[joshnor713]

  Ok..I take it back.. the IE800 does sound beautiful! When I first got it on Friday..It sounded really muffled and bass heavy but after letting it burn in for the last 2 nights I can say these are a keeper..  I can hear beats that I have never heard before with my old earphones.. Very happy!!

 
Nice man, so excited to try them, I get them tomorrow.  I'll keep in mind what you said and give them a couple days before I decide what to do.  I got the se846 a couple weeks ago and really want to give these a shot before I settle with my ultimate IEM

 

[JackKontney]

Referencing a discussion of IEMs and hearing health from a couple pages/days back, here's some info from Sensaphonics.
 

 The table below shows recommended daily exposure limits based on OSHA and NIOSH guidelines. These numbers can only predict average risk across the population, not individual risk. According to the U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services, the excess risk of developing occupational noise-induced hearing loss (NIHL) is 8% using the NIOSH guideline and 25% with the OSHA guideline.

 
The differences start with the baseline (85 dBA), which OSHA says is OK for 16 hours of daily exposure, but NIOSH limits to 8 hours (a typical work day). But the key differences are actually more pronounced after that due to the doubling factor used. OSHA cuts listening time in half for every 5 dB of volume increase. NIOSH uses the (scientifically more correct) equal energy approach, meaning that exposure time needs to be halved for every 3 dB increase.
 


So it's not really a matter of which scale is "right." It's more about the level of protection you want. If you're serious about maintaining your hearing health, the more scientifically viable (and more conservative) NIOSH guideline offers significantly more protection, and is what Sensaphonics recommends.
 
Keep in mind that both guidelines were developed to protect industrial workers, not musicians. Your best bet is to see your audiologist annually.

 

[Kunlun]

Than

  Referencing a discussion of IEMs and hearing health from a couple pages/days back, here's some info from Sensaphonics.
 
 
The differences start with the baseline (85 dBA), which OSHA says is OK for 16 hours of daily exposure, but NIOSH limits to 8 hours (a typical work day). But the key differences are actually more pronounced after that due to the doubling factor used. OSHA cuts listening time in half for every 5 dB of volume increase. NIOSH uses the (scientifically more correct) equal energy approach, meaning that exposure time needs to be halved for every 3 dB increase.
 


So it's not really a matter of which scale is "right." It's more about the level of protection you want. If you're serious about maintaining your hearing health, the more scientifically viable (and more conservative) NIOSH guideline offers significantly more protection, and is what Sensaphonics recommends.
 
Keep in mind that both guidelines were developed to protect industrial workers, not musicians. Your best bet is to see your audiologist annually.

 
Thanks, Jack! Important info.

 

[musiclvr]

Hello all! I am on the fence as to which TOTL IEM I want to splurge on. My research has landed me between the IE800 and the Dita Audio The Answer (The Truth Edition) iem. Can anyone compare the two for me or offer any personal insight? My only reference for iem sound signature that I have at the moment are the Cardas EM5813 and the Cypher Labs C6iem both of which I find to be too dark/ warm/bassy as a reference level iem. Thanks

 

[tumburu]

 
In fact, the k3003 measures with poor bass extension. It's been a while since I've heard the k3003, but people have pm'd me asking for something with better bass extension to replace their k3003, so it's definitely audible.
 
The ie800 has better sub-bass, by contrast.

 
I would't say 'poor', more like light. People who say 3003 are U shaped should check headphones with sine sweeps for getting a better idea. Their lows are pretty much on the same level with the mids, but roll of a bit earlier than I'd like. They are treble emphasized IEMs, if I would have to describe them like that. White filters accentuates that even more, to the point that unproper produced music ('hot' in the hi end) can't be listened to.
 
OTOH ie800 are more extended in the low end, but also quite a bit boosted there, while having more recessed hi mids, right where the 3003s are emphasizing them. I think the ie800 are more 'fun' to listen to, while the 3003s are more 'analytical' (they can spot distortions in the recordings very easy). 

