[Ra97oR]

While I haven't done any research on how will this kind of product will sell. It will not be much cheaper for the manufacturer to make as you need design a system that is robust enough to withstand the abuse of general consumer, yet not too bulky to kill your neck (LCD2 cough).

For such a system, I can only foreseen a headphone with removable earcups and only retrain the headband while swapping. That way the parts will be big and strong enough and hard to lose. A headphone driver bare is extremely fragile and easy to lose. Any kind of clip on closed back cover will need to be secured, while for a circular headphone, a screw-on system can be used.

From an engineer's point of view, the product is just making the job harder without saving any cost. And in fact increasing it by a fair bit. Unless one is prepare to pay the same price as two headphones.

For a consumer product, lots of loose spare parts is a big NO. People will start losing drivers in no time if one is to swap from closed/open often enough. And even then, switch a complete closed back headphone to an open back headphone will be far less time consuming and you are not likely to lose a whole headphone rather than a drivers size of a large coin.

IMO, this idea only works for the novelty factor and not practical for both the consumer and the manufacturer.

 

[kingpage]

Do you mean detachable earcups? That would be more expensive than just removing the back of the cups.
 
A screw-on system was exactly as I envisioned. I just didn't know the best way to put it. Thanks.
 
Audiophiles have tons of headphons for different uses, and bulky set-ups, and confusing cables, so I don't know how a hybrid headphone would be a hassle to them. Of course, the objective is to make it as user-friendly as possible; as though they had two headphones, minus the cost.
 
Quote:

IMO, this idea only works for the novelty factor and not practical for both the consumer and the manufacturer.

Not if when the product is well-designed and fully specified, the manufacturing technology is good enough to make anything possible. With 3D printers becoming more widely avaible in the next few years, I may even be able to make the headphones at home with imported drivers. (Just as a starting point)
 
As for consumers, advertising and word of mouth will be critical in letting them know the benefits/convenience/sound quality and how easy it is to make the transition (like unplugging a headphone from an iPod and plugging it to a computer).
 

 

[Ra97oR]

Try just covering the back of an open back headphone and listen, you will see why I am thinking of detachable ear cups.

Most closed back headphones if not all are simply designed ground up to be closed back. Using just the right amount of damping and driver design to sound right in a totally different environment than a open back. Moreover, even if you have totally sorted a driver that sounds great in open and closed design, the headphones itself will be wider than one that is not a hybrid design. No matter what you have to put a grill in to protect the driver while being open back and for closed back you have to put the case on top of the grill, with the attachment mechanism, it will be wider than a standard closed back for sure.

It still haven't fixed the issues with spare parts too. The headphone case will be lost no matter what, unless you can somehow fit a closed back cover that stay on the phone all the time (more additional bulk and the possibility of looking totally stupid).

I can't see this product able to attract enough attention to be profitable after a massive R&D spending. Normal consumer won't care about open back and head-fiers will just have two headphones for the same thing.

Not trying to shoot you down, just saying what I think.

 

[kingpage]

Could you think of headphones that share the same drivers, but one is open and the other is closed?
 
I agree securing the drivers without contaminating the sound or making it heavier will be a serious issue. A grille would be good, not sure if it will affect the sound/headstage much. It works in microphones, but microphones don't have the problem of reverberations, etc, in a cup.

 

[Ra97oR]

A grill is to protect the driver not to tune the sound. If you stuff the grill with lots of dampening material to make it sound similar to when it is closed. You are just making a closed phone with a grill for looks.

In a microphone, the material in it is to stop pops and wind noise at the minimal level. Not to do with sound tuning for the most part.

 

[kingpage]

The open version can be default or fixed like the above photo, but only if the grille is transparent enough sitting inside the closed lids.

Did you say the grille on a microphone is to stop pops or wind noises? Only pop filters or windscreens are used to do that, while gilles are to protect the element.
 
On a side note, why do you think a hybrid headphone like this can't/won't be mainstream? It'd be successfull if it were good enough to attract both audiophiles and gamers and some everyday consumers who want nice cans, like AD700 and HD650.

 

[Ra97oR]

I did say at the minimal level. I am referring to dampening material and foam inside the grill btw. A grill without dampening material is transparent enough to have no impact on the sound.

Well, I am still not seeing anything that makes much sense doing such a hybrid headphones. Far too gimmicky even if it worked, what is wrong with two headphones really. A home use headphone does not even needed to be open back, they are far bigger and more comfortable due to the size. For your idea, you are totally ignoring the big size difference, where is the most distinctive line between portable, and strictly home use headphones. I have had a closed back home headphone, it sounds as open as any open headphone and is extremely detailed. It doesn't need to be open as it already have a mind blowing sound stage but portable? Hell no. (look A2000X)


Lets generalize the headphones:

Home headphones:
Can be open OR closed
Very large size for comfort
Less clamping force as it is not design to be used while walking around

Portable headphones:
Mostly closed for isolation
Smaller size
Higher clamping force accounting for head movements

 

[kingpage]

I know "A grill without dampening material is transparent enough to have no impact on the sound", but what I meant was whether a grille in a closed cup will affect the reverberations or soundstage in any noiticeable, negative way.
 
Well, portability is one reason. Isolation and leakage are important when it comes to office or outdoor use. Differences in tastes is another; some people like a headphone a lot, but is put off by the fact that it is closed or it is open. This is not uncommon. If you are traveling somewhere (local or overseas), you may want compactness and just bring one headphone. If it is just putting the closed lids back onto the open grilles, then we don't even have the problem of having to worry about where to store the extra lids.
 
It will be a headphone you can use wherever you are, regardless of however you want it.
 
