[joshk4]

I tried a Woo Wa7 beautiful amp/DAC combo with HD800 and it is way to dark for me, the HDVD800 has much better synergy and pairing.

That's good to hear... Where iam at, I couldn't audition the wa7,but could the hdvd 800. The hdvd 800 was so much better than the others I auditioned that I picked it up.

 

[cddc]

   
Totally agree with your comment about the HD800 being difficult to amp well.  That's why I went with the HDVA600 to begin with (also got a package deal on the HDVA600 + HD800 that helped) because Sennheiser designed the amp specifically to drive the HD800.  I have heard recent comments about the Schiit Mjolnir2 w/ tubes performing very well with the HD800.  I have the Mjolnir1 w/o tubes and it does not pair well with the HD800 - too bright.  The tube effect of the Mojo2 is probably reducing some of the inherent HD800 bright treble range.
 
To the high-end, I heard the HD800 driven by the Yggy/Ragnarok and Yggy/WA5 stacks at the Nashville meet.  Both stacks drove the HD800 exceptionally well - there was no brightness at all to the SQ, just really great mid/treble performance, especially with the WA5 amp.
 
As for DAC's, I am using the Schiit Gungnir MultiBit and would recommend it as a great pairing with the HDVA600.  The level of detail and SQ are excellent with the MB technology from Schiit Audio.
 
Enjoy your music!
RCB

 
 
Just wondering whether the GMB uses delta-sigma or R2R? Purrin says Gungnir uses a delta-sigma D/A converter, but not sure if the multibit upgrade will change it to R2R or semi R2R.
 
And how do you rate the GMB in comparison to Yggy? Thanks a lot.

 

[RCBinTN]

   
 
Just wondering whether the GMB uses delta-sigma or R2R? Purrin says Gungnir uses a delta-sigma D/A converter, but not sure if the multibit upgrade will change it to R2R or semi R2R.
 
And how do you rate the GMB in comparison to Yggy? Thanks a lot.

 
Sorry, I don't know about R2R or semi R2R, but from reading the Schiit thread I know it is changed from delta-sigma to R2R with the MB upgrade.
 
Whatever that means.  I took one EE class and barely passed it.
 
Other somewhat relevant info from the posts - comments are the GMB is close in SQ to the Yggy.  I haven't directly compared the DAC's. However, I've heard both (with different rigs) and the SQ was excellent with both DACs.  I own the GMB and am happy with it - not looking to upgrade to the Yggy at this point...
 
Hope this helps -
RCB

 

[cddc]

   
Sorry, I don't know about R2R or semi R2R, but from reading the Schiit thread I know it is changed from delta-sigma to R2R with the MB upgrade.
 
Whatever that means.  I took one EE class and barely passed it.
 
Other somewhat relevant info from the posts - comments are the GMB is close in SQ to the Yggy.  I haven't directly compared the DAC's. However, I've heard both (with different rigs) and the SQ was excellent with both DACs.  I own the GMB and am happy with it - not looking to upgrade to the Yggy at this point...
 
Hope this helps -
RCB

 
 
Great, thanks a lot!
 
So the improvement from GMB to Yggy can really be explained by the law of diminishing marginal return...

 
If we rate Yggy as 100%, how do you rate GMB and Bimby? 

 

[RCBinTN]

I have both the HDVA600 and BHA-1. Both are very musical with the HD800. The HDVA600 sounds a touch smoother and warmer than the BHA-1, and micro details come through slightly clearer. The BHA-1 is more neutral and has a slightly better dynamics. It is also more extended in the bass and treble.

Both amps are great choices with the HD800, but if you have other headphones, e.g. LCDX, Sony Z7, the BHA1 is probably the more versatile option.

 
Well folks, I have performed my test with the BHA-1 amp and the HD800, and I have to admit that I was wrong.
 
My conclusion is that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 very well, maybe better than the HDVA600.  This was an eye-opening conclusion for me.
 
My first test of the BHA-1, about six months ago, used my old Gungnir D/S DAC as the source.  At that time, I concluded that the BHA-1 amp did not pair well with the HD800 because the SQ was muddy and unrefined, especially the upper mids and treble.  There was plenty of power from the BHA-1, but the listening experience was not pleasant.  The HDVA600 sounded much better.
 
Based on that test, I reported on Head-Fi that the BHA-1 amp did not pair well with the HD800.
 
Recent comments on this thread, from BHA-1 owners, prompted me to repeat my test.  The recent test used the Gungnir DAC upgraded with the MB technology.  The result was very different than the first test.  The SQ from the new stack is musical, well-defined, and far reaching.  By that, I mean the bass is strong and fast, the excellent mids/treble performance of the HD800 is there, and the sound stage is full and satisfying.  After I closed my mouth, I played through music genre from rock / blues / jazz / classical / acoustic.  In all cases, the SQ of the stack was excellent.
 
