[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller You searched? What did you find?

Thus far...nadda. Don't take that as "OMG tehre is no patent!" because I'm searching using a multitude of terms: Rotenberg, tube, single, ended, class A, etc etc. I'll continue to post as I search more.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie Thus far...nadda. Don't take that as "OMG tehre is no patent!" because I'm searching using a multitude of terms: Rotenberg, tube, single, ended, class A, etc etc. I'll continue to post as I search more.

Do you need to be prodded with a Quail power cord

 

[Earwax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie So here's a question. Has anyone besides me actually taken the time to go and search the U.S. issued patent and pending application archives? Just curious to see if there's any substance behind the random mud-slinging.

I haven't found anything. I only checked for Rotenberg and SinglePower

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy The claim is not unfounded. I have received a PM from one of the individuals in question, stating that these threats have indeed been made. Whether the individual who PMed me is telling the truth is impossible for me to know, but I will say that he has solid credentials and a good reputation.

This is called hearsay. It is inadmissible in a court of law, with certain exceptions, because very smart people decided (several hundred years ago) that it was inherently unreliable for a host of reasons. I'm not saying Mikhail did or did not say certain things. But no one has yet to come forth, as far as I can recall, and say; "He said this to me." The statements are merely: "Someone told me that he said this to them."

 

[AuroraProject]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie Thus far...nadda. Don't take that as "OMG tehre is no patent!" because I'm searching using a multitude of terms: Rotenberg, tube, single, ended, class A, etc etc. I'll continue to post as I search more.

Ditto, and I've searched every phrase I could think of. Nothing so far.

 

[Wodgy]

As I've said before, I only wish there weren't threats of lawsuits floating around so that everyone could be candid about what they know. I posted what I had heard because I trust the source from whom I heard it.

The whole situation is unfortunate and tiring. I am certain that someone will post pictures sooner or later and the objective truth will then come out.

Until then, I'm pretty much done with this issue, since nothing can be resolved by pure philosophizing and further discussion will just make people think this is a baseless witchhunt.

 

[ppl]

Wow first off I think some of you should spend more time watching reality TV shows to get your Drama fix. First there is the Rudi amps getting bashed http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...light=Rudistor
And now the single power amps are under the gun of rumor mongers. I think forb some of you more time spent watching Real World on MTV and less time drumming up Dirty laundry on a web site is in order STEP AWAW FROM THE COMPUTER….. Get to Know your TV set better they both have a viewing screen ya know

Now the Class A operation can be verified by a bench test. I understand 6 moos is a subjective review publication and they do not bench test amps. Since this comes into question perhaps an owner of the amps can cart it down to there Local Hi-Fi service center and have it tested and get a copy of the scope photo while measuring THD this will show crossover distortion artifacts if not Class A and at what point the amp comes out of class A.

As far as the legal threats I believe at lest one person has stated publicly they were not threaten with this by posting pictures of the inside of the amp.

In addition I totally agree with the View of mig on this post of his http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=33
It’s all about the sound baby nothing else matters to me. Another good point is brought up in this post http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=35

And at least one person has used wire nuts in a DIY construction. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=49

http://ts.smoothcorp.com/cornerhardw...7.299x299.jpeg

is reliability of this amp a problem well lets see what some owners say
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...2&postcount=67
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=106
It appears that longevity is not a problem with these amps.

So hear we have an Amp that from all reports sounds good and is trouble free and no noise. What’s the Problem then? Oh ya don’t like the look of the insides you don’t buy an Audio Amp to look at the insides you buy it to listen to or am I missing something hear. Now we get to those that say the amp is a copy of another ones work I believe that Wodgy has expressed his view on this http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...2&postcount=57

Tubes have been around longer than most of us have and about everything that can be done with tubes already has with the possible of Tube cad journal that uses up to date design techniques to old Valve designs of the past. Any similarity to another amp is going to happen and the operative word hear is similar not the same. I am not familiar with singlepower amps however I can say that Mike is technically knowledgeable and surly has the capability to design himself and not have to copy others.

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller Do you need to be prodded with a Quail power cord

May that come back to haunt you someday. Watch out at the next Chicago meet.

