Sennheiser x Massdrop HD6XX Review / Preview - Head-Fi TV
Dec 29, 2016 at 2:03 PM Post #2,611 of 4,141
  So far I am absolutely loving my HD6XX.
 
I only really have my K712's to compare them too, ...........

Have some AKG K7XX coming shortly, had the 712s but as I had the HD700s and HD600s the bases were more or less covered…those were then sold after getting the 800S’s .
Now coming full circle, the 800S’s will remain as my reference, the HD6XX’s to chill and the K7XX for mostly movies.
 
The HD6XX were worth the price of admission though and as I noted elsewhere the 650/6XX are like listening in a well-damped cozy studio, all the details are there…throwing on the 800S’s is like walking into a live venue/recording space, everything just opens up….the K712s sat somewhere in the middle…I’m assuming the K7XX will be similar....but they all have their merits
smile.gif

 
Dec 29, 2016 at 3:52 PM Post #2,612 of 4,141
I've got a Silver Dragon V3 I'll be parting with soon, it is definitely better than the blue.

 
At the price you quoted me, it is a steal. But you need to have a XLR balanced output to use it (which I think is the best output format for listening to the HD6xxx).
 
   
Thanks for the detailed write up.  That's very similar to what I thought comparing the Cardas cable and the stock.  In the overall scheme of things (i.e. compared to switching out headphones), it's relatively subtle and I can understand why some may not hear a difference and/or don't want to spend the money.  But it makes a difference for me too and this is a hobby so I play. 

It's funny, I also though my HD650 sounded more dynamic because there was a noticeable volume difference.  For me, it probably is the pads since the (original) ones on my six year old HD650 are flaccid and the ones on my HD6XX are firm.  I actually like the sound of my HD6XX better than my HD650 once I adjusted for volume.

 
My kid liked the "fresh" HD6xxx better than the HD650 - he thought it was more crisp on the top end. But he agreed it was rather flat in comparison.
 
Agree on the diminishing merits of upgrading cable at a certain point. I also have a Cardas Clear cable for my LCD3's, and while it was a "clear" improvement over the stock Audeze cable, the difference was not as dramatic as the upgrade from Sennheiser stock cable.
 
However, purchased smartly, a basic cable upgrade can really elevate the performance of the HD6xxx.
 
On the unrelated  topic of power - while the HD650 doesn't need a ton of power to work well, using a significantly more powerful amp seems to really changes the character of this headphone. I remember when I switched from a portable amp to the Woo WA22 and later to the WA5 , the difference on the HD650 was pretty massive - more so than on the LCD3. Looking at the power output on both amps (see http://www.wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf​), you can identify what is happening with the more powerful amps. 
 
You wouldn't initially guess that from the Hd650's good specs - 300 ohms and 103db sensitivity, which means that it can play reasonably loud without needing tons of power. But as this article (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html) describes, many tracks played at higher volumes push the HD650 to demand significantly higher voltage, in some cases way beyond what portable devices can deliver.Most users here, however, are likely to pair this headphone with a much lower powered amp, probably even something battery powered.  It will still sound generally good, but the lower power amps on these devices aren't really capable of demonstrating the full potential of the HD650.
 
Higher powered desktop amps like the WA22 can push 1100mW at the HD6xxx's impedance, but the brutally powerful WA5 is capable of delivering 6000mWs into the HD650! By comparison, a popular entry level amp, the Schiit Vali 2, can push just 270mW max power at 300 ohms - more than plenty to power the HD but nowhere near what the more powerful Woo delivers. It's not until you get into Schiit's top end Ragnarok​ that you see similar power levels (1.7mW).
 
For my ears, the additional power translates into better driver control and significantly better dynamics with much lower distortion, especially at higher volumes. On a higher powered amp, the HD650 changes from a really good sounding, if polite, headphone, into something way more dynamic. Bass has much more energy and impact, and that famous dark veil seems to disappear, so much so that I wonder if the real issue with the HD650 is about the user's amp choice, not the inherent limitations of the HD650.
 
