[siruspan]

I may be in a minority of one here, but I just don't get the hype around the IER-Z1R. I tried to love them. Honestly. I'd jump at the chance to not have to carry an eletrostatic amp. But there's something about the IER-Z1R's very uneven frequency response that just sounded off to me. Unnatural sounding. There's also a coarseness and a veil over their sound. They do have better treble extension than the SE846, but I'd still choose the latter any day, because the IER-Z1R reminds me, every microsecond I'm listening to it, that I'm most definitely listening through a pair of headphones. And that's only because of the sound - you've also got to contend with the fact that the earbuds are pretty large and heavy - they're not the worst for ergonomics, but some people are surely going to have fit issues. They're nothing like the comfy secure fit of a Shure earbud.

I found the FiR Audio M5 to be a least a couple of levels ahead of the IER-Z1R.

Yea they are big and heavy. I find them comfortable for about 2 hours and then starts being worse. After a whole day my ears are sore.

As for the sound they are kinda v-shaped but not really. A lot of subbas, midrange that could be closer and very nice, extended higs. They are quite bright but warm at the same time. I find them quite natural sounding but definately not neutral, far from it. Big and open soundstage. Thicker note weight which gives more of a substantial feeling to everything. I like them a lot but not as a KSE replacement because they are quite different.

 

[holicst]

Has anyone heard the new Final Audio A8000 or the Dunu Luna? Those have pure beryllium diaphragms and promise excellent transparency. It would be great to know any of those is close to the KSE1500/1200, as their obvious advantage is that they don't need a separate amp.

 

[TYATYA]

Kse1200 in Japan just take you $1390.
I think there is not on Earth a thing at twice cost but can do same audio performance.
Even in e.stat stuffs world

 

[118900]

They don't like thinner or brighter sources in my opinion. Hook them up to something warmer and the they shine like nothing else.

BTW I've found something else that has outstanding treble response. It's not from BA, piezo or electrostatic driver but from a dynamic tweeter from Sony IER-Z1R. I still think that Shure treble is the king but sony done a great job with this driver. I'm not saying that Sony are an alternative because they are quite different but IER-Z1R are very impressive.

Running from dragonfly cobalt and hugo2 neither of which are over bright. I think it’s more my personal treble sensitivity. The do seem to be improving slightly unless it’s my ears getting used to them.
Going to try them with the nordost heimdall ikable to see what that does.

 

[joshnor713]

What's peoples' stance on the amber light? Do you turn the source down until you get only a green light, or where you're seeing the amber pop up here and there?

Furthermore, is there anything wrong per-se for the amp to clip? Is it potentially damaging to the drivers? Forgive my lack of knowledge here.

 

[118900]

What's peoples' stance on the amber light? Do you turn the source down until you get only a green light, or where you're seeing the amber pop up here and there?

Furthermore, is there anything wrong per-se for the amp to clip? Is it potentially damaging to the drivers? Forgive my lack of knowledge here.

Mine goes right from green to red so I stick to green

 

[csglinux]

Has anyone heard the new Final Audio A8000 or the Dunu Luna? Those have pure beryllium diaphragms and promise excellent transparency. It would be great to know any of those is close to the KSE1500/1200, as their obvious advantage is that they don't need a separate amp.

Unless there's something disastrously wrong with Jude's measurements for that DUNU LUNA (which I doubt), I can't see any scenario in which I'd enjoy its tuning. A 2020 flagship IEM that rolls off like that at both ends? Really? Are we all gullible audiofool sheep that will purchase any headphone just because it's a shiny new expensive TOTL flagship and prominently-featured on headfi tv?!? (<-- Spot the irony.)

On the other hand, that A8000 is definitely on my radar. I think that may be worth a listen. One day there's certain to be a non-electrostatic-amp-driven IEM that can compete with the KSE. I don't think there's anything crucial that's intrinsic and exclusive to electrostatic technology. IMHO, it's all about the FR (meaning purely amplitude vs frequency). If anybody would like to play Devil's advocate here, I'm up for a spirited debate. Let me know what you think is also important (phase, impulse, square-wave response, harmonic distortion, etc.) and I'll tell you why it's not

Of course, current non-electrostatic drivers tend to have more limited bandwidth. BA drivers, in particular, struggle with the very low and the very high frequencies. But there can be other ways forward without needing an electrostatic amp. Of course, when/if a particular driver, or set of drivers, is tuned to match the KSE, other properties (e.g., impulse response) may also end up coming along for the ride.

One thing we already know about the Final Audio A8000 - it won't isolate like a Shure. The A8000 is part of an unfortunate trend toward multiple vents on IEMs. Handy as a tuning device for the OEM; not so handy for isolation for the listener.

If you want a small, ergonomically-shaped earbud with thin nozzles that you can put foam tips on and get a good, comfortable seal with very good isolation and still have very good treble extension, you have few choices beyond the KSE. In fact, I can't think of any other choices. Can anybody else?

 

[118900]

Has anyone found that the kse1200/1500 require run in? If so how long?

 

[TYATYA]

Has anyone found that the kse1200/1500 require run in? If so how long?

