I just started to step into world of IEM cable after playing around with IEMs for around 3 years. I wish to know is there a general trend for sound signature of cable material. So far my experience is pure copper gives rich and full sound signature but some time I find it to be full for silver cable too... Is there a general guideline? I am confused.
This is a subject which has divided Head-Fi and the Audiophile Community in general. It’s even safe to say you will get opposing suggestions here. The best idea is to try some cables for yourself and find out if you hear any differences.
Much of the time perception can be pulled from perfect clarity due to suggestions. Like if someone told you copper is a warmer cable you may even think you hear that it is. If someone told you that you would hear silver add resolution and detail it may magically come about due to suggestion/placebo effect.
Each of us has taken time, though normally at the end level of setting up a system to find out if there was such a thing as cable material improvements possible and real.
Mind you our industry is full of decisively false claims and false marketing on every level. These folks take advantage of an audiophiles weakness for seeking out better sound quality at any cost. So you have sales talk and sales promises, you have an entire magazine publication base paid and funded to promote new expensive gear, which is at times actually not better but better hyped.
So you can imagine the recoil and jaded views by some folks as to stuff that stays beyond the realm of science and scientific tests. Normally cable effects and cable measurement can not be proven with known scientific methods.
So you end up with two groups. One doesn’t care about proof but hears better sound, thus proof. And another group that scoffs at the ludicrous nature of spending money in such a way.
This would be a small issue if cables were cheap but some can be thousands.
I became a cable believer when I finally tested pure silver wire in my reference system. The system in question bordered on treble centric and the introduction of silver created a bad issue. Stuff was not only thin, but very fast disorganized and hard to grasp. I changed back to my $15 copper Monster level RCA cables and all was well. So the mega buck silver cable was not right in my system. But that started me on a love of copper cable and I have one set of nice copper interconnection cables I believe help. But of course there are systems they make an improvement in and other systems it’s a wash.
This is a subject which has divided Head-Fi and the Audiophile Community in general. It’s even safe to say you will get opposing suggestions here. The best idea is to try some cables for yourself and find out if you hear any differences.
Much of the time perception can be pulled from perfect clarity due to suggestions. Like if someone told you copper is a warmer cable you may even think you hear that is is. If someone told you that you would hear silver add resolution and detail it may magically come about due to suggestion/placebo effect.
Each of us has taken time, though normally at the end level of setting up a system to find out if there was such a thing as cable material improvements possible and real.
Mind you our industry is full of decisively false claims and false marketing on every level. These folks take advantage of an audiophiles weakness for seeking out better sound quality at any cost. So you have sales talk and sales promises, you have an entire magazine publication base paid and funded to promote new expensive gear, which is at times actually not better but better hyped.
So you can imagine the recoil and jaded views by some folks as to stuff that stays beyond the realm of science and scientific tests. Normally cable effects and cable measurement can not be proven with known scientific methods.
So you end up with two groups. One doesn’t care about proof but hears better sound, thus proof. And another group that scoffs at the ludicrous nature of spending money in such a way.
This would be a small issue if cables were cheap but some can be thousands.
I became a cable believer when I finally tested pure silver wire in my reference system. The system in question bordered on treble centric and the introduction of silver created a bad issue. Stuff was not only thin, but very fast disorganized and hard to grasp. I changed back to my $15 copper Monster level RCA cables and all was well. So the mega buck silver cable was not right in my system. But that started me on a love of copper cable and I have one set of nice copper interconnection cables I believe help. But of course there are systems they make an improvement in and other systems it’s a wash.