On reflection, I attribute the better SQ to the Gungnir MB upgrade.  Every other component in the system is the same.  I am now a believer that the quality of the upstream source is every bit as important as is the amp itself.  And, IMHO, the SQ of the HD800 with this stack is really good.  Not quite as smooth as the Yggy/Rag or Yggy/WA5 stacks, that are more expensive, but really close.
 
The exact stack used was:  Macbook Pro/Jriver21 - optical - GMB - Wywires Blue - BHA-1 - Wywires Red - HD800 (unmodded).
 
Hope this helps,
RCBinTN

 

[grdlow]

   
Well folks, I have performed my test with the BHA-1 amp and the HD800, and I have to admit that I was wrong.
 
My conclusion is that the BHA-1 drives the HD800 very well, maybe better than the HDVA600.  This was an eye-opening conclusion for me.
 
My first test of the BHA-1, about six months ago, used my old Gungnir D/S DAC as the source.  At that time, I concluded that the BHA-1 amp did not pair well with the HD800 because the SQ was muddy and unrefined, especially the upper mids and treble.  There was plenty of power from the BHA-1, but the listening experience was not pleasant.  The HDVA600 sounded much better.
 
Based on that test, I reported on Head-Fi that the BHA-1 amp did not pair well with the HD800.
 
Recent comments on this thread, from BHA-1 owners, prompted me to repeat my test.  The recent test used the Gungnir DAC upgraded with the MB technology.  The result was very different than the first test.  The SQ from the new stack is musical, well-defined, and far reaching.  By that, I mean the bass is strong and fast, the excellent mids/treble performance of the HD800 is there, and the sound stage is full and satisfying.  After I closed my mouth, I played through music genre from rock / blues / jazz / classical / acoustic.  In all cases, the SQ of the stack was excellent.
 
On reflection, I attribute the better SQ to the Gungnir MB upgrade.  Every other component in the system is the same.  I am now a believer that the quality of the upstream source is every bit as important as is the amp itself.  And, IMHO, the SQ of the HD800 with this stack is really good.  Not quite as smooth as the Yggy/Rag or Yggy/WA5 stacks, that are more expensive, but really close.
 
The exact stack used was:  Macbook Pro/Jriver21 - optical - GMB - Wywires Blue - BHA-1 - Wywires Red - HD800 (unmodded).
 
Hope this helps,
RCBinTN

I reckon this highlights the transparency of the HD800 and the BHA-1. My setup is similar.
 
Surface Pro/Jriver 20 - iFi iUSB 3.0 - Yggy - BHA-1 - Wywires Red - HD800 (unmodded)

 

[Swolern]

Been loving my HDVD800 / HD800 pairing. Best I have heard to date! The HDVD800 really gives the hd800 a large soundstage, very high clarity, & instrument separation. Also the HDVD800 seems to smooth out the treble around the 6k peak mark, which makes the 800 less harsh and fatiguing, which it has known to be. I'm using the balanced Cardas Clear cables which seems to magnify those positive findings, turning it up a few notches in clarity & instrument separation. I was never a expensive cable believer before, but wow, I can really notice a difference. This setup is simply sublime!! A perfect match for the HD800.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

Been loving my HDVD800 / HD800 pairing. Best I have heard to date! The HDVD800 really gives the hd800 a large soundstage, very high clarity, & instrument separation. Also the HDVD800 seems to smooth out the treble around the 6k peak mark, which makes the 800 less harsh and fatiguing, which it has known to be. I'm using the balanced Cardas Clear cables which seems to magnify those positive findings, turning it up a few notches in clarity & instrument separation. I was never a expensive cable believer before, but wow, I can really notice a difference. This setup is simply sublime!! A perfect match for the HD800.

Sennheiser is reported to have gone so far as to use listening panels to tune that amp to that headphone. For example, the amp's output impedance of 43 ohms, a rather unusual value, was selected through listening tests.

 

[420277]

thats exactly it   "be happy and enjoy the music" perfic    t

 

[King of Pangaea]

I'm using mine balanced. XLR in from source to HDVD800 and XLR4 out to HD800.

 

[King of Pangaea]

  Are you guys using your 600/800 with balanced or SE cables?

Balanced.  XLR out from source to HDVD800 and XLR4 to HD800.  I'm not sure it makes a difference, but it can't hurt to try for all you can theoretically get.

 

[King of Pangaea]

I just acquired a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and am wondering if I made a good choice.  The DAC sections of both my disc players, Oppo BDP 95 and Marantz SA 8005 seem to outperform the Benchmark. Is there a well recognized axiom that the output from decent DACs from different manufacturers have different synergy with different amps, like the synergy between amp and cans?  If this is so, I have another long and arduous journey in a search for a better match.  If I subsitituted a Schitt Gungnir (or some other decent DAC) for the Benchmark would it make my HDVD800/HD800 sound better?
 
There doesn't seem to be any improvement using the Benchmark, and I have to run SACDs through it from CD layer, not the stereo SACD layer.  I'm wondering if I made a mistake.  On the other hand, maybe I already had just about as good as it gets and would only realize a material improvement by buying a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC or something even more expensive. 
 