 

[Dragonsan]

   
I would't say 'poor', more like light. People who say 3003 are U shaped should check headphones with sine sweeps for getting a better idea. Their lows are pretty much on the same level with the mids, but roll of a bit earlier than I'd like. They are treble emphasized IEMs, if I would have to describe them like that. White filters accentuates that even more, to the point that unproper produced music ('hot' in the hi end) can't be listened to.
 
OTOH ie800 are more extended in the low end, but also quite a bit boosted there, while having more recessed hi mids, right where the 3003s are emphasizing them. I think the ie800 are more 'fun' to listen to, while the 3003s are more 'analytical' (they can spot distortions in the recordings very easy). 

 
I've heard that the K3003s were balanced. So the bass isn't just recessed, but rolled off?

 

[tumburu]

I never said recessed or rolled off. I said the bass is on the same level with the mids. So in this respect they are, indeed balanced. The treble is a completely different story.
 
To be more specific, I think the 3003 don't extend properly in the lowest octave. I use a low shelf of +4dBs at 20Hz to compensate that. I hope it's clearer now...

 

[Kunlun]

   
I would't say 'poor', more like light. People who say 3003 are U shaped should check headphones with sine sweeps for getting a better idea. Their lows are pretty much on the same level with the mids, but roll off a bit earlier than I'd like. They are treble emphasized IEMs, if I would have to describe them like that. White filters accentuates that even more, to the point that unproper produced music ('hot' in the hi end) can't be listened to.
 
OTOH ie800 are more extended in the low end, but also quite a bit boosted there, while having more recessed hi mids, right where the 3003s are emphasizing them. I think the ie800 are more 'fun' to listen to, while the 3003s are more 'analytical' (they can spot distortions in the recordings very easy). 

 
 

  I never said recessed or rolled off. I said the bass is on the same level with the mids. So in this respect they are, indeed balanced. The treble is a completely different story.
 
To be more specific, I think the 3003 don't extend properly in the lowest octave. I use a low shelf of +4dBs at 20Hz to compensate that. I hope it's clearer now...

 
Sounds like we agree on the K3003's poor bass extension (not really sure the word "light" works here, but however you want to say it)!  It's cool, man.
 
 

   
I've heard that the K3003s were balanced. So the bass isn't just recessed, but rolled off?

 
Hi Dragonsan, perhaps this chart of the k3003 will help you see what people are hearing:
 

You can see the k3003's bass rolls-off. You can also see the treble burst followed by a lessening in the treble.
 
The ie800, thanks to the special venting system with helmholtz resonators, is hard to get an accurate chart for, but you can see how someone used to the k3003 would hear the ie800's better bass extension and treble extension (as smoothed by the helmholtz resonators) as being boosted below and flattened in the treble. So, everything is explained! Hope that helps.

 

[tumburu]

 
Sounds like we agree on the K3003's poor bass extension (not really sure the word "light" works here, but however you want to say it)!  It's cool, man.
 

 
 
Mate, I am perfectly fine if you disagree with me, no idea why you are not, but please, don't put your words in my mouth. I explained, as clear as I could (with my not-so-perfect-English) my point of view regarding how the 3003s sound. Saying that they have poor bass extension is a bit strange to me. I used the word 'light' in regards to their extension in the lowest octave because it is definitely better suited to what's happening there, than the word 'poor', which is an exaggeration, in my opinion. However, I noticed that some fellow head-fi-ers even consider their bass is boosted. No idea how they get that. To me, if sensibly compensated in the very low end (just the first octave and only), their bass response is very revealing. I even like that bass more than that of the Beyer T1. It was surprising to me to find that but it's true. Of course YMMV. From my experience those IEMs have a very different weakness, but this is not the place to discuss that.
 
So, to conclude (for avoiding any misinterpretation of my words) this too big of an OT, I surely don't agree that 3003s have poor bass extension. I have them, I'm not writing based on memories, and listen to that bass almost every day.
 
Maybe I'll write a comparison between these two, when the time allows.
 
Adios!
 
Edit: Oh, those graphs; we can't live without them, but can't live with them either. Just running sweeps one can know a lot better what's happening there, that interpreting the 250 ways of measuring headphones found around the net.