Thank you for your detailed explanation. This came across my mind because one of my friend just simply spend thousands for an IEM cable which confused me. I would say there is no hard and fast rule in choosing any audio gear including cable. The suitability and personal preference play an important role! Thank you very much
There are as many opinions on this as there are cables. My suggestion is to get some of each and see which you, yourself (not some reviewer), prefer in your system. I, personally, am not a believer in mega-expensive cables as I don't seem to hear a lot of difference when compared to more modestly priced gear. That's just me, though, and everyone's mileage varies. Remember, though, as @Redcarmoose identifies, the power of suggestion with cables is profound, perhaps more so than anywhere else in audiophjilia. If the reviewer purportedly hears something, perhaps you, too, should hear it the same way--even if you maybe don't really. Now, you are dealing with a case of confirmation bias and then you really have no idea what is going on at that point. Best to rely on your own ears. You might hear a difference, you might not. At least it's your experience and not someone else's driving your purchasing decisions. ---)
There are as many opinions on this as there are cables. My suggestion is to get some of each and see which you, yourself (not some reviewer), prefer in your system. I, personally, am not a believer in mega-expensive cables as I don't seem to hear a lot of difference when compared to more modestly priced gear. That's just me, though, and everyone's mileage varies. Remember, though, as @Redcarmoose identifies, the power of suggestion with cables is profound, perhaps more so than anywhere else in audiophjilia. If the reviewer purportedly hears something, perhaps you, too, should hear it the same way--even if you maybe don't really. Now, you are dealing with a case of confirmation bias and then you really have no idea what is going on at that point. Best to rely on your own ears. You might hear a difference, you might not. At least it's your experience and not someone else's driving your purchasing decisions. ---)
Thanks serman005 for your great explanation! I would like to get a cable for my Campfire Audio Nova to improve the treble performance. The treble just rolls off too much. Is it possible to do so with a cable upgrade? If not I would just sell it away and get something new maybe?
Thanks serman005 for your great explanation! I would like to get a cable for my Campfire Audio Nova to improve the treble performance. The treble just rolls off too much. Is it possible to do so with a cable upgrade? If not I would just sell it away and get something new maybe?
It's conceivable. What I would do if I were you is I would email Ken at Campfire and explain what is happening. ALO (Campfire's sister company) makes awesome cables and he may have one he recommends for what ails you. I am sorry, I don't have his email address but you should be able to find good contact info on the Campfire website. I hope it works for you. Also, have you thought about a Polaris? I wonder if that would work for you?
It's conceivable. What I would do if I were you is I would email Ken at Campfire and explain what is happening. ALO (Campfire's sister company) makes awesome cables and he may have one he recommends for what ails you. I am sorry, I don't have his email address but you should be able to find good contact info on the Campfire website. I hope it works for you. Also, have you thought about a Polaris? I wonder if that would work for you?
I did consider Polaris before but I the mid is a little recessed for me. I appreciate good vocal and I like what is presented by Nova. Better treble performance will make it perfect
Well, the part of it too, that we have not gone over is the tuning aspect. I’m going to be buying a new IEM cable at the end of the month. But I’m actually looking to tune to the warmer side. From what I’ve seen many of the warmer cables are not as expensive. So I’m going into this not expecting to spend a ton of money. It seems like pure silver or any cable with silver for an IEM can be slighly or profoundly more money.
But, ya, there are people who have spent $2000 on an IEM cable. To me that’s silly as I still look at cables with some reserve as I know they make a difference but not THAT much. Still it’s all relative, if somenone has a IEM rig, and believes it gives them that last 10% of quality, who am I to judge. It’s always that last 10% that is expensive. Still it’s so small a sound quality issue that maybe it’s there or maybe not. But the person who buys the cable believes it’s there. What ever you believe to be true can be perceived as true! Life is strange!
Well, the part of it too, that we have not gone over is the tuning aspect. I’m going to be buying a new IEM cable at the end of the month. But I’m actually looking to tune to the warmer side. From what I’ve seen many of the warmer cables are not as expensive. So I’m going into this not expecting to spend a ton of money. It seems like pure silver or any cable with silver for an IEM can be slighly or profoundly more money.
