[exhale]

Measured at 1kHz, yes. If you are listening to an 1 kHz Sinus Wave (apperently that is the only thing people on head fi do these days), then you get an crosstalk at around- 70 or even down to -90 db, bit that is only at 1kHz.

Go to 200Hz or into the high frequencies and a lot of amps go up to -40db

That is absolutely audible at 80db volume listening

But I take the deal. Well meet for an A/B for SE vs Balanced on my Walkman with songs of my choice and if I win, you'll delete your account, right?

As long as it’s blind and volume matched, of course! But see, for that, a lot more than your Walkman would be needed. 2 identical pairs of headphones, one with a SE terminated cable and the other, with a balanced one for starters as well as anything decent for volume/sound/SPL measurements and a relatively quiet environment. Don’t worry, i’ll stop accessing the internet if you



P.S. I’ve done this with a LOT of people such as yourself and after proving them that it’s nothing but psychoacoustics (on this topic specifically), they stopped talking to me. That and the fact that i COULD have left them without a lot of money in/and equipment but i chose not to. Making my point was enough.

Edit: Oh, i never said anything about the same amp. Two amps, one built around SE and the other, around balanced. I can bring both or just the SE one. Also, both of them eq-ed to the same target, as to not recognize the distinct sound signature of each.

 

[Vamp898]

As long as it’s blind and volume matched, of course! But see, for that, a lot more than your Walkman would be needed. 2 identical pairs of headphones, one with a SE terminated cable and the other, with a balanced one for starters as well as anything decent for volume/sound/SPL measurements and a relatively quiet environment. Don’t worry, i’ll stop accessing the internet if you



P.S. I’ve done this with a LOT of people such as yourself and after proving them that it’s nothing but psychoacoustics (on this topic specifically), they stopped talking to me. That and the fact that i COULD have left them without a lot of money in/and equipment but i chose not to. Making my point was enough.

It's much simpler.

You can just record the output and then A/B the recordings with software. You need to be able to switch between the SE and balanced recording instantly.

Switching the headphone takes way to long to make any usable A/B test. You need the possibility of pretty much delay less switching between the sources with 100% identical volume and so on.

By the way, using multitone, a lot of amps drop to -30db crosstalk, at that point it begs the question if an A/B is necessary at all. If someone is not able to hear crosstalk at 50db while listening to music at 80db, there is no need for an amp at all. Am cheap smartphone dongle would do the job as good then

Also over ear headphones are generally nowhere good enough or isolate well enough to make a clear statement. You would need an all BA Monitor set for that.

I can easily distinguish between the WM1A M2 and WM1Z M2 with my IER-M9 in a blind test, something absolutely impossible with the Over Ear headphones I tested so far (including the HD820)

The more factors you have to control around the source, the more unreliable your test gets.

As you need foam tips for professional All BA IEM, the hassle of changing the receiver renders the results pretty much unusable. So physically changing the receiver is not an reliable A/B test for crosstalk.

And yes, of course, if the circumstances need to be controlled that hard, that begs the question if there are any real world differences.

But the question is only if it is audible and not if it matters when your sitting in your chair casually listening to music.

And again, there are a lot more differences as mentioned earlier. Using an sensitive IEM, you don't even have to play music, your instantly hear the difference using an digital amp due to background hiss.which is absolutely, no question, instantly audible.

So if we really would do the blind test with an Earphone of my choice, you wouldn't even have to hit the play button and I could tell you which one is balanced.

Some amps drop to 1/4 of their output power and might no longer be able to drive the headphone at all, that also would render the A/B useless

Those things might not affect the A90, but you made an general statement and not an exklusive one. Given everyone on this planet owns an A90 and nothing else (I don't know the crosstalk data of this device) you might be right, but that is an assumption you can't do

 

[Rob80b]

What a bad suggestion. Sometimes, some of you people amaze me with your lack of knowledge. It doesn’t sound better, it just sounds louder, that’s it.

