[llysender]

I have a really simple answer to that question.

It simply comes from being in contact (with no prior communication) on the results of a cable. Meaning another listener with the exact same IEM perceived the same qualities in a different part of the world, without prior knowledge of your experience.

And you may wonder just how far the tiny details are in common? They are very involved and have to do with soundstage, midrange and vocal tone, and bass texture......amongst other things, I could go on.

So for the people into cables, often we are all experiencing the exact same effects. Even retailers will include a bass recessive cable like the ISN SC4 as an aftermarket cable at near $100 (extra) to try and align an IEM tone.

Cables have character and are freely talked about among enthusiasts, due to their performance enhancements. Literally every IEM made today has thought put into just what would be the best cable to dial in the sound with-in the perspective budget parameters.

Tbh the biggest difference in cables I hear is what I would like to call signal drag. Seems to be caused by the insulator choice causing parasitic capacitance and releasing the energy slowly. Stock fiio cables are pretty bad in that reguard and even the stock FD7 silver cable has this warm background and particularly high noisefloor for my taste.

With reguards to the Silver vs copper, Ive found the cleanest UPOFC copper while nice can strip all rythem and pace to the music in addition to being too bright in the upper mids. While with Silver it has the potential to be completely weightless and dead sounding yet harsh. What Im saying is that there is no point chasing the best cables if the driver wasnt tuned with those in mind.

 

[theveterans]

That’s some pretty terrible copper or silver cables if they degrade the signal rather than enhance it.

There’s more than just materials but how a cable craftsman design and implement the geometry, strands sizes, shielding etc. before it gets released to the public. That’s why you can’t compare some aliexpress budget silver cable and expect it to deliver the same technical aspects of sound of a silver cable from a boutique and reputable cable manufacturer such as from PW Audio, Eletech, DanaCable, Effect Audio, Double Helix Cables, etc.

 

[llysender]

That’s some pretty terrible copper or silver cables if they degrade the signal rather than enhance it.

There’s more than just materials but how a cable craftsman design and implement the geometry, strands sizes, shielding etc. before it gets released to the public. That’s why you can’t compare some aliexpress budget silver cable and expect it to deliver the same technical aspects of sound of a silver cable from a boutique and reputable cable manufacturer such as from PW Audio, Eletech, DanaCable, Effect Audio, Double Helix Cables, etc.

I donno I was thinking of PW no. 10 and toxic silverwiddow for good quality copper and silver respectively that doesnt pair well with FD7. At the end of the day I ended up with Nobunaga silver series.

Also technically its "enhancing" the signal qualities but in ways that dont sinergise well. And I dont see a issue with Ali Cables(KBEar and TRI) even though these days I run my orders through a local maker.

 

[initialt]

This is a subject which has divided Head-Fi and the Audiophile Community in general. It’s even safe to say you will get opposing suggestions here. The best idea is to try some cables for yourself and find out if you hear any differences.

Much of the time perception can be pulled from perfect clarity due to suggestions. Like if someone told you copper is a warmer cable you may even think you hear that it is. If someone told you that you would hear silver add resolution and detail it may magically come about due to suggestion/placebo effect.

Each of us has taken time, though normally at the end level of setting up a system to find out if there was such a thing as cable material improvements possible and real.

Mind you our industry is full of decisively false claims and false marketing on every level. These folks take advantage of an audiophiles weakness for seeking out better sound quality at any cost. So you have sales talk and sales promises, you have an entire magazine publication base paid and funded to promote new expensive gear, which is at times actually not better but better hyped.

So you can imagine the recoil and jaded views by some folks as to stuff that stays beyond the realm of science and scientific tests. Normally cable effects and cable measurement can not be proven with known scientific methods.

So you end up with two groups. One doesn’t care about proof but hears better sound, thus proof. And another group that scoffs at the ludicrous nature of spending money in such a way.

This would be a small issue if cables were cheap but some can be thousands.

I became a cable believer when I finally tested pure silver wire in my reference system. The system in question bordered on treble centric and the introduction of silver created a bad issue. Stuff was not only thin, but very fast disorganized and hard to grasp. I changed back to my $15 copper Monster level RCA cables and all was well. So the mega buck silver cable was not right in my system. But that started me on a love of copper cable and I have one set of nice copper interconnection cables I believe help. But of course there are systems they make an improvement in and other systems it’s a wash.

Thanks for this; very helpful explanation.

 

[castleofargh]

Except that "Normally cable effects and cable measurement can not be proven with known scientific methods." is false.
The only thing stopping a scientific approach in here is usually the audiophile himself, as he refuses to go beyond casual sighted listening, and will almost never try to measure anything. So we end up with his empty claim about things that could be true, could be invented, could be from some psychological bias, or could simply be that the listening conditions were so full of uncontrolled variables that the real cause for sound change isn't at all what he thinks it is. After all, it's not surprising for bad tests to yield false data.
Attributing sounds to silver is probably one of those, IMO.

Let's be real for a moment, what method proves sound difference that doesn't involve method and objective control over some variables? Screaming louder than everybody else? Demanding trust without giving evidence, like done in a cult? Calling an astrologer? The issue here is how people convince themselves of having facts, despite doing none of the things that can demonstrate an event and make it a fact.




Now for those who care about known facts, also called facts, I have explained (probably poorly) in my previous post how impedance alone can justify changes in loudness caused by cable swap, and if the IEM or the amp or both have non-flat impedance, some EQ like result is to be expected instead of simple loudness change.
We can also think of bad cutting/soldering and various differences between apparently identical cables (length difference, variations in diameter despite having the same AWG value, as that standard itself contains an accepted tolerance, maybe some physical impact narrowed the diameter somewhere). Maybe not enough insulation and certain braiding choices or a shielding that probably shouldn't exist on IEM cables, leads to differences in crosstalk. I'm surely forgetting obvious possibilities.
All those are happening, it's a matter of finding out if and when they're having an impact big enough to be audible, and for that actual listening tests are needed to differentiate hearing from every other possibilities. And measurements are needed if we wish to know which change is more likely to have caused that audible impact.

The rejection of empty claims about sound differences has never been about lack of a scientific explanation, lack of ways to find out, or belief that cables can never cause audible differences. Rejection of empty claims is about rejecting empty claims. Plain and simple. At least that's been the case for me. Faulty logic and lack of evidence is not how a conversation on facts should work.