headphones in the $10-30 range achieve it equally well or better.

 

[MrViolin]

Not all people want a non-colored sound. Some are fun cans like the d7000/TH900.
 
For more, you can get more resolving/detail power, more life-like reproduction of music/better imaging/separation. A guy in another thread listened to an Omega 2 not so long ago and said that it was how music was supposed to sound, juts effortless. 
 
Most neutral doesn't always give best enjoyment or the most resolving power or the best realistic sound-stage.
 
As for the price gap, there are tons of factors: R&D, how much people are willing to pay, the recent advent of beats, etc. Not long ago, <$1k could buy you quite a bit in terms of most of the flagships unless it was summit-fi vintage phones such as the Orpheus. 
 
How much coloration a person wants really depends on the person. Some people like the lcd-2 over the hd800 and vis-versa. Music preference also plays a big roll. 
 
You can also add in the placebo effect and that human perception of sound is quite poor. You can also compare it to the specs on a car. They're numbers until you drive/listen. The car can have good or bad grip or aiming on the road, but you wouldn't know until you got in the car and took it for a spin. 
 
I wouldn't say that the hd800 is hyped especially when you have phones that go for 3-4x the price. 
 
It all really comes down to taste. What sets the current flagships such as the th900, hd800, lcd-3, etc isn't really their technical perspective, but rather their sound signature and the person's personal opinion. 

 

[audiojun]

Well the HD 600 are known for the neutrality. though lacking deep sub-bass.

 

[mikeaj]

Quote:

[...]
But to be more serious, the graphs don't reflect so much the neutrality of the phones but how close they come to the ideal compensation curve used by whoever does the measurements. No guarantee that that gives you flat sound, and no guarantee that phones that measure flatter than others under that compensation would be perceived flatter.

 
Not just the compensation curve they use (anybody's is debatable), but the 1/3 octave smoothing, not to mention the whole test setup.

 

[Headzone]

What does neutral mean? If it means flat frequency response, then... maybe..
 
But I think DT48's pretty much kill the HD600's when it comes to resolving detail. IMO

 

[maarek99]

I'm just listening to the HD800 being driven by the Lake People G100 and a V-DAC II. Sounds pretty damn neutral. HD650 with these is a bass bloated mess (still love them though too)

 

[papamogl]

I think the term neutral should be used as meaning a flat FR. So there is agreement that the HD600 is neutral, but the compensation curve (whatever that is) of this measurement is questionable?
I know that ultra flat doesn't guarantee best listening experience (but what else does if one prefers a neutral phone?), but strictly speaking the HD800 has a slight bump at 1.8kH, taking away from the signal there, and a peak at 5kH adding power to this frequency. While this might be preferred by some (or even most), it is not "neutral" as such. So if you want to listen to the recordings exactly as they are, the HD600 would be the best headphone for that, no?

 

[Greed]

Neutral is subjective, just like sound. Also, you should learn quickly that measurements don't justify how a headphone will sound. In some cases, graphs will give op you a general idea how a headphone will sound, but then again... the meter isn't your brain. Also, if you want neutra (flat, according to you) then buy a LL MK2/SR009 rig, and be done with it.

Overall, I consider the HD600 to have a balanced sound, somewhat neutral (flat) but with a slight warmish tilt. The bass still has a hump, and the treble is still slightly rolled off. Now with that said, I didn't need a graph to hear those characteristics. Train your ears, and trust them.

 

[vid]

Quote:

I think the term neutral should be used as meaning a flat FR. So there is agreement that the HD600 is neutral, but the compensation curve (whatever that is) of this measurement is questionable?

 
The frequency response of the HD 600 at the eardrum isn't flat. They have a huuuuge mountainous peak at ~3 kHz and a smaller peak at ~10 kHz. It's then anyone's guess (compensation curve) how the brain interprets that; and a matter of luck whether the listener's ear's anatomy agrees with what the HD 600 engineers had in mind.

 

[Currawong]

Vid: Do you mean in terms of the raw output or adjusted for an average HRTF?

 

[vid]

The raw response, i.e. the measured response. InnerFidelity uses a different compensation curve than Golden Ears; subsequently the InnerFidelity HD 600 graph doesn't look flat. You find yourself having to evaluate not the neutrality of the phones but the accuracy of the compensation curve.

 

[Ajani]

Which one of these is more neutral? 
 
 

 
 
Personally, I'd say it's the DT880, but it is debatable. 

 

[tseliottt]

Not even close. I use the ER4 as a measure of neutrality. Not only are they audibly neutral, but it shows in the graphs. The sound of the HD650 on the other hand, is far from neutral, and its not even that close graphically. The $60 Sony V6 is more neutral.
 

 

[vid]

The Sennheiser HD 530 (blue; ~$30; modded) isn't much different from the HD 600 response-wise. Less energy at the extremes but similar otherwise. Then there's the Sennheiser Unipolar 2000 (red; ~$100; modded). Both are a fraction of the price of the HD 600.
 

(1/3 octave smoothing)