[AudioJunki3]

How do they compare to HD58X? I'm surprised Bluetooth closed back are even in the same league

They definitely don't uphold the balance of the HD58X, but they sound a lot more exciting with deeper bass. Obviously they're tuned for a certain audience, but for me it's a no brainer, really enjoyable experience using them and I can connect my phone and PC simultaneously which is a massive benefit, it actively switches between sources as I do.

 

[Tentoufu]

I could not detect any benefit of using the Dragonfly cobalt which surprised me - if anything the Dragonfly appeared to reduce the volume of the headphones making them less loud and it did not appear to deliver any noticable improvement in sound clarity or quality. Surprising - why would anyone use this thing?

You probably connected the Dragonfly to the active circuitry which limits input voltage and applies it's own DAC/amp, so the Dragonfly can't be better. Manually turn it off by unfolding while holding the multi function button (ANC, EQ and controls don't work anymore) to access the speakers directly and see the impact of your DAC/amp.

I find the bluetooth performance is good but the wired performance is significantly better - What is frustrating me is that I can find nobody who seems to review the Momentum 3's as wired phones?

Everyone reviews it as a BT ANC headphone because that's the use case with the greatest mass appeal.

Also, I'm annoyed that I can't seem to find any information about using these headphones in a wired configuration - For example if I use the analogue input and the CODEC in my laptop and connect to the Momentum 3's this way - the headphones appear to disable bluetooth - meaning that I cannot see the headphones from the Sennheiser app on my phone. What are the benefits of using them with analogue input as opposed to using them with a USB connection to my laptop? I guess this comes down to the difference between the Codec in the Laptop and the Codec in the headphones?

Be careful with using the word codec, it always signifies encoding and decoding during transmission, which always happens with BT but almost never with wired connections, where the already encoded file gets directly decoded.
If you don't manually turn it off, you will always use the headphones internal DAC/amp circuitry. The analogue connection while turned on will have ADC and DAC conversion inside the headphones to apply DSP (Volume control and app EQ). In that case USB is strictly superior due to foregoing the ADC process.
While turned off, you can use your own DAC/amp, but the internal amp is sufficiently powerful. On the other hand, the 100 Ohm impedance is among the highest of all BT headsets.

If I use the USB connection I seem to get excellent results but I'm unsure what the bit rate is or what format the codec in the Senn Mom 3's defaults to when in USB input mode? Any ideas?

The USB connection uses the BT chips DAC which works at 16 bit/48kHz and plays most formats except DSD.

Based on the Audio quality - I'm guessing that using the codec in the headphones provides the best quality but which codec and what mode? what chip? what bit rate? Anyone out there in Head-Fi land able to offer any assistance - I'd love to know the answers and also if it is possible for me to install a better driver for the Senn Codec or config Foobar2000 to deliver higher quality audio via USB? ASIO? WASPI?

In wired active mode you will always use 16bit/48kHz and decode whatever file you are playing. The headphones probably use a Qualcomm CSR chip with integrated class AB amplifier. If you want to go beyond that you need to play around with external DACs and amps in passive mode.

 

[someyoungguy]

I’ve owned the M2s (twice in fact) as well as M2 wireless. I’ll try to check out the M3 in the weekend.

Was just looking over the specs on the Sennheiser website:
M2 wired:
22 ohm impedance, 113 dB sensitivity (at 1 kHz/V)

M2 wireless:
passive impedance: 28 ohm
active impedance: 480 ohm
113 dB sensitivity

M3:
Passive impedance: 100 ohm
Active impedance: 470 ohm
Sensitivity: 118 dB (wired use)

Interesting thing is the impedance for wired passive use is bumped up to 100 in the M3. Still should be very easy to drive given the high sensitivity, but might contribute some sonic differences. I haven’t seen a consumer-oriented headphone with impedance that high for a while.

Also I never realized the ANC bumped up the impedance so high. I’m not sure why both active and passive impedance is stated for the M2 wireless specs as I thought the ANC couldn’t be turned off on that model.

I remember some years ago the M2 wired was my favorite headphone and I bought a Plenue 1, but could never get satisfactory results and the bass didn’t sound right. I didn’t realize at the time but later figured it must have been poor impedance matching, as the P1 has 3 ohm output impedance to the 22 ohm M2, so only about a 1/7 ratio compared to the 1/8-1/9 or higher ratio often recommended.

If I buy the new model, I do intend to use it wired often. So should be easier to impedance match it, although perhaps not so much of an issue these days with most sources now at <1 ohm output impedance. Also intrigued by the ability to plug it straight into a USB port and avoid needing a USB DAC.

 

[soundblast75]

There are a lot more discussions about these in the Bowers & Wilkins PX7 thread.

 

[bizkid]

Got my Momentum 3 a few days ago. Love it so far. Only noticed one thing:

When I stop playback I get a very tiny amount of hiss on the right cup. This is only noticeable in very silent situations. After a few seconds the hiss stops. Turning on ANC also stops the hiss. It appears on both ANC on and off modes.
Can anyone else replicate this?

