[sennsay]

I've had my HD6XX about three weeks now and my feelings on them are generally mixed, but overall not totally satisfying, not even with the superb Mimby/Magni 3 combo and the excellent QP1R source. There's absolutely no lack of power here, but as I wrote elsewhere in another thread recently, maybe the old standbys of Little Dot MkIII/MkIVSE and their ilk are more harmonious? There are a number of issues I personally have with them that relegate them to only occasional listening, despite the fact that they are nicely detailed, have generally good focus of images and are not harsh or generally unbalanced. I am always aware of wearing them, still a bit tight from new. They appear to have a flattened W sound pattern, where they are more focused in the middle and left/right edges, at least with most rock music. I say this while knowing that all of my other headphones bar one tend to do this to one degree or another. I'm aware that I'm on the studio side of the window looking in and listening to the recorded feed. Many folks like this. It often means that subtle details can be more easily observed and not everyone likes to be in the front row, preferring a few rows back .... or more. Good for classical music and indeed it's with this genre that I prefer the HD6XX on the occasions I listen to it. They have more upper 'air' than my absolute fave headphones, which I'll get to in a minute.
Let's use Lorde's Pure Heroine as an example for general rock/pop music. Her vocals are often multitracked and the voices to the sides of the central main vocal should be as solid, detailed, alive and fleshily real as the main vocals. There should be NO difference is solidity. The HD6XX thin the side vocals, which means that the overall soundfield is weakened and the impact of the whole is lessened. The HE400S also do that but appear more balanced, as the overall focal density is less solid. The very deep and almost teeth rattling electronic bass on the Lorde album is reduced significantly with the HD6XX, not so much weak, but has much less presence than the upgraded HD540 Reference headphones, which are my no1 goto headphones for almost all listening, partly for this very reason. Presence! On the brilliant 'The Who-Live In Leeds' the HD6XX reduce the feel, the presence, the sheer organic aliveness of John Entwhistle's fabulous bass guitar, this despite showing a little more string detail and the fact that the treble is turned up on his guitar, something he often did. This is not just with the stock cable, it's also with the excellent Mogami cable, which fills out the soundfield more so than the stock version (which actually works quite well with the Ref1s too).
It's quite possible that the HD6XX respond to being balanced and/or used with a good tube amp to sound at their best. They are good with the Schiit stack, but not a patch on the Ref1s, which have such an alive living presence that many cans fail to match. Some sound more like better hifi in small degrees, but certainly not like live musicians. This isn't as big a criticism as it looks, as it is a certainty that the HD6XX portray greater instrument detail and sometime vocal detail than the Ref1s, but that doesn't mean it sounds more like living musicians are playing for you and me. There are aspects of the Alt-J Live At Red Rocks that are better with the HD6XX, some instrument details and ambient air are effortlessly there and I appreciate listening in a little deeper, it doesn't take me back to the live show I was present at in December though. The Ref1s do. Swings and roundabouts, part of the fun of this great hobby
It's that difference between standing in the recording studio behind the mixing board (HD6XX/HE400S), or standing amongst the musicians IN the music, with the more diffuse, yet all-encompassing soundfield that the Ref1s create, where the headphones themselves and the bones of my skull disappear and I'm immersed in the music. Too close for some folks, I know, and very occasionally I will step back a tad and pop on the HD6XX or HifiMAN HE400S, yet there's always something missing and so often I just go back to the Ref1s and sigh in relief as I move back to a live concert instead of a recording of one. It just simply may be that the HD6XX are good with the Schiit stack and brilliant with another amp and in that instance all hail to them. Mind you, when I owned a pair of HD650s at the same time as my stock HD540 Refs seven or eight years ago, as much as I liked the HD650s back then, that sense of living joie de vivre that the Ref1s have in spades was missed. The upgraded Ref1s reign supreme at 29 years old and I'm not sure what I'll do with the HD6XX yet. Better pads could be a start. Dekoni, maybe.
Good on everyone who loves them, as they are most certainly an upgrade on so many other cans out there.

