[pp312]

 
 

 
 
 
If you check the graph you'll see a considerable difference between the 600 and 650 between 3 and 5 khz. This is why you're hearing sibilance. The 600 has a peak right where the ear is most sensitive, and this is why I could never abide that phone and instead use the 650. There is a considerable difference between these phones, and despite what some people say, in this instance the graph tells it all.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I don't think any peak in the hd600 response is what is to blame. I can't imagine anyone being more sensitive to sibilance than me and I don't hear it. But who knows

 

[lejaz]

 
Quote:

=573&graphID[]=853]http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=573&graphID[]=853
 
If you check the graph you'll see a considerable difference between the 600 and 650 between 3 and 5 khz. This is why you're hearing sibilance. The 600 has a peak right where the ear is most sensitive, and this is why I could never abide that phone and instead use the 650. There is a considerable difference between these phones, and despite what some people say, in this instance the graph tells it all.

The graph only proves why there should be no sibilance. Most sibilance occurs above 5.5k or so...often quite a bit above. When I set up a de-esser for my own vocal recordings I often center it at 6.2k. In fact the graph appears to have a dip where a lot of sibilance occurs. Most likely it's the recording. I have some pretty horrible CD's where sibilance is concerned.

 

[the limp man]

Could be that i am overreacting, because i hear it in every recording. With the HD595 it does not stand out because it is a more forward can.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 

The graph only proves why there should be no sibilance. Most sibilance occurs above 5.5k or so...often quite a bit above. When I set up a de-esser for my own vocal recordings I often center it at 6.2k. In fact the graph appears to have a dip where a lot of sibilance occurs. Most likely it's the recording. I have some pretty horrible CD's where sibilance is concerned.

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Sibilance will certainly occur between 3 and 5khz--where the ear is most sensitive, as I said. We can argue it all day, I suppose, but as someone very familiar with both phones I would certainly be willing to bet that that is why the 600 is subjectively sharper and harsher than the 650, which it certainly is.  

 

[pp312]

Quote:

I don't think any peak in the hd600 response is what is to blame. I can't imagine anyone being more sensitive to sibilance than me and I don't hear it. But who knows

Well, now you've found someone who is more sensitive, because I do hear it. 
 
Actually it has a lot to do with the kind of music you listen to. Nothing, but nothing shows up treble harshness more severely than massed strings. I only have to listen to the violin section of the orchestra for a matter of seconds on any phone to know whether that phone is for me. So far, the only phones that have passed the test (and then only after heavy burn-in, like hundreds of hours) are the 650 and 595.  

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Sorry, but I totally disagree. Sibilance will certainly occur between 3 and 5khz--where the ear is most sensitive, as I said. We can argue it all day, I suppose, but as someone very familiar with both phones I would certainly be willing to bet that that is why the 600 is subjectively sharper and harsher than the 650, which it certainly is.  

The HD600's are definitely the brighter of the 3.  Very HD800-like in quality.  So you'll likely find the HD800 to be sibilant for you as well.

 

[the limp man]

I dont think i'll go for the HD600 then. It seems to be more sibilant than the hd595 and my amp (pro-ject headbox II SE) isn't an improvement with the hd600 vs xonar d2x. i am not planning on purchasing the HD600 AND a decent amp. Or are there other suggestions??
 
wich amps go wel with the hd600?

 

[Ham Sandwich]

 
Quote:

Well, now you've found someone who is more sensitive, because I do hear it. 
 
Actually it has a lot to do with the kind of music you listen to. Nothing, but nothing shows up treble harshness more severely than massed strings. I only have to listen to the violin section of the orchestra for a matter of seconds on any phone to know whether that phone is for me. So far, the only phones that have passed the test (and then only after heavy burn-in, like hundreds of hours) are the 650 and 595.  

What do you consider to be sibilance?  I think you're using a different concept of sibilance than what I consider sibilance to be.  How does treble harshness in orchestra violins define sibilance?  Sibilance is a vocal thing, esssey s's, spitty t's, thushy th's, spitty j's, artificial artifacts created by blowing on a microphone diaphragm.

 

[lejaz]

 
Quote:

 

What do you consider to be sibilance?  I think you're using a different concept of sibilance than what I consider sibilance to be.  How does treble harshness in orchestra violins define sibilance?  Sibilance is a vocal thing, esssey s's, spitty t's, thushy th's, spitty j's, artificial artifacts created by blowing on a microphone diaphragm.