 

[royjl]

I had Sony SDR1000, but the ear pressure issue annoys me a lot, my ear is sensitive to this issue. And also the background noise, have no idea whether this one will have this kind of issue

 

[alchemical]

Very tempted by these. That case though... has anyone found a sturdier third-party one that fits?

 

[AudioJunki3]

Very tempted by these. That case though... has anyone found a sturdier third-party one that fits?

I feel the OG Momentum cases should fit. The M3's do fold quite small, from memory of when I owned the M2's, it should fit no problem, much nicer case.

 

[alchemical]

I feel the OG Momentum cases should fit. The M3's do fold quite small, from memory of when I owned the M2's, it should fit no problem, much nicer case.

Thanks for the tip. Is the OG case not full size though, and the M3s have to be folded to power down?

 

[Mark Up]

The original Momentums and V2 had smaller cups than version 3. That would likely keep the old case from closing. I have no doubt that you will be able to search eBay or maybe even Amazon to find a compatible case for Momentum 3 headphones, once they've been out a little while. You can do that for any popular headphone and you'll find several with the search.

 

[wolfmath]

I just got my pair and they're absolutely wonderful. But yeah, the case is garbage. There's tons of empty space in it even when the headphones are in it and it's not particularly protective. Fortunately my backpack has a protective pocket that fits them really well.

 

[EvilHomer80]

Just purchased the momentum wireless 3 impulsively at the airport after always being a bit disappointed with momentum wireless 2 noise cancellation. Being able to test side by side here are my impressions

- overall sound is similar and familiar. If you like momentum’s of the past I think you’ll love these
- bass is a bit more upfront/heavier in default eq but doesn’t seem to hurt mids/high. Still same detail and separation
- found watching Netflix with them great. Voices were crystal clear
- I tested in store against Bose and Sony, I love the momentum sound and don’t think the minor improvements in noise cancelling are worth picking them over these.
- noise cancellation is definitely improved in some areas. Testing on plane there’s a noticeable difference plus I tried in hotel to compare against air conditioning. M3s beat the M2s. For voices and other high pitch noises I didn’t notice much difference though

so on face of it I was trying to decide if it was worth upgrading and I’d say maybe. There are things I don’t like though

1. smart pause is way too sensitive. It was mentioned earlier, turning head right pauses!!!! Sometimes just walking, or eating some nuts pauses!!!. I could reduce it by fiddling with adjustment but found I had to do those regularly. It’s bad enough I’m probably going to return them. It says I’m on latest firmware. Sennheiser uk confirmed its a bit sensitive and might improve with further firmware updates but I don’t want to hold out in case it doesn’t happen (m2s ended up having to have hardware changes due to connectivity issues and were off the shelves for a long time). You can turn the feature off, but it’s a significant feature I wanted and without it there’s not quite enough for me to change from m2s

2. if folded and I pick up the headband the arms flop down under their own weight. This isn’t a huge issue but a bit annoying since this also turns them on. Build quality generally though is great

3. no off switch when around your neck. Trying to get them off whilst open seems fiddly, I’ve not managed to do it yet.

those are my thoughts anyway

 

[wolfmath]

1. smart pause is way too sensitive. It was mentioned earlier, turning head right pauses!!!! Sometimes just walking, or eating some nuts pauses!!!. I could reduce it by fiddling with adjustment but found I had to do those regularly. It’s bad enough I’m probably going to return them. It says I’m on latest firmware. Sennheiser uk confirmed its a bit sensitive and might improve with further firmware updates but I don’t want to hold out in case it doesn’t happen (m2s ended up having to have hardware changes due to connectivity issues and were off the shelves for a long time). You can turn the feature off, but it’s a significant feature I wanted and without it there’s not quite enough for me to change from m2s

I haven't had this issue that you and others are having. I find the smart pause to be working perfectly, much better than I had thought it would

2. if folded and I pick up the headband the arms flop down under their own weight. This isn’t a huge issue but a bit annoying since this also turns them on. Build quality generally though is great

This is a little annoying.

3. no off switch when around your neck. Trying to get them off whilst open seems fiddly, I’ve not managed to do it yet.

The manual says that they go into suspend when they're around your neck. So they're on, but not using too much battery.

 

[EvilHomer80]

I haven't had this issue that you and others are having. I find the smart pause to be working perfectly, much better than I had thought it would.

Actually having posted this, rather than adjust on ear I played around with a few different positions of the cups and tried to work out where the sensor was by lifting in different directions. I’ve managed to find a position that I can repeat each time where it significantly improves the smart pause issue. It can still happen but more as a result of knocking them (resting my head against a cushion for example).

I’ll test them a few days in this position and If it solves it fair enough. Note the position is a bit tighter than I thought I needed if anyone still has a few issues worth a go

 

[erich6]

I haven't had the smart pause issue. I was worried about his feature given what others have said but it works perfectly for me and I'm enjoying it having it.