Sennheiser IE800 IEM's
Jul 12, 2015 at 5:00 PM Post #3,811 of 7,998
   
No offense, but it seems your experience with IEMs is rather limited. Damping on both sides of the driver is an inherent part of (professional) IEM tuning. Actually, a large number of IEMs come with front side dampers already installed.
 
Besides, Rin Choi (who knows a lot more about this subject than any of us) has shown that a small amount of added acoustic resistance improves the IE800's treble in both smoothness and extension (see "ON SECOND THOUGHT #3"). Same goes for minor frontal leakage, which has been measured (on the FX700, iirc) to cause a reduction of bass levels, first and foremost in the sub-bass range.
 
Seems you guys are extrapolating from speakers or something like that. Anyway, as far as IEMs are concerned, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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Last not least, please note the THIMC ("to whom it may concern") at the top of my post. You don't want to smooth the top or bottom? Fine! Feel free to ignore it.
smile_phones.gif
 

 
Well, I must concede that I haven't opened any driver of the various IEMs I own to check what's inside. As far as damping on both sides is required, I just don't know, but am not going to believe this offhandedly. I can imagine that it's beneficial to have some damping in the canal reaching from the driver membrane(s) to the eardrum to suppress standing waves. But it's not a matter of inserting a thin damping fabric anywhere. An abrupt change of acoustic impedance inevitably causes an interference of transient and frequency response. That's no different in speakers and IEMs, which are mini-speakers. It may be beneficial if it's in the right place where it makes for a compensation of an existing irregularity, though. But that doesn't mean it's beneficial when you place it anywhere.
 
I do smooth both top and bottom of the IE 8's frequency response because it sounds better, more neutral to me, via equalizer. But feel free to do it your way!
wink.gif
 
 
[edit:] The provided link (which I had overlooked at first) was an interesting and informative read. It seems that I have to try the fabric mod and stand corrected in the case of the IE 800 insofar as the fabric insert is exactly at the right place where it's possible to insert it to compensate for an existing irregularity – by chance. I don't think I will make use of the bass compensation by the leaking effect, though, as it causes an unwanted loss of efficiency at low frequencies, while the bass response can be perfectly equalized with an equalizer – other than the treble response, if the linked graph is really universally valid for every pair of ears (which is usually not the case with the upper end of frequency response graphs).
 
Now the ER-4PT – which you may know – benefits enormously from replacing the green filter membrane with some slightly compressed loose wool fibres. It removes the treble harshness, apparently introduced by the filter membrane.
Or the SE846 with its swappable filters: it sounds best with all filters removed. It didn't sound good to me without any filter tube, but an empty tube created the ideal high-frequency characteristic. So I felt confirmed in my conviction that changes of acoustic impedances are to be avoided if possible or designed to be smooth, not abrupt. Except for cases where existing irregularities have to be compensated.
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 5:30 PM Post #3,812 of 7,998
   
Totally new! Saw another auction go down for 300 eur, so yeah, about now is a fantastic time to get these.
 
Another question, if you will, fellow head-fiers: has anyone recabled the IE 800 into balanced-compatible? 
 
I'm planning on getting an AK120ii soon, so I'm looking into it. Maybe you can tell me if I'm way off here: I have to have them physically recabled (by, for say http://vesperaudio.com) and then have them terminate the new cable into a balanced 2.5, right? Then plug them into the AK120ii and blammo - balanced magic! And then if I want to plug them into something else, a usual 2.5 to 3.5 adapter will do?
 
(Balanced is pretty complicated, but I kind of feel the obligation to do all I can to make these babies sing, you know. I want to see how good they can get.)

If sennheiser did not end them balanced, I think that you should not insist on using them balanced. Some people cut the first connector, like moon audio has the balanced version, but it void warranty, and again, I have no ideea if the gain in SQ is worth the trouble. 
   
No offense, but it seems your experience with IEMs is rather limited. Damping on both sides of the driver is an inherent part of (professional) IEM tuning. Actually, a large number of IEMs come with front side dampers already installed.
 