If you are looking seriously at options to improve the HD6xxx's dynamics and performance, you should first spend your money on a more powerful amp whose output specs are better matched for the HD650's higher impedance and lower . Until you do so, cable upgrades will deliver improvement but you won't be able to hear as much difference as when the HD6xxx is powered appropriately.
 
Dec 29, 2016 at 10:44 PM Post #2,613 of 4,141
   
At the price you quoted me, it is a steal. But you need to have a XLR balanced output to use it (which I think is the best output format for listening to the HD6xxx).
 
 
My kid liked the "fresh" HD6xxx better than the HD650 - he thought it was more crisp on the top end. But he agreed it was rather flat in comparison.
 
Agree on the diminishing merits of upgrading cable at a certain point. I also have a Cardas Clear cable for my LCD3's, and while it was a "clear" improvement over the stock Audeze cable, the difference was not as dramatic as the upgrade from Sennheiser stock cable.
 
However, purchased smartly, a basic cable upgrade can really elevate the performance of the HD6xxx.
 
On the unrelated  topic of power - while the HD650 doesn't need a ton of power to work well, using a significantly more powerful amp seems to really changes the character of this headphone. I remember when I switched from a portable amp to the Woo WA22 and later to the WA5 , the difference on the HD650 was pretty massive - more so than on the LCD3. Looking at the power output on both amps (see http://www.wooaudio.com/docs/wooaudio_amplifier_comparisons.pdf​), you can identify what is happening with the more powerful amps. 
 
You wouldn't initially guess that from the Hd650's good specs - 300 ohms and 103db sensitivity, which means that it can play reasonably loud without needing tons of power. But as this article (http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html) describes, many tracks played at higher volumes push the HD650 to demand significantly higher voltage, in some cases way beyond what portable devices can deliver.Most users here, however, are likely to pair this headphone with a much lower powered amp, probably even something battery powered.  It will still sound generally good, but the lower power amps on these devices aren't really capable of demonstrating the full potential of the HD650.
 
Higher powered desktop amps like the WA22 can push 1100mW at the HD6xxx's impedance, but the brutally powerful WA5 is capable of delivering 6000mWs into the HD650! By comparison, a popular entry level amp, the Schiit Vali 2, can push just 270mW max power at 300 ohms - more than plenty to power the HD but nowhere near what the more powerful Woo delivers. It's not until you get into Schiit's top end Ragnarok​ that you see similar power levels (1.7mW).
 
For my ears, the additional power translates into better driver control and significantly better dynamics with much lower distortion, especially at higher volumes. On a higher powered amp, the HD650 changes from a really good sounding, if polite, headphone, into something way more dynamic. Bass has much more energy and impact, and that famous dark veil seems to disappear, so much so that I wonder if the real issue with the HD650 is about the user's amp choice, not the inherent limitations of the HD650.
 
If you are looking seriously at options to improve the HD6xxx's dynamics and performance, you should first spend your money on a more powerful amp whose output specs are better matched for the HD650's higher impedance and lower . Until you do so, cable upgrades will deliver improvement but you won't be able to hear as much difference as when the HD6xxx is powered appropriately.


What would you consider to be the most affordable amp that will lift the veil? Through the Objective 2 amp I have (which I heard was very powerful if not sonically interesting) the HD6XX sounds unbelievably veiled compared even with my DT1350s straight from my laptop (2016 touchbar MacBook Pro). I have a very good DAC, too.
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 12:34 AM Post #2,614 of 4,141
 
What would you consider to be the most affordable amp that will lift the veil? Through the Objective 2 amp I have (which I heard was very powerful if not sonically interesting) the HD6XX sounds unbelievably veiled compared even with my DT1350s straight from my laptop (2016 touchbar MacBook Pro). I have a very good DAC, too.