Theoretically that is correct.....was just discussing this on the Bryston BHA-1 head-amp thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-headphone-amplifier-from-bryston.560499/page-161


My little SMSL HO100 has the same voltage output with the balanced 4.4 and single ended outputs, so really depends on the amp.

Also over ear headphones are generally nowhere good enough or isolate well enough to make a clear statement. You would need an all BA Monitor set for that.

It's much simpler.

You can just record the output and then A/B the recordings with software. You need to be able to switch between the SE and balanced recording instantly.

Maybe with hyper sensitive IEMs and/or portable devices with balanced circuitry a difference is heard, on that I personally cannot comment.

 

[trellus]

There is absolutely zero reason to use SE when you have an balanced amp

Well, almost none - in the case of my 800S, I’m so afraid of pulling out the SE cable that came preconnected, having heard horror stories of people breaking the connector and being myself the clumsiest human on the planet.

I wish they had come unattached and I would have connected the 4.4mm terminated include cable and just used adaptors as necessary, never taking THAT cable off.

 

[Rob80b]

Well, almost none - in the case of my 800S, I’m so afraid of pulling out the SE cable that came preconnected, having heard horror stories of people breaking the connector and being myself the clumsiest human on the planet.

Time to live dangerously.....but sometimes better to live safe than sorry.
It's rare but totally up to you.

Just to add, some 3rd party cables have much more user friendly connectors...the ones on my Fogcity are like that and I'd assume any others that use the same.

Can finally kiss my Sennheiser balanced cable goodbye............

 

[pbui44]

Here is Tycho's Awake album and I hope that your HD820 really shines with this album as it does for me:

 

[fidgeraldo]

I have two 6.3 mm cables for HD 820 for sale (affordable). Completely useless to me.

Cheers!

 

[Rob80b]

Well if you want to get get creative...I converted one of my extra CH800 balanced cables for use with my HD600S2.....

 

[fidgeraldo]

Hmm, I am provenly creative, but I am afraid this is not much creativity; it's more experience. And I never tried that. I said that I would try to make a cable for headphones in the future. But to risk this one, not cheapo : ). BTW I am waiting for HD 660S2 to come. I hope this week.
My wife will use them regularly with a JDS Atom amp while working. I might convert connectors to two-pin and leave a 6.3 mm jack. Who would say that it might not be entirely useless to me : )
If I get the courage to convert one...I'll let you know!
Thanks!

Cheers!

 

[JKTRRT]

I had the Sennheiser HD 660 headphone and I was really disappointed. The didn't sound good compared to my HD 800 and HD 800S. 150 OHM VS 300 OHM

 

[pbui44]

I has the Sennheiser HD 660 headphone and I was really disappointed. The didn't sound good compared to my HD 800 and HD 800S. 150 OHM VS 300 OHM

Check out the HD660S S2, which has a 300 ohm impedance.

So after listening to Tycho's Awake album and hearing so many different ambient details that I never previously from many single tracks (still ), I decided to compare the HD820 with unbalanced 1/4" cable and stock ear pads against my HD250 Linear I (600 ohm) with balanced 4.4mm cable and HD250 Linear II ear pads using this track:



I heard many, and mean MANY, differences between the two, though the differences are mainly miniscule and really are intended to make up a very large amount of the differences in current values for both. Of course, there is a much larger sense of air with the HD820, but also a much clearer understanding of where recording sources were placing and positioning specific sounds. However, the acoustical tracking was much more effortless with the HD820, despite having both connected to my iFi Zen Can Signature MZ99 and all onboard EQ settings off, which is also connected to my Schiit Modius AKM4493. Yes, I did have to become much more critical with the HD250 L1 as a result. All of these differences were apparent throughout the track for both, but once the samples really picked up and really crowded the recording, I became even more impressed with what I heard from the HD820. Starting at around 1:53 with the first bass drop, the "photon laser" samples with the dub bass samples actually had micro-surface-details (the barnacles, as described by someone from way back) and all of these samples kept all of these micro-surface-details as they simultaneously played, revealing multiple layers in a dub step recording! How the hell is that supposed to happen in a closed-back?

