[castleofargh]

it always comes down to what we think about doing something without evidence that it has an impact. some feel reassured by some weirdo rituals(dance naked on a full moon while playing pink noise for 13h37). and just for that peace of mind, feel like there is a benefit to doing it. while others will think that doing something for no reason is the definition of wasting time and energy, which is not beneficial in any way.
the actual impact of "burn in" on most gears ranks from super small change, to failing to find objective evidence that it improved anything at all. BA drivers are very much in that second group as far as I know.


on the other hand, we have evidence that 100% of people will feel change over time as they get to use new gears. that IMO deserves to be taken seriously instead deflecting and blaming gears for our own lack in stability. it doesn't mean gears cannot and will never change, but let that be demonstrated objectively instead of pretending to know better based on the mighty power of gut feelings and poor memory.


so yes IEMs can need some getting used to, tips have a lifespan much shorter than what most of us assume it to be, dampers or other protection grads can get obstructed by wax and dust, physical shocks are not good for the semi liquid magnetic crap used in BA drivers. but burn in IMO isn't what people should be concerned about. not based on the actual evidence we have so far.

 

[yong_shun]

According to my own experiences in using a BA drivers IEM, I really feel significant differences after 100 hours break in. Since this is a forum I think it is my freedom to provide my opinion. Opinion can be personal experience. I will just quit this thread then since 100% correct fact is needed. This is tougher than my uni examination. Happy listening.

 

[Brooko]

Someone asked for advice - and you gave an opinion and stated it as fact. That's my beef. All the known evidence points to there being no break-in with BA drivers, and that includes evidence from the manufacturer.

I've reviewed a lot of straight BA's - which I've measured OOTB and then weeks later. No frequency change. You didn't just state that there was change, you stated:

Yes. Just plug it into a source and run it for 100 to 200 hours. You will find a significant difference.

I don't think it unreasonable to ask for evidence to how you came about this conclusion - including things like:

• how did you volume match?
• did you use the same tips?
• how did you overcome auditory memory issues (which we know typically only last seconds - much less than a minute), when comparing OOTB to after break-in many. many hours later?

I'm not trying to get on your case - I'm just trying to point out to you how silly claims like these are - and to encourage you to look at the evidence, and maybe re-examine your thought process.

Perpetuating myth helps no-one.

 

[yong_shun]

I will still follow what my personal finding.
You can call me stupid, stubborn or silly.
It is too time consuming for me to prove it to you.
If you like, you can shoot me at every post I commented
I am trying to help with my personal experiences. Happy listening.

 

[castleofargh]

According to my own experiences in using a BA drivers IEM, I really feel significant differences after 100 hours break in. Since this is a forum I think it is my freedom to provide my opinion. Opinion can be personal experience. I will just quit this thread then since 100% correct fact is needed. This is tougher than my uni examination. Happy listening.

let's try to be constructive instead of clashing for the enjoyment of the pleb. what are your facts? you believe you've felt a significant change after 100hours. then end.
how does that directly lead to the conclusion that burn in caused that impression of change and that if someone goes through 100 hours of burn in using whatever magical recipe, then he's experience the same significant changes? you know something I don't, or maybe you dismissed/ignored so many other possibilities that you thought it was a direct line from feeling something to blaming burn in for it?

first we'd need to have a way to check if your perception of change is caused by an actual change in sound. meaning we need measurements. there is no need to get on the defensive or be frustrated that I don't fully trust someone on the internet without evidence. of course I have mega skepticism turned ON anytime I'm on the web. justifiably so.
but let's say we had evidence of change for your IEM for the sake of proceeding to making an actual diagnostic. if confirmed that at least part of your impressions do come from a change in sound instead of altered memory, biases, etc, we still have no clue about what actually caused that change.
is it because you got used to placing the IEM differently after a while? maybe a change in the way you press the olive tip before inserting it? maybe the tip itself changed a little in elasticity and texture over time and use? maybe the temperature changed significantly and had various subtle consequences. maybe your lifestyle or activities changes over time and that changed the amount of use for the IEM, letting it dry up completely instead of being full of humidity. maybe all those changes over time also impacted the amount of wax in your ear or the very shape of your ear canal?
maybe you suffered from a small hearing loss over that period of time? could the change be caused by the few times you inevitably hit the IEM somewhere more or less violently(from small drop on a desk to falling on the ground)? could it be some crushing or exaggerated flexing of the cable that significantly increased the impedance and changed the signature of the IEM as a result? could it be some of the earwax and dust getting into the tip, wax guard, damper... ? significant or not, those stuff can definitely have an acoustic impact.

there is a vast range of more or less likely possibilities. some of the stuff I mentioned are a little silly, but I don't know that they couldn't happen to you and have bigger measurable impact than driver burn in. so why would I dismiss them and not burn in? they're still among the possibilities until properly tested to be irrelevant and dismissed as such. as far as I know, BA driver burn in isn't substantiated by evidence. so the significant audibility of it is even harder to swallow without any form of proof. of course I have a problem with someone's claim that burn in will have a significant impact on the IEM's sound. why wouldn't I?

