[Justin_Time]

Hey guys, just got the se846... anyone could tell me if I can use a portable dac/amp combo for both Android (currently SIII mini) and a laptop? Or is it much better to buy a high-end audio player instead?
I'm ready to kill a tiny bit of power if I can keep smartphone abilities but if difference is that great I might directly buy a player.

Tried the e12 but doesn't sound that great, especially on smartphone (because no line out I guess).

I get very good sound out of the AK100 and AK120 (modified by RWA to reduce the output impedance) with both the SE535 and SE846.

I tried the AK240 (non modified) and Chord Hugo and the sound improvement was noticeable but not significant enough for me to spend the additional $1,400 to upgrade.

I know, I know, we are way beyond the point of diminishing return for any of these gears but even at this level, I prefer to spend the cost difference to get another toy.

After 40 years in this hobby, I haven't become any wiser, just a lot slower as I get older, so I make fewer mistakes. One of the few things I learned is that there is better value--if such a thing exists in high-end audio--in the second-best gears than in the flagships. You can get the flagship in a year or two when the new flagship comes out and the old flagship is relegated to second best--to the annoyance of some of the owner who paid through the nose for it. By the way, that happens to all flagships.

I define experience as that amazing ability to recognize the mistake as you are making it again. I bought three (yes, 3) pairs of the Fostex TH900 when they just came out at $2,000 each. Now they are $1,300 each! But I am experienced now. I will make the same mistake again, but not as fast as I will be a little older and slower, though not necessarily wiser...

 

[Whazzzup]

Do you mean the ak240 was not appreciably better paired with the hugo than say an I phone. You don't mean to say the hugo is not apreciably better? The Hugo imo, is worth the money and unfortunately there are some companies with products that don't really devalue. Chord and ak for an example. Course outside of sales...

 

[milford30]

I don't understand why people recommend expensive dap with an expensive dac/amp combo, for USB/optical/coaxial out, doesn't the dap (ak240) just send the 1 and 0s of the digital file to the dac of the combo (hugo)? so in theory as long as the player software doesn't do anything stupid, say the iphone via lightning out should sound the same as the ak240 (usb out?)? Since the music doesn't pass through the dap's dac.

 

[KeuNamoo]

The Intruder and SR71B are affordable to me, just have to pick one. 

To be honest AK240+HUGO is too expensive for now, but maybe later if it's really a stellar difference with smartphone+amp.

Will the iPod touch alone be able to drive the SE846 to a good level?  What about the iPod classic and iPhone 6? (EDIT: same question for Huawei Ascend Mate 7 )

Thank you

I use an ipod touch 5th gen which uses the lightning over the 30pin and id say no it could at least use a basic headphone amp with bass boost even better the extra wattage helps the low impedance headphones with more complex builds come alive and evens out the signal between the armatures. I just use a cheap cmoybb v2.03 and it already makes a big difference with bass boost. A dap honestly isn't needed imho if a majority of your music is not flac/alac but your music should at least be 320kb

 

[Whazzzup]

  I don't understand why people recommend expensive dap with an expensive dac/amp combo, for USB/optical/coaxial out, doesn't the dap (ak240) just send the 1 and 0s of the digital file to the dac of the combo (hugo)? so in theory as long as the player software doesn't do anything stupid, say the iphone via lightning out should sound the same as the ak240 (usb out?)? Since the music doesn't pass through the dap's dac.

seems logical, i think the same, am i missing something?
 
apple lossless at what 320 sounds great as well, am I missing something?

 

[ridicul0us]

  seems logical, i think the same, am i missing something?
 
apple lossless at what 240 sounds great as well, am I missing something?

 

  I don't understand why people recommend expensive dap with an expensive dac/amp combo, for USB/optical/coaxial out, doesn't the dap (ak240) just send the 1 and 0s of the digital file to the dac of the combo (hugo)? so in theory as long as the player software doesn't do anything stupid, say the iphone via lightning out should sound the same as the ak240 (usb out?)? Since the music doesn't pass through the dap's dac.

 
Can't believe it's not only me who think this way. I have been wondering for a long time XD. I suppose people just want to show-off their rig or their money is overflowing.

 

[gonzfi]

Logically this sounds correct to me. As long as the music is ripped to the best possible level it shouldn't matter where it comes from (although it might matter how it is transported to the DAP). I have ripped my music to the largest .wav files possible and can play it via either my HTC One M8 or AK240. If I attach them to my Hugo the sound is clearer from the AK240 with the only difference being the AK240 is connected via the optical input and the M8 via USB. I'm interested to know whether I have a chunk of money tied up in the AK240 pointlessly except for the optical output being better.

 

[milford30]

  seems logical, i think the same, am i missing something?
 
apple lossless at what 240 sounds great as well, am I missing something?

 
I doubt many people, if any will be able to tell apple lossless (flac) vs well ripped (say with foobar) aac 240k (320k mp3).
 