Alright, to make this as straightforward as possible, I'll list the searches and their results. This is using the US Patent Office's advanced Patent Database search and advanced PreGrant Publication Database search. Obviously since some searches may leave out possible options, I have searched as many terms as I believe would be suitable for this type of inquiry.

in/(rotenberg-mikhail OR rotenberg-m or rotenberg)
-- Patent search returns twelve patents, all solely under the term "rotenberg" with no results pertaining to the design/fabrication/etc. of tube amplifiers. PreGrant search returns four patents, none pertaining to tube amplifiers.

(in/rotenberg) AND (in/colorado)
-- no returns on either search

ttl/(singlepower or (class and A))
-- no returns on existing patent search, eight returns on pending patent search, one pertaining to Class-A design of amplifiers: Class-A amplifier circuit having output voltage varied according to input voltage. Patent does not appear to be related to SinglePower, Mikhail Rotenberg, et al but is an interesting read.

That's where I am so far. Still going, if I find anything I'll post it.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller You know,this is actually the most civil of all these threads and hopefully it can stay open. I think we can all agree that Sixmoons really,really dropped the ball on this one. I liked Sixmoons,especially for the music reviews,but I've lost a lot of respect for these guys recently. This fiasco and and the headache inducing writing style of the writers,is too much for me. I'll probably change my mind again later so don't quote me.

Hey tubey you know your gonna get quoted

That was a joke just in case I get flamed

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppl So hear we have an Amp that from all reports sounds good and is trouble free and no noise. What’s the Problem then? Oh ya don’t like the look of the insides you don’t buy an Audio Amp to look at the insides you buy it to listen to or am I missing something hear. Now we get to those that say the amp is a copy of another ones work I believe that Wodgy has expressed his view on this http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...2&postcount=57

In a thread like this, we don't need generalizations like "from all reports...[it] is trouble free" when the original thread with images was started by someone having trouble with the amp, and a few other reports have been made about the amps having specific problems.

Meanwhile, the concerns about the inside of the amp aren't in terms of what it *looks* like. It's in terms of its resilience and safety.

There are some important questions to be asked from this line of inquiry, notably the following:

1) Is the amp Class A? (this pertains to established claims by its manufacturer)
2) Is the amp single ended? (ditto the above)
3) Is the amp safe in terms of quality of construction and any potential shock hazard? (ie. what can happen of wires cross, etc based on the nature of the internal ptp wiring)
4) Is there a patent or pending patent based on this work? (as established by manufacturer)

This isn't a "light" issue that can be pushed aside by a general "this forum needs to take a chill pill." While there is plenty of witch hunting and groupy-ing going on, I believe that the core questions are important to answer for anyone who wishes to buy the amp based on its claimed design.

Yes, it sounds fantastic. Yes, the amp is ultra-quiet. But these are not the sole important factors in an amp design and in the manner in which it's advertised.

Just my two cents.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Hey tubey you know your gonna get quoted That was a joke just in case I get flamed

OK,I deserve to be beat when I change my mind. I call that the Kerry Flop.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppl Wow first off I think some of you should spend more time watching reality TV shows to get your Drama fix. First there is the Rudi amps getting bashed http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...light=Rudistor And now the single power amps are under the gun of rumor mongers. I think forb some of you more time spent watching Real World on MTV and less time drumming up Dirty laundry on a web site is in order STEP AWAW FROM THE COMPUTER….. Get to Know your TV set better they both have a viewing screen ya know Now the Class A operation can be verified by a bench test. I understand 6 moos is a subjective review publication and they do not bench test amps. Since this comes into question perhaps an owner of the amps can cart it down to there Local Hi-Fi service center and have it tested and get a copy of the scope photo while measuring THD this will show crossover distortion artifacts if not Class A and at what point the amp comes out of class A. As far as the legal threats I believe at lest one person has stated publicly they were not threaten with this by posting pictures of the inside of the amp. In addition I totally agree with the View of mig on this post of his http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...7&postcount=33 It’s all about the sound baby nothing else matters to me. Another good point is brought up in this post http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=35 And at least one person has used wire nuts in a DIY construction. http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...5&postcount=49 http://ts.smoothcorp.com/cornerhardw...7.299x299.jpeg is reliability of this amp a problem well lets see what some owners say http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...2&postcount=67 http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...&postcount=106 It appears that longevity is not a problem with these amps. So hear we have an Amp that from all reports sounds good and is trouble free and no noise. What’s the Problem then? Oh ya don’t like the look of the insides you don’t buy an Audio Amp to look at the insides you buy it to listen to or am I missing something hear. Now we get to those that say the amp is a copy of another ones work I believe that Wodgy has expressed his view on this http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showp...2&postcount=57 Tubes have been around longer than most of us have and about everything that can be done with tubes already has with the possible of Tube cad journal that uses up to date design techniques to old Valve designs of the past. Any similarity to another amp is going to happen and the operative word hear is similar not the same. I am not familiar with singlepower amps however I can say that Mike is technically knowledgeable and surly has the capability to design himself and not have to copy others.