 

[Tuneslover]

I've had my HD6XX about three weeks now and my feelings on them are generally mixed, but overall not totally satisfying, not even with the superb Mimby/Magni 3 combo and the excellent QP1R source. There's absolutely no lack of power here, but as I wrote elsewhere in another thread recently, maybe the old standbys of Little Dot MkIII/MkIVSE and their ilk are more harmonious? There are a number of issues I personally have with them that relegate them to only occasional listening, despite the fact that they are nicely detailed, have generally good focus of images and are not harsh or generally unbalanced. I am always aware of wearing them, still a bit tight from new. They appear to have a flattened W sound pattern, where they are more focused in the middle and left/right edges, at least with most rock music. I say this while knowing that all of my other headphones bar one tend to do this to one degree or another. I'm aware that I'm on the studio side of the window looking in and listening to the recorded feed. Many folks like this. It often means that subtle details can be more easily observed and not everyone likes to be in the front row, preferring a few rows back .... or more. Good for classical music and indeed it's with this genre that I prefer the HD6XX on the occasions I listen to it. They have more upper 'air' than my absolute fave headphones, which I'll get to in a minute.
Let's use Lorde's Pure Heroine as an example for general rock/pop music. Her vocals are often multitracked and the voices to the sides of the central main vocal should be as solid, detailed, alive and fleshily real as the main vocals. There should be NO difference is solidity. The HD6XX thin the side vocals, which means that the overall soundfield is weakened and the impact of the whole is lessened. The HE400S also do that but appear more balanced, as the overall focal density is less solid. The very deep and almost teeth rattling electronic bass on the Lorde album is reduced significantly with the HD6XX, not so much weak, but has much less presence than the upgraded HD540 Reference headphones, which are my no1 goto headphones for almost all listening, partly for this very reason. Presence! On the brilliant 'The Who-Live In Leeds' the HD6XX reduce the feel, the presence, the sheer organic aliveness of John Entwhistle's fabulous bass guitar, this despite showing a little more string detail and the fact that the treble is turned up on his guitar, something he often did. This is not just with the stock cable, it's also with the excellent Mogami cable, which fills out the soundfield more so than the stock version (which actually works quite well with the Ref1s too).
It's quite possible that the HD6XX respond to being balanced and/or used with a good tube amp to sound at their best. They are good with the Schiit stack, but not a patch on the Ref1s, which have such an alive living presence that many cans fail to match. Some sound more like better hifi in small degrees, but certainly not like live musicians. This isn't as big a criticism as it looks, as it is a certainty that the HD6XX portray greater instrument detail and sometime vocal detail than the Ref1s, but that doesn't mean it sounds more like living musicians are playing for you and me. There are aspects of the Alt-J Live At Red Rocks that are better with the HD6XX, some instrument details and ambient air are effortlessly there and I appreciate listening in a little deeper, it doesn't take me back to the live show I was present at in December though. The Ref1s do. Swings and roundabouts, part of the fun of this great hobby
It's that difference between standing in the recording studio behind the mixing board (HD6XX/HE400S), or standing amongst the musicians IN the music, with the more diffuse, yet all-encompassing soundfield that the Ref1s create, where the headphones themselves and the bones of my skull disappear and I'm immersed in the music. Too close for some folks, I know, and very occasionally I will step back a tad and pop on the HD6XX or HifiMAN HE400S, yet there's always something missing and so often I just go back to the Ref1s and sigh in relief as I move back to a live concert instead of a recording of one. It just simply may be that the HD6XX are good with the Schiit stack and brilliant with another amp and in that instance all hail to them. Mind you, when I owned a pair of HD650s at the same time as my stock HD540 Refs seven or eight years ago, as much as I liked the HD650s back then, that sense of living joie de vivre that the Ref1s have in spades was missed. The upgraded Ref1s reign supreme at 29 years old and I'm not sure what I'll do with the HD6XX yet. Better pads could be a start. Dekoni, maybe.
Good on everyone who loves them, as they are most certainly an upgrade on so many other cans out there.

Sounds like your Ref1's ARE your headphones and not much else measures up and that's ok because they deliver. I found that my HD6XX's sound very good on all of my headphone amps but sound absolutely enjoyable on my Bimby/Project Ember rig.

By the way I put the standard Dekoni pads on my pair of HD650's and they increased the bass and soundstage characteristics of these phones. I like how they sound on my Jotunheim and Lake People amps but a bit too dark on the Project Ember.

 

[sennsay]

Sounds like your Ref1's ARE your headphones and not much else measures up and that's ok because they deliver. I found that my HD6XX's sound very good on all of my headphone amps but sound absolutely enjoyable on my Bimby/Project Ember rig.

By the way I put the standard Dekoni pads on my pair of HD650's and they increased the bass and soundstage characteristics of these phones. I like how they sound on my Jotunheim and Lake People amps but a bit too dark on the Project Ember.