But, ya, there are people who have spent $2000 on an IEM cable. To me that’s silly as I still look at cables with some reserve as I know they make a difference but not THAT much. Still it’s all relative, if somenone has a IEM rig, and believes it gives them that last 10% of quality, who am I to judge. It’s always that last 10% that is expensive. Still it’s so small a sound quality issue that maybe it’s there or maybe not. But the person who buys the cable believes it’s there. What ever you believe to be true can be perceived as true! Life is strange!
I really like how you describe the last 10% of quality! I am currently facing this issue - making my IEM perform better at the treble and adding more air and space to my IEM. Will try some cables soon to find out more. Hopefully this can come to an end but I know this is impossible.
Maybe my friend just feel happier with a cable that costs him thousands. I will not stop him from pursuing his happiness!
Welcome to the highly subjective & personal world of cable rolling which is a minefield disaster waiting to happen not only for your sanity but obviously your wallet ...
I have come up with some highly personal & subjective results in my own quest if you're interested...
While I have not played with stupidly overpriced cables, eg $ 500 +, I do own several pricy cables which do fall below that mark which I am well satisfied with but that is my highly subjective & personal opinion.
Another thing I will mention before I go into some detail about my experiences so far, is cable rolling doesn't change the sound signature as some may believe but at least for me, alters the tuning more often than not, whether it is favourable for you is highly personal.
Also, I have this POV as long as a cable doesn't make the IEM sound worse than that's obviously a good thing though if it doesn't do anything while disappointing makes a good backup cable if your stock one has kanna F so to speak.
To start, I would suggest since you are in SG land, essentially the IEM custom cable heartland in Asia, go to Null Audio (null-audio.com), in Pioneer Junction as your first stop to get an idea what you are looking for as the only way to know is demo but you know this already so it really goes without saying.
After all, only you know your preferences & what kind of sound you like so you are the best person to make the decision whether cable rolling is for you or not.
As you have good music sources, or at least I hope you do, this shouldn't be a problem.
Though I suggest you email Null Audio first as it is my understanding despite their opening hours clearly listed, it may be tricky to go demo in their showroom.
As I haven't been there yet, my communication with them has always been email or even better since you are local, give them a call to see if they are available to help you.
If you have heard the Shozy Hibiki, then you have heard Null Audio's second 'step up from basic' cable, the Ethos, this is a good reference point as depending what IEM it is connected to, there may be some differences which may be apparent & some which sound exactly like stock. (your mileage varies will vary)
Personally I favour the Arete cable for various reasons, for aside from a nice expansion in staging & detail, to me at any rate, I like the comfort it provides more than anything else.
Now in terms of IEM cables you can' try before you buy, there are a few I would suggest considering & are as follows in no particular order :
iBasso CB 12 (Well paired with iBasso's IT series)
iBasso CB 13 (Well paired with iBasso's IT series)
Penon OS 849 (Works very well with IT 01, wider extended detail clarity close to if not 'reference' sound)
Penon GS 849 (Works very well with IT 01, wider extended detail clarity close to if not 'reference' sound but with added tone control)
All above are all my personal, subjective opinions & regarding GS 849, this never leaves the IT 01 (my daily go to) as I really enjoy this pairing.
So your mileage here may vary.
In closing, it is important to remember to have fun in this discovery process, most importantly...not be KIASU...(can't be overstated enough, your wallet will definitely thank you) & trust your ears, no one elses.
Good luck in your quest cable rolling.
Please feel free to PM me if you need more help on this.
I have always got good results from "OFC" Cables. That would be Oxygen Free Copper.. Not expensive to upgrade to. As others above me have stated >>> Just My Opinion !!!
From my own subjective experience I would say that cable impact on sound signature and technical performance is HIGHLY system / chain dependent. In a highly resolving system all cables (usb, interconnects, hp) can have a profound impact since they either create a bottleneck or “get out of the way”. In a less resolving system those same cables might not create bottlenecks and then the impact will be reduced. Demo a TOTL headphone and try switching all silver cables to all pure copper and it’s hardly the same headphone.
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