Just to make the point, if A2000X was designed in such a way that it sounds the same when closed, but has the option to remove the backs resulting in more airy and accurate (larger) soudstage, more akin to speakers, other things being equal, would you prefer it over the original?

 

[Ra97oR]

I seriously don't see the whole point of it being able to be open.

Is there anything wrong with a closed back phone used at home? Hell, I use my DT150 regularly at home as much as outside. There is a massive list of closed back headphones that have great sound quailty, a closed back headphone does not mean that it will have worse sound quailty.

You can't transform a small portable headphone to be big and comfort with low clamping pressure, vice versa, other than the earcup swap idea I suggested, but it as good as buying two headphones anyway.

 

[Redcarmoose]

There are a group here at Head=Fi which have taken the Denon AH-D7000s and AH-D2000s apart removed the wood cups and made holes in them, making them semi-open. At one point some have also made space in front of the driver in addition. The people who didn't put the air space in front of the driver can purchase a second set of cups and replace them when wanted to obtain what you have dreamed up here. It is maybe a little too hard of an action though to do all the time. It seems some members like the semi-open sound. If they had a quick cup replacement process it would work it seems.
 
 
You have two groups, folks who like open and folks who like closed headphones. I feel open headphones do reproduce certain types of music good, with closed headphones being better for other types. There is also many other modifications you can do upstream to almost make closed headphones sound more like open headphones. Really a mixture has always seemed to be the best of both worlds. The slam of closed backs with the soundstage of open headphones. There seems to still be a gap between what each type does and really no middle ground in my experience. Open headphones have a distinct sound and closed headphones have a distinct sound. I may have seen one or two semi open headphones at shows and I actually remember  them having traits of both, but for what ever reason this semi-open style does not seem that common. 

 

[Ra97oR]

A2000X have one of the best soundstage I have heard while being closed and the LCD2 having the worse sense of space while being open. So there is always exceptions. To be honest, most top end closed back does have a good soundstage and sense of space, A2000X. W5000, DX1000, T5p and even the small Edition 8.

 

[kingpage]

 
Quote:

 
You have two groups, folks who like open and folks who like closed headphones.

 
You fogot the third group of people, who like both open and closed. They want open for home and closed for office and on the go. For an additional feature, I still think the folks who prefer closed headphones in all circumstance will like/love (at least not hate) it. I doubt there are such kind of people anyway. Most people are restricted in this, usually a compromise in sound or otherwise, so they are forced to have it either open or closed to meet their needs (not all their wants). However, like what Tony Stark said, is it too much to ask for both?
 
 
Quote:

A2000X have one of the best soundstage I have heard while being closed and the LCD2 having the worse sense of space while being open. So there is always exceptions. To be honest, most top end closed back does have a good soundstage and sense of space, A2000X. W5000, DX1000, T5p and even the small Edition 8.

 
I would say to you, my friend, you haven't heard the hypothetical open counterparts of those phones you mentioned (A2000X. W5000, DX1000, T5p and Edition 8). Oh boy, I'm already defending my imaginary headphone lines. LOL. Did I sound too much like a saleman promoting his headphones? If I did, I'm heading in the right direction.
 

 

[Clockmaker]

While I'd love to see something like this exist and still have good sound quality, the only way i see this happening is via some sort of electronic and physical adjustment effort combined. Something along the lines of a switch on the housing to switch the driver tuning between open and closed, and the physical change of the caps or dampening or whatever you're using to make them physically closed.
Think of the MEE SP51. They're IEM's with changeable backings to influence how it sounds. What if we were to take that idea, incorporate it into full sized headphones, and allow for some way to notify the driver that it should be playing sound as a open/closed phone via switch?

 

[Redcarmoose]

 
Quote:

A2000X have one of the best soundstage I have heard while being closed and the LCD2 having the worse sense of space while being open. So there is always exceptions. To be honest, most top end closed back does have a good soundstage and sense of space, A2000X. W5000, DX1000, T5p and even the small Edition 8.

Good point, there may be these differences. I'm mostly doing a comparison with my k701s to Denon AH-D7000s. The k701s having more soundstage and sense of space. The Denons being close though for closed back headphones. That may be why I like the Denons as they have soundstage and slam together. Still though I feel all open back headphones have a very distinct sound. Every open back headphones I have ever tried has had that sound. IMO. 
 
A changeable headphone would let people take off the backs and get that sound then put the backs back on for a different sound. It really would not have to be great at any one thing but have a middle ground and I think it would sell just due to flexibility. Then again, I would not but it as I do OK with one open back and one closed back design.  

 

[kingpage]

 
Quote:

While I'd love to see something like this exist and still have good sound quality, the only way i see this happening is via some sort of electronic and physical adjustment effort combined. Something along the lines of a switch on the housing to switch the driver tuning between open and closed, and the physical change of the caps or dampening or whatever you're using to make them physically closed.
Think of the MEE SP51. They're IEM's with changeable backings to influence how it sounds. What if we were to take that idea, incorporate it into full sized headphones, and allow for some way to notify the driver that it should be playing sound as a open/closed phone via switch?

 
Wow, I didn't realise something similar is around in the IEM world. I left it for more than a year now. It is very recent too. It will still be much harder to implement it in full-sized headphones, due to many factors. Not to sound pessimistic or anything; but realistic. Can you comment on the efficacy of that product (SP51)?
 

 
Quote:

Then again, I would not but it as I do OK with one open back and one closed back design.  

Don't be so sure. You may sell them for this.
 
I'm thinking of neutrality for the closed back and fun for the open back, like FA-003 and FA-011. In fact, that's how I came to this. I was struggling so much to decide which to buy, FA-011 or FA-006/3, because of the sound signature, pads, the price, and the cup design. Ideally, I'd buy both. But I'm a student, and there are minor things that would bug me even if I bought both.