[Piotr Michalak]

/EDITED OUT SORRY/

 

[siruspan]

@Piotr Michalak what about using your Ultima equalizer and leaving KSE EQ off?

 

[tekkster]

"mojo is over-priced"

For my sound profile preferences, this is not the case, and I irrationally buy a fair bit of gear. I own a fair number of portable amps and dacs and daps. Mojo continues to be a mainstay and I continue to prefer the Mojo sound over other gear. It's only the inconvenience of the MojoPoly combination that relegates it to longer session usage scenarios. e.g. 1+ hour flights or train rides, etc. If it were more convenient to use, I'd be using it constantly instead of the R6 or R3 which is just convenient. For really long listening sessions while traveling, like long coffee shop laptop work, or late night hotel listening, I use a different setup. But otherwise, the Mojo remains a rock solid device and well worth the price for my listening.

 

[tekkster]

Here is an article with pictures:

https://www.headphone-earphone.reviews/2018/01/12/chord-2go-hugo-2/

There are also some updates in the Hugo 2 thread I think.

The specs are still not official but it should do everything that the Mojo Poly does and it will have 2 micro sd card slots. No official date and no pricing yet.

Also forgot to mention one major advantage of Hugo 2 - it has variable line out so you set the optimal input to your KSE. You want to set input just short of clipping.

Haven't been following the H2 thread much. Excited about the 2Go

 

[tekkster]

@Piotr Michalak Interesting information, and yes, the equalizer in the KSE1500 sounds nice.

When using the KSE1200, I run the Opus 3 via optical to H2 to KSE1200. EQ setting adjustments on the Opus3 carry over to the KSE1200 very well. To each their own, but just the fact that KSE1500 can do EQ settings with its internal DAC doesn't necessarily convince me that it would be better than the setup I use. Maybe it is, and I won't buy the KSE1500 since I already have the KSE1200, so maybe I'll never know.

Either way, thanks for the information. It was an interesting read.

 

[Piotr Michalak]

@Piotr Michalak Interesting information, and yes, the equalizer in the KSE1500 sounds nice.

When using the KSE1200, I run the Opus 3 via optical to H2 to KSE1200. EQ setting adjustments on the Opus3 carry over to the KSE1200 very well. To each their own, but just the fact that KSE1500 can do EQ settings with its internal DAC doesn't necessarily convince me that it would be better than the setup I use. Maybe it is, and I won't buy the KSE1500 since I already have the KSE1200, so maybe I'll never know.

Either way, thanks for the information. It was an interesting read.

Oh yes, thank you, that's an important point I've completely missed. My Ultima EQ basically is too weak to tune KSE doing a good job - it's bands even with the widest parametric setting act like "needles" in the frequency graph. AK380 EQ is completely the same. Haven't yet tried with my WM1Z which has much better bands, but there are only a few of them and no parametric possibility. Also WM1Z is a heavy companion to KSE. I will test them though. Have never used Opus myself, but one thing I would recommend is measure all EQ settings, as we don't really know how KSE will respond to a setting (I input an EQ on one end, and KSE does some strange stuff on the other, it works like a magical black box).

 

[Piotr Michalak]

@Piotr Michalak what about using your Ultima equalizer and leaving KSE EQ off?

Yes, exactly - it does not work very well ;-(
Also! I have a feeling that Ultima EQ somehow diminishes quality, dynamics and stuff. I can't even listen to it with other earphones, something is off.

EDIT: I did try with WM1Z EQ and strange things happen. It seems to have almost no effect on KSE. I don't understand it. I won't even post graphs for now.

 

[Music junky]

Now my kse1500 is truly portable not just transportable. MO AND KSE1500 perfect match.

 

[tekkster]

Oh yes, thank you, that's an important point I've completely missed. My Ultima EQ basically is too weak to tune KSE doing a good job - it's bands even with the widest parametric setting act like "needles" in the frequency graph. AK380 EQ is completely the same. Haven't yet tried with my WM1Z which has much better bands, but there are only a few of them and no parametric possibility. Also WM1Z is a heavy companion to KSE. I will test them though. Have never used Opus myself, but one thing I would recommend is measure all EQ settings, as we don't really know how KSE will respond to a setting (I input an EQ on one end, and KSE does some strange stuff on the other, it works like a magical black box).

Wish I could, but I don't have a good way to measure, and while I very much enjoy reading about measurements done by passionate individuals such as yourself and many many other great writers on these forums, I confess to not having enough passion to take up measuring audio myself. For me, as long as I can attain the sound profile I want (namely, chasing the vibration sounds of violins, cellos, some woodwind instruments, and percussion, while also bringing up subtler details, zero floor noise) through a really good chain, I'm happy. Sometimes I enjoy a little extra bass, but usually I want the bass pushed down as it distracts from the instrument sounds and vocal sounds I chase.

It's also why I don't pay as much attention to frequency response in headphones. That measurement specification also doesn't matter to me, since the music I listen to has the lowest frequencies around 40 Hz, at the extreme, and usually don't need bass below 80Hz, and on the high end, nothing I listen to goes about 13kHz (plus my hearing only goes from about 19Hz to 15kHz, so isn't very good, and as such I don't need much better than that).

For the sound profile I chase, the KSE1200 does very well, though some subtleties are a little quieter than I like. The Utopias and SR009s work better for me. But neither of those are portable, and since those are open back, the KSE1200 is a very very nice portable solution.