Hi Tuneslover, I'm not familiar with Project Ember, I'll look it up. Not that I want to buy another amp just at this moment, but I do like to see what other folks are using sometimes, even if just for my own reference ................................ ok, done my homework, looks like a nice amp, good parts quality too, same as I've used for my own upgraded h/p amps, Dale resistors and Nichicon caps for starters. Excellent website and prices look very reasonable and in kit form as well, nice. Maybe I might want to look at another amp as an alternative ........... I do love a tube glow, the only thing I miss about my Valhalla 2. The Magni 3/Mimby combo is far superior for my use and h/phones, especially the Ref1s.
I also have a nice selection of tubes that could slot in to an Ember. Which version of that amp do you have and what do you like about it?

 

[tracyca]

I must say the 6XX sound extreamly remarkable from the Feliks Audio Espressivo mk2 tube amp.

 

[johnnyliu02]

Just got my HD6xx a few weeks ago! Loving them so far, will be getting my Centrance Hifi-m8s which should tighten everything up a bit. CANT WAIT!

 

[Tuneslover]

Hi Tuneslover, I'm not familiar with Project Ember, I'll look it up. Not that I want to buy another amp just at this moment, but I do like to see what other folks are using sometimes, even if just for my own reference ................................ ok, done my homework, looks like a nice amp, good parts quality too, same as I've used for my own upgraded h/p amps, Dale resistors and Nichicon caps for starters. Excellent website and prices look very reasonable and in kit form as well, nice. Maybe I might want to look at another amp as an alternative ........... I do love a tube glow, the only thing I miss about my Valhalla 2. The Magni 3/Mimby combo is far superior for my use and h/phones, especially the Ref1s.
I also have a nice selection of tubes that could slot in to an Ember. Which version of that amp do you have and what do you like about it?

I purchased the assembled version with the clear acrylic cover. If you have a few headphones with varying impedance levels this amp has 3 output impedance settings that allows you to select a setting best suited for the headphone. The Ember can accept not only 6V tubes but also a wide assortment of 12V tubes. I really like the volume control, very smooth, precise and sensitive. The amp has plenty of power, having no trouble driving my 300 ohm HD6XX or HD650. Above all, the Ember sounds terrific.

 

[sennsay]

I purchased the assembled version with the clear acrylic cover. If you have a few headphones with varying impedance levels this amp has 3 output impedance settings that allows you to select a setting best suited for the headphone. The Ember can accept not only 6V tubes but also a wide assortment of 12V tubes. I really like the volume control, very smooth, precise and sensitive. The amp has plenty of power, having no trouble driving my 300 ohm HD6XX or HD650. Above all, the Ember sounds terrific.

Yes, I'd like to hear another amp with the HD6XX, I don't like the way the soundstage often seems cramped up and squashed together somewhat (made worse by the stock cable over the Mogami), it's nowhere near the all encompassing open expanse of the Ref1s and that's certainly not a product of the Mimby DAC. I like the 'sound' of the Ember, so to speak. I remember hearing my original HD650s sounding rather good with the standard output from a Yamaha amp I used to own. Maybe the higher output impedance suits them better than the less than 0.3 ohm output of the Magni 3. I suspect that the 600 ohm Ref1s have less of an impedance swing with frequency than the HD650/6XX, which are well known for it. Nice that you can alter the output impedance on the Ember.

 

[Gwen]

you guys think it's likely that the current drop will actually go through? the stars aligned for me to get in on it; hoping to make my way out of the ath-m50 ghetto.

 

[cel4145]

you guys think it's likely that the current drop will actually go through? the stars aligned for me to get in on it; hoping to make my way out of the ath-m50 ghetto.

Without a doubt. My guess is that they'll probably run the drop again, too, to add even more people given the August delivery date.

 

[curiousjoy]

I wonder if anyone could point out to the comprehensive review comparing Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX against Sennheiser HD 650, what actually the difference, if any?

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

I think there was a graph comparison and they looked quite familiar. In my memory the HD650 was really smooth and there was a clear "veiled" feeling to it, which I'm not finding on my HD6xx. It could be due to amping difference as well as the fact that my HD6xx is not burned in yet. Nevertheless, a comprehensive review would be helpful.

 

[sennsay]

I think there was a graph comparison and they looked quite familiar. In my memory the HD650 was really smooth and there was a clear "veiled" feeling to it, which I'm not finding on my HD6xx. It could be due to amping difference as well as the fact that my HD6xx is not burned in yet. Nevertheless, a comprehensive review would be helpful.