I also doubt higher power amp will make a high sensitive+low impedance iem sound better, most people use the usb out of their player, which bypasses the built in volume attenuator /eq which makes it sound better. if you plug your amp in the headphone out of the player, it sounds like louder crap.
 
For example using neutron/poweramp bypasses the eq (still degrades the music even if turned off on android phones), which many would say makes it sound better. Since the ideal amp should be a wire that makes the signal bigger, turning down the volume knob would have the same effect as if the amp isn't there. This is assuming your goal is not to change the signal (using tube amp). 

 

[Whazzzup]

 
seems logical, i think the same, am i missing something?

apple lossless at what 240 sounds great as well, am I missing something?

I doubt many people, if any will be able to tell apple lossless (flac) vs well ripped (say with foobar) aac 240k (320k mp3).

I also doubt higher power amp will make a high sensitive+low impedance iem sound better, most people use the usb out of their player, which bypasses the built in volume attenuator /eq which makes it sound better. if you plug your amp in the headphone out of the player, it sounds like louder crap.

For example using neutron/poweramp bypasses the eq (still degrades the music even if turned off on android phones), which many would say makes it sound better. Since the ideal amp should be a wire that makes the signal bigger, turning down the volume knob would have the same effect as if the amp isn't there. This is assuming your goal is not to change the signal (using tube amp). 

Try the Hugo / iPhone direct test, there is a significant difference. Low impedience or not iem or cans. sound stage, bass, 3d enhancement of instruments. Imo.

 

[milford30]

Try the Hugo / iPhone direct test, there is a significant difference. Low impedience or not iem or cans. sound stage, bass, 3d enhancement of instruments. Imo.

Can you please explain what you mean by 'direct test'?
 
EDIT: I forgot to mention the output impedance must be similar i.e both device must have output impedance of lower than 1 ohms (se846 9 ohms /8) to avoid matching output impedance issues. 

 

[Whazzzup]

I mean 846 to i phone versus 846 to hugo.

 

[milford30]

Logically this sounds correct to me. As long as the music is ripped to the best possible level it shouldn't matter where it comes from (although it might matter how it is transported to the DAP). I have ripped my music to the largest .wav files possible and can play it via either my HTC One M8 or AK240. If I attach them to my Hugo the sound is clearer from the AK240 with the only difference being the AK240 is connected via the optical input and the M8 via USB. I'm interested to know whether I have a chunk of money tied up in the AK240 pointlessly except for the optical output being better.

 
Appears I was wrong, USB out does NOT bypass the built in eq degrades music even if you turn eq 'off' (tested myself with samsung phones only): 
 
https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/usb-dac-audio-volume-control.72959/
"I can attest that my microStreamer indeed plays sound, but only at max volume (which is way too loud with my Etymotic in ear phones). The best workaround is to use the AudioFX app to fully attenuate all equalizer bands (-15db) for usb sound"
 
So maybe using a player better quality eq that bypasses the android eq i.e usb audio player pro / player pro / gonemad / poweramp etc...and checking the use third party dps option (important a lot of ppl miss this step and use android eq) may help.
 

I mean 846 to i phone versus 846 to hugo.

Yes it should, much better dac and amp section than the iphone's amp section

 

[AndrewH13]

Difference between transports can be jitter. Same 0s and 1s, but timing affected. Unless reclocked by the DAC.

 

[spook76]

I used to agree with all the naysayers in regards to the efficacy of a balanced amplier then doubted how much a DAC can make a difference.

With balanced amps, I purchased the RSA Protector with my old 535s and heard a significant improvement immediately. A couple years later I bought the RSA Lightning after talking to people like JAmato here on Headfi who know and have heard both amps and I was very happy. That is why MCoupe simply sent his Intruder to me to give it a listen as I had no real interest and doubted his claims.

I already had the RSA Lightning so I doubted until the moment I put the Intruder into my rig. The Intruder only resolves up to 24/48 (no handicap to me as all my music files are FLAC/ALAC at 16/44 redbook) but the Burr Brown DAC and the implementation of the DAC was amazing. With the CCK camera kit I can pull a pure digital signal out of my iPod Touch turning it into simply a storage device.

MCoupe now has the Chord Hugo and after talking to him he describes it as a substantial improvement over my/his old Intruder. I now have absolutely no doubt he is correct. I have warned him of two things if he ever sends it to me for demo. One, I would buy one imediately and two I would kill one of his sons and frame him for it.

The point of this story is while I am a sceptic by nature nothing beats listening to it yourself and deciding for yourself.

 

[immtbiker]

   
I doubt many people, if any will be able to tell apple lossless (flac) vs well ripped (say with foobar) aac 240k (320k mp3).

 
I find the key differences are depth of soundstage, air around the instruments, and presence of low background sounds that can be heard on flac/alac,
but are missing from the 320 kbps sample from the same original recording.
 
It may be subtle, but once you hear it, it's as obvious as obvious gets. 
Walking around or on public transportation? Who cares…320 is good enough. But listen with high end equipment in a quiet environment and it matters.