Common sense, what a refreshing change.

 

[Tuberoller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie In a thread like this, we don't need generalizations like "from all reports...[it] is trouble free" when the original thread with images was started by someone having trouble with the amp, and a few other reports have been made about the amps having specific problems. Meanwhile, the concerns about the inside of the amp aren't in terms of what it *looks* like. It's in terms of its resilience and safety. There are some important questions to be asked from this line of inquiry, notably the following: 1) Is the amp Class A? (this pertains to established claims by its manufacturer) 2) Is the amp single ended? (ditto the above) 3) Is the amp safe in terms of quality of construction and any potential shock hazard? (ie. what can happen of wires cross, etc based on the nature of the internal ptp wiring) 4) Is there a patent or pending patent based on this work? (as established by manufacturer) This isn't a "light" issue that can be pushed aside by a general "this forum needs to take a chill pill." While there is plenty of witch hunting and groupy-ing going on, I believe that the core questions are important to answer for anyone who wishes to buy the amp based on its claimed design. Yes, it sounds fantastic. Yes, the amp is ultra-quiet. But these are not the sole important factors in an amp design. Just my two cents.

Let's give this a while to calm down a bit. I'm sure patent searches take a few days and maybe the search results can be posted later. The whole Sixmoons thing is more a conviction of that publication than it is of any manufacturer. They did'nt check facts and deserve to get burned(if that's the case).

 

[vanillawafer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by strohmie In a thread like this, we don't need generalizations like "from all reports...[it] is trouble free" when the original thread with images was started by someone having trouble with the amp, and a few other reports have been made about the amps having specific problems. Meanwhile, the concerns about the inside of the amp aren't in terms of what it *looks* like. It's in terms of its resilience and safety. There are some important questions to be asked from this line of inquiry, notably the following: 1) Is the amp Class A? (this pertains to established claims by its manufacturer) 2) Is the amp single ended? (ditto the above) 3) Is the amp safe in terms of quality of construction and any potential shock hazard? (ie. what can happen of wires cross, etc based on the nature of the internal ptp wiring) 4) Is there a patent or pending patent based on this work? (as established by manufacturer) This isn't a "light" issue that can be pushed aside by a general "this forum needs to take a chill pill." While there is plenty of witch hunting and groupy-ing going on, I believe that the core questions are important to answer for anyone who wishes to buy the amp based on its claimed design. Yes, it sounds fantastic. Yes, the amp is ultra-quiet. But these are not the sole important factors in an amp design and in the manner in which it's advertised. Just my two cents.

BINGO!!! You said it all. I bought one of these amps not to long ago and I'm very concerned having spent almost $800.00. I did send Mikhail an email not to long ago (around 4:00 CST Today) asking him some of these questions, and I'm hoping he will answer them for me. These are very valid questions/concerns for current and potential owners, so quit trying to convince people otherwise!

 

[strohmie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuberoller Let's give this a while to calm down a bit. I'm sure patent searches take a few days and maybe the search results can be posted later. The whole Sixmoons thing is more a conviction of that publication than it is of any manufacturer. They did'nt check facts and deserve to get burned(if that's the case).

I'm still rolling on my searches. Sifting through the "tube" searches (making a list of andnot statements right now like cathode, ray, etc. etc. -- yes, this could take a while).