KSA(the amp) sounds not same on 1200 v.s 1500.
I dont know if it is belong to tuning, designing of the amp or effect of time after 5 years.
(My) 1200 beats harder and shaper than (my) 1500.

 

[118900]

KSA(the amp) sounds not same on 1200 v.s 1500.
I dont know if it is belong to tuning, designing of the amp or effect of time after 5 years.
(My) 1200 beats harder and shaper than (my) 1500.

Understood thanks, but did you notice a change/improvement in the earphones during the first hours/tens of hours initial use?

my understanding is that shure states that their products do not require any substantial breaking in and I can agree with that with my original 425s and my current 846s but the KSE1200s are noticeably improving in the treble the more I play them. The treble is more reigned in, less sibilant and splashy without losing detail. Growing on me more and more. Incredible sounds stage for in ears

 

[nanaholic]

Has anyone heard the new Final Audio A8000 or the Dunu Luna? Those have pure beryllium diaphragms and promise excellent transparency. It would be great to know any of those is close to the KSE1500/1200, as their obvious advantage is that they don't need a separate amp.

For the A8000 I tried it out of my WM1Z at different occasions, the WM1Z is already a more lush presentation compared with most other flagship DAPs yet the treble is still way too clinical and sharp for my taste and I don't think it is as good in striking that balance between toe-tapping "fun" and transparency as the KSE1200. Plus I've yet to hear a dynamic IEM that can reproduce the speed of a succession of cymbal and high hats hits in a fast song as good or precise as an electrostat such as the KSE system. My conclusion of the A8000 is that it is one of those technically excellent earphones that aren't particularly enjoyable because of its brutally revealing nature which rends most of my collection unenjoyable and thus belongs to the same basket as the likes of the HD800 - I respect them technically, but will never have the urge to own or listen to them.

Also if you have the money to purchase the A8000 and are trying to drive it to or near its maximum potential you probably already own or going to buy a big flagship DAP with a strong output which isn't going to be small or light either way. However I don't think you actually need that for the KSE system because all you need for the KSE system is a transparent, clean and noise free output. I currently use the KSE1200 with a Sony A105 Walkman, which is something that I can fit neatly into the palm of my hand.

 

[TYATYA]

Understood thanks, but did you notice a change/improvement in the earphones during the first hours/tens of hours initial use?

my understanding is that shure states that their products do not require any substantial breaking in and I can agree with that with my original 425s and my current 846s but the KSE1200s are noticeably improving in the treble the more I play them. The treble is more reigned in, less sibilant and splashy without losing detail. Growing on me more and more. Incredible sounds stage for in ears

I did not notice tonal changing. Or it is less effect than the changing of interconnect, which I feel.
From your describe, what you hear in burning is similar to compare volume level 24 and 25/25 of kse1500 v.s lower volume level : dry and harsh.
(Ofcourse input level must be adjust adaptive with output).
Headstage of kse1500 is relatively small out of the box, especiall when run internal dac.
A wide sound stage source is called for.
1200 is no dac variant so your dap will take its role. Modding ear tip is better than any stock (some pics you can found in this thread)

 

[siruspan]

One day there's certain to be a non-electrostatic-amp-driven IEM that can compete with the KSE. I don't think there's anything crucial that's intrinsic and exclusive to electrostatic technology. IMHO, it's all about the FR (meaning purely amplitude vs frequency). If anybody would like to play Devil's advocate here, I'm up for a spirited debate. Let me know what you think is also important (phase, impulse, square-wave response, harmonic distortion, etc.) and I'll tell you why it's not

Electrostatics have super thin and light diaphragm because they don't use heavy coil to move. The way they sound has nothing to do with the frequency response. You can mimic the kse frequency response with the BA drivers and it will not posses the same stenghts as pure electrostatic driver. Electrostatics are nothing new. I've owned couple of Stax headphones old and new like Lambda Pro from the 80s and quite recent sr-507 and they are diferent to each other but possess the same qualities. 30 years have passed since Lambda pro and there's still nothing like it on the market, only other electrostatics. There won't be something similar until someone develops completely new type of driver.

 

[118900]

I did not notice tonal changing. Or it is less effect than the changing of interconnect, which I feel.
From your describe, what you hear in burning is similar to compare volume level 24 and 25/25 of kse1500 v.s lower volume level : dry and harsh.
(Ofcourse input level must be adjust adaptive with output).
Headstage of kse1500 is relatively small out of the box, especiall when run internal dac.
A wide sound stage source is called for.
1200 is no dac variant so your dap will take its role. Modding ear tip is better than any stock (some pics you can found in this thread)

Yep. Using the dragonfly cobalt for daily listening and hugo2 for reference. Have changed the tips out to comply comfort +

 

[csglinux]

The way they sound has nothing to do with the frequency response. You can mimic the kse frequency response with the BA drivers...

You see I don't think you can. Not yet. Current BA drivers can't deliver the extended high frequencies that the KSE can. If I'm wrong, I'd love recommendations on any BA headphone that mimicks (or gets close to) the KSE's FR.

As you say, it requires a new type of driver. Maybe one day, there will be much smaller BAs that are equivalently light and fast. Once you have those high-frequencies in the FR, the impulse response will follow.

It is all about the FR