Besides, Rin Choi (who knows a lot more about this subject than any of us) has shown that a small amount of added acoustic resistance improves the IE800's treble in both smoothness and extension (see "ON SECOND THOUGHT #3"). Same goes for minor frontal leakage, which has been measured (on the FX700, iirc) to cause a reduction of bass levels, first and foremost in the sub-bass range.
 
Seems you guys are extrapolating from speakers or something like that. Anyway, as far as IEMs are concerned, you're barking up the wrong tree.
wink.gif

 
Last not least, please note the THIMC ("to whom it may concern") at the top of my post. You don't want to smooth the top or bottom? Fine! Feel free to ignore it.
smile_phones.gif
 

Ie800 already has a sound diffuser inside. You are adding a second, which adds second reflections, which reflect between the cloth and the diffusers, and the metal protection. It is not necessarly that it will not make things better, but for people sensitive to fine changes in transients, the mod would kind of be against the reason why people buy ie800 in the first place. 
 
Also, I do not add to it that your thing is bad, just that people who simply do it, and not entirely like it, might search for a reason why. 
 
It is great to try tricks to make sound more to your liking, I have nothing against it.  A sound diffuser is needed in IEMs, to simulate soundstage and natural reverb resulting from soundwaves hitting the outer ear. 
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 6:04 PM Post #3,813 of 7,998
The Layla was no better than the 846. Feels great selling it and keeping the 846.
Erm... I would most strongly disagree with you, having the IE800, 1p2, 846 and Layla, I can say that it is very easy to hear the metallic treble of the 846...

That being said, and I've been very public with this, I would love the Layla (or the 846) way more than I do if they had the treble drivers from the 1p2...
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 6:14 PM Post #3,814 of 7,998
Erm... I would most strongly disagree with you, having the IE800, 1p2, 846 and Layla, I can say that it is very easy to hear the metallic treble of the 846...

That being said, and I've been very public with this, I would love the Layla (or the 846) way more than I do if they had the treble drivers from the 1p2...

 
And you don't have the guts to transplant them?
tongue_smile.gif

 
More seriously: With an empty filter tube (instead of the white filter) the treble becomes very smooth and non-metallic (to my ears), and it can be further improved by adding 3.6-4 dB at 16 kHz. Then again, it didn't sound metallic to my ears with the white filter either.
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 6:55 PM Post #3,815 of 7,998
Erm... I would most strongly disagree with you, having the IE800, 1p2, 846 and Layla, I can say that it is very easy to hear the metallic treble of the 846...

That being said, and I've been very public with this, I would love the Layla (or the 846) way more than I do if they had the treble drivers from the 1p2...

Hi Duncan, Have you tried Angie's or K10's, how do they stack up against 1p2's treble?
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 7:02 PM Post #3,816 of 7,998
   
Totally new! Saw another auction go down for 300 eur, so yeah, about now is a fantastic time to get these.
 
Another question, if you will, fellow head-fiers: has anyone recabled the IE 800 into balanced-compatible? 
 
I'm planning on getting an AK120ii soon, so I'm looking into it. Maybe you can tell me if I'm way off here: I have to have them physically recabled (by, for say http://vesperaudio.com) and then have them terminate the new cable into a balanced 2.5, right? Then plug them into the AK120ii and blammo - balanced magic! And then if I want to plug them into something else, a usual 2.5 to 3.5 adapter will do?
 
(Balanced is pretty complicated, but I kind of feel the obligation to do all I can to make these babies sing, you know. I want to see how good they can get.)

IE800 did not have a good synergy with AK120 II (Unbalanced). I don't think, going balanced would've changed that much. I got the Hugo instead, and it's a much better pairing.
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 8:52 PM Post #3,817 of 7,998
  You are adding a second, which adds second reflections, which reflect between the cloth and the diffusers, and the metal protection. It is not necessarly that it will not make things better, but for people sensitive to fine changes in transients, the mod would kind of be against the reason why people buy ie800 in the first place. 

 
That material should behave like an absorber, I can't think you'll hear reflections. That mod is for people who want to tame the treble anyway, if you like them as they are, then it's not for you.
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 10:07 PM Post #3,818 of 7,998
Balanced is pretty complicated, but I kind of feel the obligation to do all I can to make these babies sing, you know. I want to see how good they can get.