about freedom of speech and the right to share an opinion, it's a 2 way road. do you think you're more annoyed and offended by us exposing your empty claim? or that we're more annoyed from having to read your empty claim in the first place? @Brooko and I probably wouldn't have posted anything if you didn't make that empty claim out of nowhere. you basically complain about a situation of your own making so I'm not sure it's really fair of you to try and play the victim.

it's very nice to try and help your fellow Head-Fiers like you often do, I'm sure many are very grateful for your efforts. but if you feed them a lousy unsubstantiated claim, how is that helping?

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Brooko]

I will still follow what my personal finding.
You can call me stupid, stubborn or silly.
It is too time consuming for me to prove it to you.
If you like, you can shoot me at every post I commented
I am trying to help with my personal experiences. Happy listening.

I did not (and would not) call you stupid, stubborn or silly.

But I am within both the forum rules and also quite correctly (according to the known facts) able to call your claim silly - there is a difference.

I would ask you a very simple question - which should be enough to challenge your beliefs - instead of this refusal to confront reality:

If the manufacturer of the earphone (and they make hundreds of thousands of these, and therefore test hundreds of thousands) state that burn in will not affect the audible output - what makes you think yours are so special to defy fact based evidence? Is your personal experience valuable to others if you are wrong?

I would suggest looking up "placebo", and "confirmation bias". And if you want an example of the sort of tricks your mind can play on what you think you hear, give this a little try (1st 10 minutes should be quite enlightening).



I know it can be challenging to let go of long held beliefs (read the quote in my sig ) - but the wonder of true knowledge is that it then opens us up to other possibilities which we may not have considered. Either way - enjoy the music.

 

[dwil]

OH - and for the record I owned the SE535 Ltd from new. So also speaking from experience. They do not need burn-in.

Sorry for reviving old thread, Brooko have you reviewed the se535 anywhere?

 

[Brooko]

I owned the SE535 Ltd Ed for about 18 months. Sadly - I never reviewed it. Beautiful quick and balanced bass (IMO) and the Ltd Ed had a little more treble extension than the original. The problem with the 535 Ltd Ed is that I found the mids a little too forward for my tastes (and I'm a bit of a "mid-head"), so in the end I let them go. Really good earphones though.

 

[dwil]

I owned the SE535 Ltd Ed for about 18 months. Sadly - I never reviewed it. Beautiful quick and balanced bass (IMO) and the Ltd Ed had a little more treble extension than the original. The problem with the 535 Ltd Ed is that I found the mids a little too forward for my tastes (and I'm a bit of a "mid-head"), so in the end I let them go. Really good earphones though.

Does any of the cheaper chi-stuff compare to se535? what is the cheapest iem that you would say is better than the se535? Any of the dunus? Have you tried the Rose Mini 4?

I'm looking for something to complement my se535 with. Doesn't have to be an 'upgrade', sidegrade would do, not looking to spend another $500. I too am tired of the forward mids and the lack of treble extension/air. What iems would you recommend?

 

[Brooko]

For that I’d need a little more info

Are you looking for similar sound or something contrasting? And what type of contrast. Eg for something with still a lot of balance, but more bass and a little more lower treble (still not fatiguing though) - then something like the Simgot EN700 Pro is a great earphone. It depends what tonality you want though

 

[dwil]

For that I’d need a little more info

Are you looking for similar sound or something contrasting? And what type of contrast. Eg for something with still a lot of balance, but more bass and a little more lower treble (still not fatiguing though) - then something like the Simgot EN700 Pro is a great earphone. It depends what tonality you want though

Thanks for the reply. I'm still looking for something balanced, i just want something like the se535 with a touch less mids, a bit more subbass and better treble extension (my se535 are very dull past 13khz). And comfort is a bit of a priority too, the simgot seems like its pretty bulky, I was hoping something shaped like the se535. For more context, I want my se535 to have the treble extension of my dt880. I like how airy and spacious the dt880s sound. I want iems with dt880's sound signature except with a bit more bass.

 

[Brooko]

Easy choice then - FiiO F9 Pro

 

[dwil]

Easy choice then - FiiO F9 Pro

Sweet, it looks pretty good, pretty cheap too. Anything else I should look at if I'm willing to spend twice as much? Or should I spend that money on an amp/dac? All I have right now is a galaxy s7 that I plan to plug it into.

 

[Brooko]

Won’t need further amping. For another option further up the price chain - Earsonics ES3.

 

[voidedsoul]

Won’t need further amping. For another option further up the price chain - Earsonics ES3.

I own the earsonics es3 and have a good deal for the se535s Ltd edition. Will the shure compliment the es3?