They are supposedly identical and I too have definitely NO veiling on my HD6xx! In fact they seem almost, but not quite, 'brighter' than I remember from my HD650s 7 years ago.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

They are supposedly identical and I too have definitely NO veiling on my HD6xx! In fact they seem almost, but not quite, 'brighter' than I remember from my HD650s 7 years ago.

Damn strange. But it's a welcome change IMO. I like the smoothness but really could do away with the veil, the sound ony HD6xx is already sexy enough

 

[sennsay]

Damn strange. But it's a welcome change IMO. I like the smoothness but really could do away with the veil, the sound ony HD6xx is already sexy enough

It's been an interesting and varied experience for me, going back to the HD6xx/650 again. I happily sold my HD650s on some years ago and since my HD540 Reference 1s have been so incredible, I have never missed the HD650s at all. And then the HD6xx arrive ... I felt at the time that they were too good to pass up, but have had very mixed reaction since then.
What the HD540 Ref1s bring to the musical experience is so good that the 6xx seemed lacking in overall point source coherence, sheer intimacy, image solidity at times - especially to the sides of the s/stage and bass depth and power. What they DO have is good bass focus around the middle and upper reaches of bass guitar and kick drum. Central focus is tight and a little thin compared to the fleshy 3D natural reality of vocals with the Ref1s. The 6xx also don't plummet into the bass nether regions like the Ref1s do with the pleather pads, Lorde and Random Access Memories are fantastic with these albums and the 6xx lacks the thundering air down the very bottom. They are good at midrange and lower treble detail, better than the Ref1s as they are now (smoother than they used to be stock) ... in fact they always were, when I think about it. Strangely, the album I've enjoyed the most with the 6xx is Lucinda Williams' Down From The Spirit To The Bone, the rest .. not so much, I gravitate sometimes rather quickly back to the Ref1s, their communication skills are paramount, as are the newly acquired Senn HD250 Linear 1s and they get me thinking even more that Sennheiser have lost something essential in the music since the mid 90s. Technically better in some areas they may be, but if you've ever heard the soundstage that a closed set of cans like the HD250 Linear 1s are capable of (better than some open backed models!) and the incredible detail and communication skills, I do wonder what happened after those years.
And yet, the HD6xx are still an astonishing bargain! They need better pads I feel, but the stock ones are ok. Also bearing in mind, it may be that the HD6xx will still sound even better with a decent tube amp. I'm very happy that so many folks are enjoying them and I will be keeping hold of mine for now. There are too many variables combining them with different amplifiers and DACs and I only have the Mimby/Magni 3 combo for now, so I can't try them with anything else.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

I think you like the HD6xx, it's just that the HD540 ruins everything else for you haha

It's been an interesting and varied experience for me, going back to the HD6xx/650 again. I happily sold my HD650s on some years ago and since my HD540 Reference 1s have been so incredible, I have never missed the HD650s at all. And then the HD6xx arrive ... I felt at the time that they were too good to pass up, but have had very mixed reaction since then.
What the HD540 Ref1s bring to the musical experience is so good that the 6xx seemed lacking in overall point source coherence, sheer intimacy, image solidity at times - especially to the sides of the s/stage and bass depth and power. What they DO have is good bass focus around the middle and upper reaches of bass guitar and kick drum. Central focus is tight and a little thin compared to the fleshy 3D natural reality of vocals with the Ref1s. The 6xx also don't plummet into the bass nether regions like the Ref1s do with the pleather pads, Lorde and Random Access Memories are fantastic with these albums and the 6xx lacks the thundering air down the very bottom. They are good at midrange and lower treble detail, better than the Ref1s as they are now (smoother than they used to be stock) ... in fact they always were, when I think about it. Strangely, the album I've enjoyed the most with the 6xx is Lucinda Williams' Down From The Spirit To The Bone, the rest .. not so much, I gravitate sometimes rather quickly back to the Ref1s, their communication skills are paramount, as are the newly acquired Senn HD250 Linear 1s and they get me thinking even more that Sennheiser have lost something essential in the music since the mid 90s. Technically better in some areas they may be, but if you've ever heard the soundstage that a closed set of cans like the HD250 Linear 1s are capable of (better than some open backed models!) and the incredible detail and communication skills, I do wonder what happened after those years.
And yet, the HD6xx are still an astonishing bargain! They need better pads I feel, but the stock ones are ok. Also bearing in mind, it may be that the HD6xx will still sound even better with a decent tube amp. I'm very happy that so many folks are enjoying them and I will be keeping hold of mine for now. There are too many variables combining them with different amplifiers and DACs and I only have the Mimby/Magni 3 combo for now, so I can't try them with anything else.