 I am not the right guy to go to for affordable amp advice. The WA22 sells used for about 1400-1500 and would be a wonderful amp, plus with balanced sources it excels. Below that, I only owned the SR71a portable amp which is good but not great with HD650, and the Woo 6SE which was also really good but not great with HD650. My hunch is that the HD650 loves tubes, particularly with high power. 
 
I'd look hard at amps that push over 1 mw into 300ohms, and i'd buy used to extend the value of my dollar.
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 1:09 AM Post #2,615 of 4,141
like everyone else says, the jot is a great match for the 650/6xx.  i can tell the reason they scale up is because they sound better with more power.  as in, a ton of power.  specs can be misleading.  an iphone will drive them but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near what they're capable of. 
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 1:26 AM Post #2,616 of 4,141
  like everyone else says, the jot is a great match for the 650/6xx.  i can tell the reason they scale up is because they sound better with more power.  as in, a ton of power.  specs can be misleading.  an iphone will drive them but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near what they're capable of. 


Interesting... yeah, the HD6XX seems to have a huge veil and no treble but despite it all there's a slam and presence that's quite nice. I like how my bad recording sound good. I just wish the treble weren't unlistenable recessed. My favorite headphones I remember trying were the Stax Lambdas (Normal Bias) but they lack bass heft. 
 
Would the Little Dot be good? 
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 4:05 AM Post #2,619 of 4,141
I have already received my HD6XX but I have not listened with it yet ^^;

 

 
Dec 30, 2016 at 10:17 AM Post #2,621 of 4,141
 
What would you consider to be the most affordable amp that will lift the veil? Through the Objective 2 amp I have (which I heard was very powerful if not sonically interesting) the HD6XX sounds unbelievably veiled compared even with my DT1350s straight from my laptop (2016 touchbar MacBook Pro). I have a very good DAC, too.


The O2 matches up fine with the HD6XX - remember that nwavguy actually used an HD650 when building and designing the O2. Other amps might add some color (or distortion) to the sound which might make them sound different (some will argue better, some worse), but the O2 has plenty of power to drive them (as neutral as possible).
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 10:58 AM Post #2,622 of 4,141
 
The O2 matches up fine with the HD6XX - remember that nwavguy actually used an HD650 when building and designing the O2. Other amps might add some color (or distortion) to the sound which might make them sound different (some will argue better, some worse), but the O2 has plenty of power to drive them (as neutral as possible).


He said that it sounds unbelievably veiled with the 02 ...
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 11:51 AM Post #2,623 of 4,141
I know of a few people who downgraded systems during a cash crunch and use a Vali 2 with the 650. I tried that myself and find it is a nice relaxed euphoric presenation with a Bimby as the source. The 650 shouldn't sound veiled with Schiit amps; if it does, you may benefit from modding it, or something odd may be going on with your DAC. I've only heard negative commentary about the O2, but YMMV.

You may also be used to high-treble headphones like a Grado or AKG. If that's the case, your ears and brain need time to adjust to the very smooth top end presentation the 650 offers. I personally love it, but it may be jarring if you're used to those bright headphones that artificially bring instruments forward by dropping the lower third of the frequency response. Most headphones in "mid-fi" territory have skewed frequency responses of some sort, and if that's all you've heard, your brain interprets that as correct.
 
Dec 30, 2016 at 1:41 PM Post #2,625 of 4,141
  Have some AKG K7XX coming shortly, had the 712s but as I had the HD700s and HD600s the bases were more or less covered…those were then sold after getting the 800S’s .
Now coming full circle, the 800S’s will remain as my reference, the HD6XX’s to chill and the K7XX for mostly movies.
 
The HD6XX were worth the price of admission though and as I noted elsewhere the 650/6XX are like listening in a well-damped cozy studio, all the details are there…throwing on the 800S’s is like walking into a live venue/recording space, everything just opens up….the K712s sat somewhere in the middle…I’m assuming the K7XX will be similar....but they all have their merits
smile.gif

 
Love the analogy of it sounding like your in a well dampened studio.That pretty much nails it on the head.
 

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