 

[jeffarm13]

Hello all! I am on the fence as to which TOTL IEM I want to splurge on. My research has landed me between the IE800 and the Dita Audio The Answer (The Truth Edition) iem. Can anyone compare the two for me or offer any personal insight? My only reference for iem sound signature that I have at the moment are the Cardas EM5813 and the Cypher Labs C6iem both of which I find to be too dark/ warm/bassy as a reference level iem. Thanks

I have both and like both.  I find the IE800 to be a bit more comfortable, with a more microphonic cable and a little more laid back signature.  I find myself using it to listen to jazz and acoustic music most of the time.  The DITA Answer (Truth Edition) is a little more forward in the mids, especially the upper mids, and I've been using them a lot since I got them to listen to more electrified genres - mostly rock and metal for me.  Both sound very good.

 

[james444]

 
Sounds like we agree on the K3003's poor bass extension (not really sure the word "light" works here, but however you want to say it)!  It's cool, man.
 
Hi Dragonsan, perhaps this chart of the k3003 will help you see what people are hearing:
 

 

 
So, to conclude (for avoiding any misinterpretation of my words) this too big of an OT, I surely don't agree that 3003s have poor bass extension. I have them, I'm not writing based on memories, and listen to that bass almost every day.
 
Maybe I'll write a comparison between these two, when the time allows.
 
Adios!
 
Edit: Oh, those graphs; we can't live without them, but can't live with them either. Just running sweeps one can know a lot better what's happening there, that interpreting the 250 ways of measuring headphones found around the net.

 
 
This thread needs more graphs... 

 

 
Unless Rin Choi can't measure earphones correctly (which I highly doubt), the K3003 don't have poor bass extension and are not rolled off. This also correlates with my subjective listening impression, as I can easily hear them @20Hz.
 
From what I've been gathering, deep bass isn't easy to measure correctly and even Tyll has two graphs of the IE800, an earlier one that shows bass roll-off and a later one that shows linear bass.
 
When in doubt between two graphs, I tend to trust the one that shows less roll-off, because even a very slight imperfection in the setup may result in a falsely rolled-off measurement, whereas (afaik) there's no way to falsely measure too much deep bass.
 
Regarding subjective impressions and sine sweeps, listening volume matters a lot due to equal loudness contours. In a nutshell, those who listen at lower volume will need more deep bass and those who listen at higher volume will need less. I for my part like the IE800's deep bass emphasis quite a bit at lower volume, but find it a little obtrusive at higher volume. The K3003 may sound a tad bass-light in comparison at very low volume, but on the other hand their bass gets never obtrusive at higher volume.
 
Bottom line, it's great to have two brilliant sounding IEMs like the IE800 and K3003 and people should simply pick the one that suits their tastes and listening habits better. Subjectively preferring one over the other doesn't make the other a lesser IEM imo. 

 

 

[proedros]

   
 
Mate, I am perfectly fine if you disagree with me, no idea why you are not, but please, don't put your words in my mouth. I explained, as clear as I could (with my not-so-perfect-English) my point of view regarding how the 3003s sound. Saying that they have poor bass extension is a bit strange to me. I used the word 'light' in regards to their extension in the lowest octave because it is definitely better suited to what's happening there, than the word 'poor', which is an exaggeration, in my opinion. However, I noticed that some fellow head-fi-ers even consider their bass is boosted. No idea how they get that. To me, if sensibly compensated in the very low end (just the first octave and only), their bass response is very revealing. I even like that bass more than that of the Beyer T1. It was surprising to me to find that but it's true. Of course YMMV. From my experience those IEMs have a very different weakness, but this is not the place to discuss that.
 
So, to conclude (for avoiding any misinterpretation of my words) this too big of an OT, I surely don't agree that 3003s have poor bass extension. I have them, I'm not writing based on memories, and listen to that bass almost every day.
 
Maybe I'll write a comparison between these two, when the time allows.
 
Adios!
 