Yes, I always thought sibilance was used to refer to harsh s's and t's in a vocal performance. I read how even a group like the Beatles, who could easily afford the best equipment, were always fighting this problem in the studio. I can understand how harshness with orchestral strings might occur at 3-5k because I use that range to cut the harshness of distorted electric guitars...or to increase it, when needed, for effect. Not trying to ague with the OP, just to clarify terms so we know what he's referring to...and not confuse it with vocal sibilance.

 

[Bilavideo]

The HD600 is the closest you're going to get - in the Sennheisers - to the legendary HD800, and because it has been "one-upped" twice, it's priced at a terrific discount.  Like the Grado RS-1, it has been around long enough to have survived the cloud of hype that hovers over every new product.  People don't buy these former flagships unless they like the sound.  Look at this FR Graph comparing the top Sennheisers with the Grado PS1000:
 
 

 
The HF spikes on the HD600 are nothing like an HF spike on a Grado, though there's one place where the HD600 is the brightest of the Sennheisers, and that's between 2.5 kHz and 5 kHz.  Even then, it only peaks above flat by a few dB - from 3-4 kHz.  As spikes go, this is pretty marginal, particularly up against the 10 dB spike of the PS1000 at 7 kHz.  In fact, this baby spike is less intense than the HD800's baby spike at  6kHz, though more noticeable because it's closer to the tonal center.  When the HD800 has its baby spike, the HD600 is 5 dB below flat.
 
Sibilance tends to be associated with higher frequencies, such as 8 kHz and beyond.  Yet from 4.5 kHz  and beyond, the HD600 remains below the line.  If you're experiencing sibilance, it's either the track, the source unit or the amp.  Some recordings are sibilant on purpose.  The engineer wanted to give the track a certain sheen to compensate for the HF roll-off of FM radio.  Some tracks - especially from the 80s - are gratingly sibilant.  On the other hand, if the amping is anemic, you'll get sibilance.  I get it off of my HD800 if I listen to it from an unamped iPod.
 
Bear in mind that if a vendor is selling headphones that are dark, altering the track or source to make it brighter is to be expected.  The material Bose uses to demo its headphones is carefully selected to showcase what strengths there are and to hide sonic deficiencies.  In fact, I can take a pair of JVC Marshmallows, which are dark and bassy, and EQ them to something much more acceptable, thereby hiding minimizing the deficiencies and showcasing the presentation.  It's deceptive but it happens.
 
You need to listen to the headphones in question from a variety of tracks.  If you can swap out their source for yours, you're better off, but don't forget to amp the headphones properly.  Otherwise, you'll get a tonal imbalance.  Under-amped 650s sound dark and veiled.  Under-amped 600s may seem tinny (That's at least the result with under-amped HD800s).
 
 

 

[the limp man]

thanks for all the reply's. Right now i have both headphones at home. The HD600 and the HD595. As a source i use a Asus D2X with Foobar (kernel streaming. Amp is a Pro-ject headbox II SE.
 
HD600: much more bright than the hd 595 sometimes it sounds thin with good bass and vocals.I suspect the amp is the cause for the thin sounding. And i am not planning on buying the hd600 now for alot of $$$ and then buy an amp for more $$$ to enjoy it.
 
HD595: more upfront, with good vocals (hd600 are better), ok bass and good high tones.
 
Right now i think it is better to buy the HD595 and a decent DAC as a replacement for my asus soundcard, and built up from there. What do you guys think?
 
Again sorry for my bad english.

 

[rhythmdevils]

you don't necessarily need an expensive amp/source to get rid of the sibilance, you just need a warmer one.  Granted, it will sound better with better gear, but every source and amp has a different tonal balance.  That's a big part of what synergy is all about, and synergy is much more important than dollars spent.  If you're planning on upgrading your source or amp, then do it before you sell the HD600, and get something that is not so harsh.

 

[the limp man]

i dont own the hd600, i have it om demo. So i have to decide if i will keep it or not. It is much to bright now, so i need a warmer source or amp or buy the hd595 and a dac. what say you?
 
//
As i stated before it has to sound good with the equipment that i have now. Or else it is a waste. or am i totaly wrong here.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

//
As i stated before it has to sound good with the equipment that i have now. Or else it is a waste. or am i totaly wrong here.

The correctness of that claim is very personal.  I'd suggest going along with what you wish, so if you don't wish to change your equipment at this time, then go with the HD595's.