The only time I would go balanced would be to double the power received by headphones. IE800 are not hard to drive. So going balanced will not show audible results. IMHO
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 10:27 PM Post #3,819 of 7,998
The only time I would go balanced would be to double the power received by headphones. IE800 are not hard to drive. So going balanced will not show audible results. IMHO

 
I would like to hear from someone who's heard them balanced on this. Not a lot of info on this out there.
 
  IE800 did not have a good synergy with AK120 II (Unbalanced). I don't think, going balanced would've changed that much. I got the Hugo instead, and it's a much better pairing.
 

 
A bit too expensive for me :D Why didn't you like the 120II with the IE800s?
 
And on the subject, something I know has been asked a million times here already, but what is a good amp with the IE 800? I'm thinking a portable tube amp might mellow out the treble and add to the soul and warmth of these...
 
Jul 12, 2015 at 10:36 PM Post #3,820 of 7,998
A bit too expensive for me :D Why didn't you like the 120II with the IE800s?

And on the subject - I know this has been asked a million times here already, but once more won't hurt - what is a good amp with the IE 800? I'm thinking a portable tube amp might mellow out the treble and add to the soul and warmth of these...

Not enough oomph at lower volume levels (35 -40). At higher volume levels, it gets shouty. AK120 II is perfect with BA iems though, love it with SE846 and K10U. For portable use, I use my IE800 with iPhone 5s and its a great match (60-65% volume).

Pico amps are crowd favourite here for IEMs. ALO Rx is also getting rave reviews. I have tried neither. Used hugo goes for around the retail of a new AK120 II, if you shop around.
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 12:09 AM Post #3,821 of 7,998
Erm... I would most strongly disagree with you, having the IE800, 1p2, 846 and Layla, I can say that it is very easy to hear the metallic treble of the 846...

That being said, and I've been very public with this, I would love the Layla (or the 846) way more than I do if they had the treble drivers from the 1p2...
Basically Two companies makes BA Drivers
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 1:59 AM Post #3,822 of 7,998
  Interesting that you mention the tips will stay on more securely. Several times now I've had to fish out the right tip from inside my ear canal with a pair of tweezers. Anyone else experience this?
 
And yes, I keep my ears clean.

 
You can call yourself lucky if they stayed inside your ear canal. I've had one of these little buggers come off in the street and almost drop into a manhole. Worst tip design ever, imo.
 
 
That material should behave like an absorber, I can't think you'll hear reflections. That mod is for people who want to tame the treble anyway, if you like them as they are, then it's not for you.

 
^ This. Besides, I don't get the point of theorizing on a mod that takes just a few minutes to try and see whether you like it or not. Just hope that its mere existence doesn't bother anyone. 
wink.gif
 
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 2:38 AM Post #3,823 of 7,998
   
I would like to hear from someone who's heard them balanced on this. Not a lot of info on this out there.
 
 
A bit too expensive for me :D Why didn't you like the 120II with the IE800s?
 
And on the subject, something I know has been asked a million times here already, but what is a good amp with the IE 800? I'm thinking a portable tube amp might mellow out the treble and add to the soul and warmth of these...

Fiio e12a. The best amp to pair with ie800. MAkes the soundstage better, depper, better layering, and is pretty inexpensive. 
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 2:56 AM Post #3,824 of 7,998
  Fiio e12a. The best amp to pair with ie800. MAkes the soundstage better, depper, better layering, and is pretty inexpensive. 

 
Since Fiio E12A incorporates highly regarded MUSES02 opamp I do believe that it sounds as good as it is described by Dobrescu George. I personally use MUSES01 in my amplifier and get an excellent previously unheard on other amps and/or with other opamps beautiful sound which sends shivers down my spine.
 
Jul 13, 2015 at 10:09 AM Post #3,825 of 7,998
Since Fiio E12A incorporates highly regarded MUSES02 opamp I do believe that it sounds as good as it is described by Dobrescu George. I personally use MUSES01 in my amplifier and get an excellent previously unheard on other amps and/or with other opamps beautiful sound which sends shivers down my spine.

Yes the E12A is a very good match with the IE800. If I ever miss power from my ZX1 I can take the Fiio an get a very good amplification. But the ZX1 sound more refined unamped in it's own range.
 

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