Edit: Oh, those graphs; we can't live without them, but can't live with them either. Just running sweeps one can know a lot better what's happening there, that interpreting the 250 ways of measuring headphones found around the net.

 
hey it's ok don't get all worked up
 
Kunlun doesn't like the K3003 (if i remember correct he only tried them briefly and gave them 2.5/5 stars)  ,so he can't accept maybe that K3003 is a great iem and many people here like it and enjoy its balanced sound

as for the bold part , good insight of you there - and yeah the graphs are a great way of telling people 'dont trust your ears'
 
poor bass ? nope . harsh treble ? nope. great iem ? yup.
 
cheers
 
ps : kudos to james4444 for another informative and unbiased post

 

[shadow04]

Hello all! I am on the fence as to which TOTL IEM I want to splurge on. My research has landed me between the IE800 and the Dita Audio The Answer (The Truth Edition) iem. Can anyone compare the two for me or offer any personal insight? My only reference for iem sound signature that I have at the moment are the Cardas EM5813 and the Cypher Labs C6iem both of which I find to be too dark/ warm/bassy as a reference level iem. Thanks

The tonality of the two is the main difference IMO. I find the Dita more tuned towards mastering purposes, as opposed to the IE800 which I find are much more natural sounding. What I mean by natural is that vocals and instruments sound like what I hear in real life(live performance), I find the timbre of the Dita a bit lacking(the Dita does drums exceptionally well though), they sound "cold" whereas the IE800 expresses quite a bit more "emotion" in the music. 

The vocals on the Dita are more forward compared to the IE800, bass and treble are about the same with maybe a slight advantage to the IE800(Dita do sound less peaky if memory serves). At first listen, I thought the Dita resolves micro-details better but upon further listening, I find that those micro-details are also present in the IE800, just not as obvious as the Dita portrays them. That said, I don't remember getting fatigued listening to the Dita but the IE800 are certainly more laid back - music just flows without throwing every little details my way unless I specifically want to look out for them. Dita is more suitable for portable use, its cable is very supple and has zero microphonics, whereas IE800 it is not at all ideal to use on-the-go. Neither has isolation like BA-based IEMs, but I find the Dita isolate a little better than the IE800. As for fit, I tend to get a sore on my left ear after 1-3 hours with the Dita while the IE800 is probably the most comfortable and fuss-free IEM I've ever had.
 
Both are fine IEMs in their own rights, in terms of technicality I'd say they are about par, in the end I think it comes down to the type of sound sig you are after and how much you intend to use them on-the-go. I very much prefer the IE800 myself. 

 

[joshnor713]

Just got my pair of ie800 in.  Coming from the se846, my initial impressions:
 
OMG, these things are tiny.  My first thought is there's no way they can compete with the 846, they're 1/4 the size!  So after getting over that and opening my mind, I put them on.
 
On design:  I love the fit.  It's almost as good as the foam tips on the 846.  Microphonics isn't as bad as I imagined (my expectations were pretty low from what I've heard). I love how they just disappear in my ear.  I just feel the bass ports slightly sticking out.  They're comfy and don't fall out.  No complaints about the fit/seal whatsoever.
 
On sound:  Treble and sub-bass.  Those two things hit me equally in comparison with the 846.  The sparkle of the treble and presence of the sub-bass is what I noticed the most right off the bat.  I also noticed a slightly more airy, clearer sound, and soundstage, as others have said.  I expected there to be more of these though, maybe my expectations were too high?  Or maybe I need to listen more, I literally just got them and listened to a handful of tracks.  And then there's something weird.  I can't put my finger on it yet, but I feel like something is missing in comparison with the 846's.  The best I can describe it is "fullness".  I listen to a good amount of rock and I feel like the 846's capture more of the fullness of all the different frequencies together.  Did anyone else get this as well?  Maybe it's the foward mids and low-pass filter of the 846?  I feel like the ie800 might be better for "softer" music (don't know a better way to describe it atm).  Need to do more listening...

 

[BensonTT]

^^ let them burn in for a couple nights... They will sound even better.. I wasn't impressed at first but I love them now!