I rarely use the EQ feature, except when music is excessively bass heavy, in which case I'll drop the bass quite a bit. Sometimes treble can be glaring so i might drop it a smidge, but most of the time, leave it alone. Once in a rare while, I'll up the mids to bring out the percussion a little more, chasing a snappier cymbal or snare drum, or maybe bring up the upper mids in search of a more prominent violin, but again, rarely.

 

[SilverEars]

Sharing. Why am I happy that I overpaid $1k for KSE1500 vs later introduced KSE1200.

Before I started measuring things I thought KSE + full silicone shell is the apotheosis of "flat". How wrong I was. This is how it sounds:


Remind yourself of Harman target curve and there are others also...


So basically what we have in KSE1500 is a very good equalizer, although limited to +/- "6" dB (it does not always work so) and 4 bands (2 of which are shelves) and 3 parametric settings. And I find it worth it to use this EQ even if it means analogue to digital conversion. I wonder how it really works, because I have a feeling that using Ultima as an analogue source and adding KSE only as a EQ to the mix sounds much better than using an iPhone as a source and KSE as a DAC. Maybe someone will confirm if I'm not mistaken.

Let's get back to the point. Let's quickly compare KSE without EQ with 64 U18t which is somewhat of a reference.

With a few measurements we arrive with this kind of a "bassy reference" which may be considered better than U18t.

What if we want more of a totally neutral reference, without so much bass? Here we go.

So basically these are my two EQ settings constituting my two sound signatures for more fun or more reference!:

Compare both of them with U18t, which is brighter. Remember that Harman curve is brighter than ours, but not necessarily a good earphone must follow Harman to the point.

But who cares, we may also make a brighter version! This one is even more Harman-ish than U18t, however the resonance at 1.7 kHz should really move to 3 kHz. Nothing I can do about it but it's pretty good still.

That's all folks. I anyone needs my EQ settings just call my name or quote a fragment of this post (do not quote all the graphics please, as we receive these quotations in email).
Cheers!

Well, looking at Crin's and yours, we can say these peak a bit early and has a sucked out pits in the upper-mids to lower treble. I can predict these to have hollow tonality. These are no SR009

 

[BlueThunder]

Take my advice folks - don't cheap out on a portable source no matter the temptation. Get another pair of decent IEMs if you want to go ultra portable, maybe even BT headset. I went through 4 different low end DACs and DAPs and I got excited because they all sounded good, but as soon as I use a high end source like SP1000, WM1z, or Hugo 2, I am instantly reminded how the KSE scales.

I was considering the wm1z, but I want to be able to use Tidal offline with master quality (or close). In an ideal world i’d be Able to stream any source over bt to the DAP. Any suggestions on a DAP that fits these? If the wm1z does these then great..... Currently using the AGPTEK H3 as a stop gap, but I have to say it fits the size of the 1200 amp beautifully.

Incidentally i’m Getting hissnin the left channel when powering the KSE1200s. Any able to confirm whether or not this is normal?

 

[Piotr Michalak]

Well, looking at Crin's and yours, we can say these peak a bit early and has a sucked out pits in the upper-mids to lower treble. I can predict these to have hollow tonality. These are no SR009

Agreed. Still SR009 has its own set of problems

 

[Piotr Michalak]

I was considering the wm1z, but I want to be able to use Tidal offline with master quality (or close). In an ideal world i’d be Able to stream any source over bt to the DAP. Any suggestions on a DAP that fits these? If the wm1z does these then great..... Currently using the AGPTEK H3 as a stop gap, but I have to say it fits the size of the 1200 amp beautifully.
Incidentally i’m Getting hissnin the left channel when powering the KSE1200s. Any able to confirm whether or not this is normal?

WM1Z sounds great with KSE.
Ultima is only slightly better.
Hugo2 > Ultima > 1Z > AK380 > Lotoo Paw Gold. First three are highly recommended for KSE as reference class sources.
Ultima M fits KSE1500 perfectly and makes this a mobile sandwich.
Dunno about KSE1200. Probably better to use a 50-60 cm interconnect and put it in a separate pocket.
Consider WM1A for less weight and same Bluetooth connectivity as 1Z. Haven’t tested the sound unfortunately.

 

[nanaholic]

I was considering the wm1z, but I want to be able to use Tidal offline with master quality (or close). In an ideal world i’d be Able to stream any source over bt to the DAP. Any suggestions on a DAP that fits these? If the wm1z does these then great..... Currently using the AGPTEK H3 as a stop gap, but I have to say it fits the size of the 1200 amp beautifully.

Incidentally i’m Getting hissnin the left channel when powering the KSE1200s. Any able to confirm whether or not this is normal?

The WM1Z now has BT receiver mode and is able to handle connection in SBC, aac and LDAC, but you won't be able to use Tidal offline on it as it is not an Android based player.

If you want a stand alone device that can do Tidal offline, I guess the new AK players (SPK series, SE100 etc) which now supports direct install of APK via the Open App utility might be a better choice.

Further information of AK Open App:
https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/content/support/faq/view.asp?li=1000606

 

[bflat]

...Incidentally i’m Getting hissnin the left channel when powering the KSE1200s. Any able to confirm whether or not this is normal?

Assuming this is only when you have power connected to the KSE amp, it could be due to your power supply. You may want to consider a low noise linear power supply from one of many on eBay. If you hear the noise when using battery power, then that is not normal and I would contact your Shure support center.