But that was not the end of the multi-layer dub demonstration that had me impressed! At around 3:31 with the second bass drop, even more shorter samples played and I could hear all of those micro-surface-details from what seemingly was 4-5 different samples playing in one full second! Yes, the HD250 L1 did play all of these samples correctly and during their intended spot, but at least 80% of these micro-surface-details were not there and the overall sound presentation was much flatter with little to no air playing around the samples as I kept an more critical track between each sample. No, I did not even mention how much arier and layered the quality and quantity of bass was with the HD820 was throughout the entire track! Now I really understand why the headband adjusters on the HD820 do not have holders and not "click" along the surface area of your head, which is to allow tightening or loosening of the headband as the user needs on-the-fly and in real-time. I really hope that this explanation of my comparison makes sense, because the sound and comfort differences between those two current-and-previous closed-back flagships still do not make agreeable sense to me. Anyways, enjoy this track as well and take my comparison with a grain of salt, as this is a 30-year-comparison between the official releases of both flagships.

 

[Vamp898]

I had the Sennheiser HD 660 headphone and I was really disappointed. The didn't sound good compared to my HD 800 and HD 800S. 150 OHM VS 300 OHM

This is completely unrelated to the resistence.

The MDR-Z1R or Meze Empyrean are highly acclaimed and one of the best and they have 64 and 31 Ohm.

The 4500$ Audeze LCD-5 has an resistance of 14 Ohm.

High Ohm count is a thing of the past when amps had a high noise floor and you had to suppress it with a high resistence. But even 3W Amps these days have an Noise floor below 2µV, so inaudible even with very sensitive IEM.

But because Audiophiles are purists and dont like change, high ohm headphones still exist today, but its rather a gimmick than something you need or want. Its for those veterans who know audiophile headphones from the early days.

 

[exhale]

After a VERY lengthy period of research, trial and error and a few sleepless nights, i finally splurged for the HD820s. It was either between them and the Focal Radiance but in the end, since i love how the HD800S sounds (minus the lack of bass), i thought to myself "I'd trade some head stage for some extra bass" (especially since the former is taken care of by the HE1000se) and pulled the plug. I'll reserve any (full) impressions, for now but i think i'll need a different tube amp, since the WA6 doesn't really seem to cut it anymore (regardless if it's with planars or dynamics). The sound is SO MUCH more better coming out of the Violectric V202 than the WA6 (with a pretty penny invested in NOS tubes, no less). This weekend i'll have a friend come by and he'll bring a much more expensive amp than what i have right now (the one with which i compared the Violectric to and decided that it sounds better, to my ears, for a fraction of its price: Trafomatic Head 2).


As far as initial impressions go, the HD820 seem to be a bit more harsh in the upper freqs than the HD800S (I don't have the HD800S anymore but i listened to them ~1 week ago although this might just be my bad memory coupled with way too enthusiastic first impressions). I do have a proper seal (i'm a big headed guy; so big that i had to open the headband all the way to the second to last step and now, it's creaking whenever i take it off/ put it on my head so -1 to build quality, sadly). The comfort is about the same to the HD800S, including the (almost) total lack of clamp force (again, i'm lucky to be a big headed guy). The purpose of a 2nd pair of headphones was to listen to, mainly, trance music (and some sub genres of it), since it's a genre that it's awfully mastered, most of the times. Basically, i needed more bass but with less sibilance (a la HE1000se) but not basshead levels of it. I also wanted something that was devoid of any sort of emphasis on midrange (tinnitus). From an early ~3 hours listening session, i can say the HD820 fits the bill perfectly (i'd dare say it sounds a lot like the IE900, when all conditions are properly met eg. fit, seal, etc.).