Any input out there?  Any theory on this?
 
Thanks

 

[MarkyMark]

It does seem a bit strange that a £600 CD player would outperform the Benchmark DAC2, which is a well respected performer at its price point. 
 
I think you'll find the differences between DACs are subject to the law of diminishing returns quite quickly. So if you'd said you heard no difference then I would say send the product back and stick with one of your other players. But I find it a bit surprising that it would be outperformed. 
 
How do you have it set up? Seems like you aren't using PC audio because of the comment about SACD's. The only way you can get the SACD layer is to have the DSD64 layer ripped to a file using a fairly involved process with certain PS3 models, then use something like Foobar 2000 to play the file using DoP (DSD over PCM).
 
I have no problems with my system but I'm not totally sold on the standard HD800 cable (have the standard and XLR ones). I've gone back to my Cardas Cross XLR (grey sheath).
 
The reason I bought my DAC2 HGC was the all-round facilities - good headphone output, good analogue pre-amp, ability to drive power amp direct for digital sources without an intermediate pre-amp step, remote control etc. It sounds more refined than the DAC1 that it replaced.
 
Have you tried other flagship headphones - perhaps this is the real issue? I have an itch to listen to the new Beyer T1.2 as a complementary can to the HD800 - the original was supposed to go well with the 600/800 amps due to its need for a non-zero output impedance (though it is designed to be paired with the Beyer A1 amp).

 

[HiFiGuy528]

 
I just acquired a Benchmark DAC2 HGC and am wondering if I made a good choice.  The DAC sections of both my disc players, Oppo BDP 95 and Marantz SA 8005 seen to outperform the Benchmark. Is there a well recognized axiom that the output from decent DACs from different manufacturers have different synergy with different amps, like the synergy between amp and cans?  If this is so, I have another long and arduous journey in a search for a better match.  If I subsitituted a Schitt Gungnir (or some other decent DAC) for the Benchmark would it make my HDVD800/HD800 sound better?
 
There doesn't seem to be any improvement using the Benchmark, and I have to fun SACDs through it from CD layer, not the stereo SACD layer.  I'm wondering if I made a mistake.  On the other hand, maybe I already had just about as good as it gets and would only realize a material improvement by buying a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC or something even more expensive. 
 
Any input out there?  Any theory on this?
 
Thanks

 
I had the older SA8004 and thought it was very good for sub $1k. I also own a vintage Denon DCD-1650ar and it beats most high-end DACs in my collection.
 

 

[King of Pangaea]

I also have a Denon DVD-3930 and consider it to be equal in quality and voicing to the Marantz SA8005.  My Oppo BDP95 is more detailed but a bit bass-shy on some recordings. 
 
I think it may be that for all practical purposes, I have about as good as it gets, materially speaking.  Any significant improvement, either in DAC or amp would run into the multi thousands of $.  Listening again today, I think the Benchmark DAC2 is actually the equivalent of the Senn HDVD 800 ie;  this is, functionally what I did was buy another DAC/amp.  In the case of the HDVD800 it is an amp/preamp with a built-in DAC, whereas the  Benchmark is a DAC with a built-in amp/preamp.  It's just a different emphasis on things.  The Senn is a $2000 amp with maybe a $400 DAC built in whereas the Benchmark is a $2000 DAC with a $400 amp/preamp added in.  They are both the same thing, just different marketing and conceptual orientations.  The DAC section of the HDVD800 is just OK, whereas I don['t know about the amp section of the Benchamrk.  I haven't really done any critical listening to it.  My assumption is it is not going to be a better amp than found in the Senn unit.  My point being, I thought I was buying a better DAC than what I might have in my players, but what I really bought was another brand of the same kind of thing, with a difference emphasis.  Although all that varied connectivity is nice to have, I really should have been thinking better and put my money into a DAC only.  Might have seen some improvement, maybe not.
 
I think probably the DAC section of many CD players that perform above their price point is equal to a DAC way above the average price point.  To get anything I could call a material improvement I would have to look at Audio Research, Luxman, Esoteric or somewhere around up in that prioe range.
 
Also of significance is the fact that listening only to CDs I am limited to 16/44.1 and whatever can be extracted from that source.  I haven't gotten around to ripping my CDs to a HD yet and as far as downloading hi-rez files from some site, that is about as expensive as new CDs: I don't intend to replace my 800+ CDs with a hi-rez downloads of most of the same.
 
Just my thinking so far.  The Benchmark was acquired used on eBay so no returning.  I am not sorry I bought it, you buy, you try, you learn. 
 
My question still remains though: Is there a synergy relation between DAC and amp like between amps and cans, or does anybody really know?
 
Maybe I should quit spending money and be happy with what I have, which is very satisfying.   Maybe, just maybe, if I have any sense, I will be satisfied with my current setup as the end of the road.
 
MAYBE.