[alphaphoenix]

Interesting thread.  Good luck.  Have you identified your target audience because I don't think an open/closed can will win over the "audiophiles".   From a technical point of view that I have limited knowledge of, there would be too much compromise to implement a dual headphone with your desired fashion, which is probably a good reason why none of the major names have not provided such a product in any quantity.  Also, you need to make sure you're not treading into patent infringement territory.   There's a reason why a Grado sounds like a Grado and a Sennheiser sounds like a Sennheiser...etc.

 

[Ishcabible]

The D2000 is a bit of an anomaly. All of my closed headphones sounded castrated when I took off the backs.

 

[Redcarmoose]

This is off subject but new to me the T1 is a semi-open headphone. I think they could be the best of both worlds. I will check them out.

 

[kingpage]

Quote:

Also, you need to make sure you're not treading into patent infringement territory.   There's a reason why a Grado sounds like a Grado and a Sennheiser sounds like a Sennheiser...etc.

Patent was the next thing I was coming back to ask about.
 
It is in my belief that since there are so many headphone designs that look so similar along with heaps of generic designs, I shouldn't not have a problem so long as my headphone is not exactly identical to any major branded products or it doesn't include any of their trademarks. Correct?
 
There are pros and cons with filing a patent application. I'm more worried about this headphone design being copied if proven popular. In the headphone market, isn't it common practice to conseal the trade secrets instead of using patents for protection? That's why headphone companies always keep their mouth shut when asked about anything beyond standard information. *There are indeed some US patents held by Senn or Audio-tech.
 
In any case, I should not give away defining characteristics in this thread from now on.  It's not like I can just get a patent for the hybrid earcup design in particular, is it? If that's possible, why didn't somone file one for open-backs or closed-backs a long time ago?
 
 
Quote:

Have you identified your target audience?

I'd like it to be quite broad. Audiophiles who appreciate both, gamers who use headphones for music, travel in addition to gaming (I can add in a detachable mic), and general consumers (when it is well-known enough to be put on selves in stores).
 
 
 

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

I've read that before. What are you talking about? They look amazing!

Yep, pretty easy to test out too in a reversible way. Take off the cups and rest the earpads on the frame of the headphones instead of locking them in (have to use your head to keep them on). Basically, the pads need airflow underneath. That's basically it. Don't like it? Just put them back together.
 
If sibilance and/or brightness is an issue, place foam from on-ear or clip-on headphone earpads directly in front of the Denon driver. I used the earpads from the KSC75 clip ons (trimmed down a bit). Worked great. You can also try taking some of the paper/felt off the back of the driver to help as well, though I recommend trying the foam first.
 
I don't suggest recabling, as it changes the sound too much. If you read my thread, you'll see my long process and (ugly) changes I had to make to compensate for the change in sound. I was doing mine for the sake of experimentation in combination with getting the sound I was looking for, while I personally don't suggest people follow everything I did.
 
They don't extend as deep as stock. They start dropping off around 40Hz, but that's fine for the vast majority of music. Most 8" subs can't do much below 40Hz either, and you'd find it hard to call the open Denons lacking in bass. The bass is considerably tighter than stock, but it still has a lot of punch. Mids are brought out more, as is the treble in some ways (hence my foam and driver paper/felt removal suggestions to tame it). Very detailed sound, nice separation and presentation overall. Great soundstage, too, though my personal mod has suffered in that area due to what all I've had to do.
 
Worth a shot at trying for anyone with a D2000/5000/7000. They can make very formidable open-backed headphones and are quite tweakable after the two main parts of the mod (cup removal or holes drilled in cups and earpads lifted off the frame to allow airflow underneath).
 
 
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Oh, boy.

First, pick up something like Dickason's "Loudspeaker Cookbook" and look at the difference between open baffle and closed box speakers. Not quite the same as headphones, but there are similar considerations. My guess is that you will have an extremely difficult time developing a driver that sounds good in each configuration. Getting one to sound the same each way could prove impossible without loads of compromises.

Also, I think you significantly underestimate what it takes to run a business.

For starters, the patent issue is huge. Whether or not you're in the clear doesn't matter. If a manufacturer decides to sue, the low end of patent litigation is about $300k. Typically, you'll be looking more at $500k-$1M to see a case through. I know. I've spent close to ten years in corporate litigation, including patent work. Further, expect a case to take three to four years to come to trial. Then, even if you win, you won't get attorney's fees back. You can win and be bankrupt. You might want to look at the Monster v. Fanny Wang litigation for an idea of what is possible.

Then there's the matter of simply running a business. My father and I run one and we have three employees. It isn't easy or cheap, and we have free professional services - I'm a lawyer and an accountant. Even then, there are a lot of expenses, overhead and paperwork. Unless you know how to deal with that, you'll spend a lot of money. We don't pay for marketing, distribution, or any of that stuff, either, but you'd need it. Keep in mind that you'll have minimum orders, subcontractors can be a pain, there are taxes, and much else. A corporate tax return is not something an amateur can produce. No, you cannot Google a DIY for that, either. You have to know how it works and be able to research. Unless you've worked in the field or have gone to school, you will not be able to figure it out for yourself. It really is that complicated.

Have you considered the demand for such a product? My initial reaction is that it is a gimmick. I buy products that are for a single use only. Any time I see something that is a "two-in-one" I am deeply skeptical. Regardless of the product, you usually get a compromised version of each. It reminds me of the old Amphicar, which is a boat and a car. A curiosity, for sure, but it is both a lousy car and a lousy boat. Fun to read about, but I would never buy one. I'd rather keep my car and buy a real boat.

Also keep in mind how fickle the audio market is. If you get a bad review from a prominent reviewer or consensus turns against you, you're screwed. This isn't much different from the fashion market. Estsblished brands lay eggs, too. Don't think everything will be wine and roses if you can bring something to market.

If you really want to manufacture, you will need deep pockets and professional help. If you don't have formal training in engineering, law and accounting, you'll have go hire that. $30k is nothing. You would need $1M-$2M and a few years to crack the market. If you want that from a VC, they will want upwards of 50%. Probably more. And unless you can demonstrate a real market for the product, they'll pass on you.

Sorry to be so negative. But business is expensive and has loads of pitfalls. I've seen them. If you want to make some money in audio, get a soldering iron and learn how to build amps. You can pull down $30-$40 an hour for custom builds. Not so bad and you can start learning the ropes of what you need for a business.

 

[alphaphoenix]

^Free advice OP.  Take it and heed it well.

 

[Ra97oR]

Thank you Uncle Erik for taking time to type out what I exactly thought about this.

You have overestimated your target audience being as big as you think and underestimated the sheer complexity and capital invoked to create such a product. While it may be a cool idea, but it just not a practical or profitable idea.

 

[kingpage]

I understand perfectly well how difficulty it is. With that being said, I also understand perfectly well that every single person who has tried to convert an idea into a business reality faced major roadblocks and negativity. I can't think of one who told others about his or her plan and people said "you are going to make a lot of money from that". Yes, very few break even. Even fewer can earn a comfortable living.
 
The sort of target audience I can do at first is just a few head-fiers. Small scale stuff. I wanted to generate some interests to see if I can get people inside the business help roll this idea out. Everybody starts somewhere. Still, I do feel the discouragement is very timely. I do appreciate criticisms. It may very well be a waste of time.
 
I guess I put this on the back burner for now. I can't do it alone. Most good businesses start with at least two people.

 

[liamstrain]

Quote:

Most good businesses start with at least a *really good idea that responds to a need in the target market*.

Fixed it for you.