[utep10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salt Peanuts /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for Bonds getting into the Hall, don't be so sure of that. 75% is a large chunk of votes and he hasn't exactly been all that chummy with the voters, aka baseball reporters.

As a diehard Giants fan, let it be known that Bonds is one of my least favorite Giants but I think we need some perspective here. Bonds is a sure fire HOFer, before all the HRs, whether we like it or him, or not.

Sorry to derail the "Charlie Hustle" Thread.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ampersand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Plenty of players have been inducted who didn't exactly exemplify integrity or good character. IMO, Rose deserves to be inducted, especially when they are forced to induct Bonds for breaking the homerun record. Even more so, considering Rose's stats and 'still-intact' hitting record were unassisted by performance enhancers.

X2

 

[utep10]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif He was the best complete player of his era. All gambling on his team was to win. What's wrong with that?

The argument I've heard against this is that Rose probably managed the games he bet on, differently then the games that he did not bet on. Meaning, he may have managed all out to win the games he bet on, but left little (bullpen,etc.) for the other games. Maybe not the best thing to have influencing your decisions.

I don't know if I buy this argument though.

 

[beerguy0]

Not in a million years. I seriously doubt the veterans would ever vote him into the HOF, if he were reinstated.

As distasteful as it may be to watch Barry Bonds overtake Henry Aaron, knowing with virtual certainty that he used everything under the sun to enable himself to do so, he broke no rules of MLB.

 

[Wmcmanus]

No! You reap what you sow.

Rose knew what he was doing was against baseball's rules, and whether he was diseased with a gambling addiction or not, he shouldn't have done it. All actions have consequences; it's just the nature of the game of life.

For the sake of his amazing non-performance-enhanced records as a player, and for the sake of baseball fans everywhere, it may be appropriate to induct him into the Hall of Fame sometime after he dies, but I don't think he deserves this satisfaction while he's still alive. Just my opinion, so it can't really be right or wrong.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamCalifornia /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've read recently: 'evereybody should have a second chance' and 'America forgave Richard Nixon, so why not to forgive Pete Rose'? .... and so on .... and so on...

At first I was going to say no....since it was so long ago that Rose fell out of the limelight and has not made amends, then why should he be reinstated? Then I read this particular comment. To my understanding, Nixon might have been forgiven to an extent....but he wasn't reinstated as president. Many feel that Ford lost his election because he divided the nation by pardoning Nixon.

So after thinking about that.....my opinion hasn't changed. America does like its heros....and if someone has fallen, America is not quick to forgive. Politicians hardly ever seem remorseful about their actions until they're indicted. Sports figures seem the same way. Just look at the doping scandals....no one will admit to it unless there is hard proof against them.

 

[Ice Max]

One word: No

 

[Darkestred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif X 2 - if Bonds can roid himself into the record books, sure. At least Pete didn't cheat

I dont really see the big deal. Are the roids helping him actually hit the ball? bonds has always been a good hitter. How much farther would the roids make him hit the ball? In any case, Arod will beat bond's record.

If Rose didnt lose games on purpose with his betting, than who the hell cares. It's his playing that should be questioned not his gambling. That's like saying, joe shmo has 4,900 hits, 1600 stolen bases, 3000 rbi's/runs and 809 hr, but becuase he gambled on baseball he is not going to be in the hall of fame. As long as he knew what he as doing and didnt harm anyone just let him in and back into baseball.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkestred /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dont really see the big deal. Are the roids helping him actually hit the ball? bonds has always been a good hitter. How much farther would the roids make him hit the ball? In any case, Arod will beat bond's record.

Just far enough to get over the fense...

I hope you're right about Arod.

 

[Salt Peanuts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkestred /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much farther would the roids make him hit the ball? In any case, Arod will beat bond's record.

It helps with hand-eye coordination as well, IIRC.

 

[floydenheimer]

Roids will help with bat speed, which will turn some towering foul balls into towering homers, or some of those fastballs that you're tardy on will then get turned around. It will also turn some of those doubles into bombs.

As for Rose, I think a lot of America is ok with him being reinstated and elected into the HOF. The problem is that it's not America's choice, it's the MLB that gets to decide.

Personally, I think he should be in the Hall of Fame, just document the good and the bad. Also, don't let him get back into managing or anything similar, Hall only. The guy only has the most career hits ever. And that whole character issue... the guy with the 2nd most career hits, Ty Cobb, was a well documented racist. I'm not really seeing why gambling on your team to win is so horrible anyway, I would say no if he had bet against his teams though. Let him in, put him in the hall, and that's that. I think the MLB just like the drama and pub.

 

[b1gben83]

racism and betting, while both character flaws, are completely different issues in regards to sports. being a racist doesn't directly affect what happens on the field. placing a bet for or against your team when you are the manager of that team completely perverts the game. You are more likely to completely exhaust your entire bullpen, leave a struggling pitcher on the mound, or otherwise make bad managerial moves to win a bet.

so in light of the question, i would not let pete rose back into baseball. I believe that the effects of betting are far more detrimental to to baseball than that of steroid use.

 

[floydenheimer]

Racism can easily effect a game, not all teammates are the same ethnicity. What if you have a white player tipping off the other team because he doesn't like the pitcher because he's black? How about spiking a player sliding into a base? Intentionally doming someone? Maybe a manager might not play a guy because he has the wrong color skin. Racism can be just as bad or worse.

I'm pretty sure Rose played to win because he wanted to win the game more than he wanted to win the bet. You can get a sense of this by the way he played the game, he played to win every day, it wasn't about money for him.
I think athletes bet on their games more than most people think, just not so it's documented. Jordan has/had a gambling problem, I'm thinking he might have had some wagers on his games, possibly with other players.

I'm not saying one is worse than the other, I'm just pointing out that other people have had character issues and are in the hall. If they can forgive a racist, what makes gambling so unforgivable?

 

[wafflesomd]

Who cares, baseball sucks so much now.

I'd rather go watch a little league game than a major league game.

There's more effort and spirit in those little 7 year olds than any major league'r.

 

[Ampersand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b1gben83 /img/forum/go_quote.gif racism and betting, while both character flaws, are completely different issues in regards to sports. being a racist doesn't directly affect what happens on the field. placing a bet for or against your team when you are the manager of that team completely perverts the game.

AFAIK, Rose never bet against the Reds. As a Mets fan, watching my team lose the last 11 out of 14 games, I almost wish the players would bet 'to win'. Then maybe they'd show some heart and FEAKING WIN A GAME!!!!!