I'll return with a proper set of impressions after ~10 days of listening but as far as i'm concerned, if nothing bad happens, physically, with the headphones (knock on wood), they're the perfect complement i have been searching for for the HeKse.

Edit: It's the Head 2, not the Primavera. I don't have friends that rich.

 

[Rob80b]

i finally splurged for the HD820s. It was either between them and the Focal Radiance but in the end, since i love how the HD800S sounds (minus the lack of bass), i thought to myself "I'd trade some head stage for some extra bass"

Well congrats...it was the head stage that sealed the deal for me as well. I had the Elegia so my audition of the HD820 went head to head with the Stelia, the Focal are a good headphone but nothing unique so when I walked away I knew it was a matter of when not if for when I could get the Sennheisers.

As far as initial impressions go, the HD820 seem to be a bit more harsh in the upper freqs than the HD800S

Interesting...the couple here also sort of mentioned a similar finding. (I used subtitles, so hopefully the translation was correct). I will double check as I have both phones.
RE: 7:20 Louis Amstrong

 

[fidgeraldo]

What do you think about how much different cables matter? There is a complex debate. Some say yes, others no, especially when digital cables are involved.
What about ethernet/LAN cable? Does it make any change in sound? I will repeat it, I am no audiophile, I am a hardcore music lover, and I appreciate the sound greatly.

The bass in HD 820...not enough of it? I think there is plenty, even more. But it's like with food; some people love adding salt even before trying the dish.
I don't get how it is even possible, but those people have different tolerance, and it's just the right amount for them. The same is with sound or anything else.

I have one amp/DAC setup where I have hooked HD 820. It's Topping A90/E70 (I was told by one member here that it is a waste of money : ). I thought it was terrific. Since I am not very much fond of too much bass. I like the bass to be tight and clear. Strong, yes, but never that rumbles and makes sort of distortion. And with this combo, I had it almost perfect. But the situation was a bit flat, sharp, almost too high, and not for long listening/enjoying. But anyway, I don't listen to music with headphones for more than an hour; I simply can't find the time. Conversely, my speakers are on practically the whole day while I work.

Another thing is, as much as I appreciate the sound, I love the design. That is what I do in life. Wow, that Munich Hi-fi fair, it's a feast for the eyes. Visuals are my thing. So I am hooked on design and "inside architecture", too.
So that's where it comes with the story about cables and myself. I just love cables, visually: ). I was always impressed in the past by the systems that people I knew had. One friend had a studio (music/recording etc.) next to my atelier. There was a bunch of stuff there: mixers, instruments, and many cables...

So, I am not investing much money in expensive cables, but I would buy, let's say, well-known entry-level brands. I read a lot of opinions, and especially here on Head-fi, there is a thread about LAN/ethernet cables that I thought I might learn something about, but instead of that, I felt more like vomiting than enjoying while reading and learning. Some people, it seems, have serious problems.

But anyway, since I have an affection for cables...I thought I would change my older cat 5e (if I am not mistaken) with new Supra cat 8 cables. I didn't expect too much. They look nice and nicely made...but to my surprise, they make the music/gear sound different!

I am not writing about all gears that those cables impacted, just HD 820. Those cables make HD 820 sound deeper (in a good way) and a bit softer, which is good for me since that combo I mentioned was sharper. The bass is definitely bigger! So I didn't have to EQ anything to add bass; I just added different cables. Wow. Digital cables. Some would say that's nonsense! It's not possible, but it did. I almost have a bit too much bass with HD 820 than I prefer...but it's good, quality bass, which I would not complain about.

I enjoy the music now even more with HD 820...and there is plenty of bass!

Supra Cat 8 cables

Cheers!

P.S. If it's a placebo, I don't have anything against it if it goes in a positive way! But it's not a placebo; the difference is huge...If I am imagining things, then it's probably a hallucination rather than a placebo : )