[sheldaze]

I truly appreciate all the insights and listening impressions. I hope those of you lucky enough to have these are also spending some quality, non-critical listening time just sitting back and enjoying the music.
 
I have read enough to know these are TOTL headphones. And as such, I'll definitely need to audition them for my own quirky sense of hearing 

 

 

[sinae]

hahaha wow at that price.. common for 2200 you can build yourself a pair of speaker with raal ribbon and magnesium midrange or accuton ceramic midrange..
 
let's hope tons of other headphones beat them to the pulp.. like the stax sr-l700

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

   
Thanks for posting your measurements!  
 
Just to be clear, I'm not in the "measurements are all that matters" camp and neither are you, but I really appreciate your taking the time to do this for us.
 
Here's a tweaked version of your image that's easier to read:
 

 

And thanks to James-uk for posting his HD800 and HD800s factory measurements:
 

Great to hear all of the new impressions. There is nothing like new toy day  I know I'm fairly old (42) but I just don't hear the peak with my HD800. When I use Audacity to generate different frequencies on my Macbook I hear a flat response all the way to about 7 khz then I hear the loudness dipping between 7 and 9 Khz before rising strongly @ around 9.5-10KHz.
Im worried that some people will look at the graph above and think that the 6KHz peak is a fault but for many people (especially above age  35) the rise is what you need to hear a flat response. The ear is really sensitive @ speech frequencies hence the dip around 3-4Khz to compensate for this. Then the rise above 4kHz is required to counteract the ears natural rolloff above this value. The older you are the greater the roll off. Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800. If the original HD800 has a fault @ 6kHz then they had all the time in the world to rectify this when the headphone was first designed (didn't it take many years and resources to design the HD800/ panel of experts involved?). I have a strong feeling that all experts involved were 35 years old + and indeed when the HD800 was first conceived headphones were not a young persons game like they are now. The original HD800 would have been designed for a target market of 30 years +  who had the funds to cough up a large amount of $ for the product. So what am I trying to say here...don't freak out that your HD800 has been superseded. The HD800 may be more suitable for some and the HD800S more so for others. Do your own test with an easily acquired signal generator (Audacity is a good one and free I think) and find out if what you currently have suits your ears or not.

 

[JamieMcC]

  Great to hear all of the new impressions. There is nothing like new toy day  I know I'm fairly old (42) but I just don't hear the peak with my HD800. When I use Audacity to generate different frequencies on my Macbook I hear a flat response all the way to about 7 khz then I hear the loudness dipping between 7 and 9 Khz before rising strongly @ around 9.5-10KHz.
Im worried that some people will look at the graph above and think that the 6KHz peak is a fault but for many people (especially above age  35) the rise is what you need to hear a flat response. The ear is really sensitive @ speech frequencies hence the dip around 3-4Khz to compensate for this. Then the rise above 4kHz is required to counteract the ears natural rolloff above this value. The older you are the greater the roll off. Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800. If the original HD800 has a fault @ 6kHz then they had all the time in the world to rectify this when the headphone was first designed (didn't it take many years and resources to design the HD800/ panel of experts involved?). I have a strong feeling that all experts involved were 35 years old + and indeed when the HD800 was first conceived headphones were not a young persons game like they are now. The original HD800 would have been designed for a target market of 30 years +  who had the funds to cough up a large amount of $ for the product. So what am I trying to say here...don't freak out that your HD800 has been superseded. The HD800 may be more suitable for some and the HD800S more so for others. Do your own test with an easily acquired signal generator (Audacity is a good one and free I think) and find out if what you currently have suits your ears or not.

+1

 

[whirlwind]

 

  Great to hear all of the new impressions. There is nothing like new toy day  I know I'm fairly old (42) but I just don't hear the peak with my HD800. When I use Audacity to generate different frequencies on my Macbook I hear a flat response all the way to about 7 khz then I hear the loudness dipping between 7 and 9 Khz before rising strongly @ around 9.5-10KHz.
Im worried that some people will look at the graph above and think that the 6KHz peak is a fault but for many people (especially above age  35) the rise is what you need to hear a flat response. The ear is really sensitive @ speech frequencies hence the dip around 3-4Khz to compensate for this. Then the rise above 4kHz is required to counteract the ears natural rolloff above this value. The older you are the greater the roll off. Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800. If the original HD800 has a fault @ 6kHz then they had all the time in the world to rectify this when the headphone was first designed (didn't it take many years and resources to design the HD800/ panel of experts involved?). I have a strong feeling that all experts involved were 35 years old + and indeed when the HD800 was first conceived headphones were not a young persons game like they are now. The original HD800 would have been designed for a target market of 30 years +  who had the funds to cough up a large amount of $ for the product. So what am I trying to say here...don't freak out that your HD800 has been superseded. The HD800 may be more suitable for some and the HD800S more so for others. Do your own test with an easily acquired signal generator (Audacity is a good one and free I think) and find out if what you currently have suits your ears or not.

+1

+2

 

[PCWar]

+2

+3

 

[Jawed]

Apart from IE 800 and HD 800 S, what other headphones have used Helmholtz resonance?

 

[shabta]

  Great to hear all of the new impressions. There is nothing like new toy day  I know I'm fairly old (42) but I just don't hear the peak with my HD800. When I use Audacity to generate different frequencies on my Macbook I hear a flat response all the way to about 7 khz then I hear the loudness dipping between 7 and 9 Khz before rising strongly @ around 9.5-10KHz.
Im worried that some people will look at the graph above and think that the 6KHz peak is a fault but for many people (especially above age  35) the rise is what you need to hear a flat response. The ear is really sensitive @ speech frequencies hence the dip around 3-4Khz to compensate for this. Then the rise above 4kHz is required to counteract the ears natural rolloff above this value. The older you are the greater the roll off. Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800. If the original HD800 has a fault @ 6kHz then they had all the time in the world to rectify this when the headphone was first designed (didn't it take many years and resources to design the HD800/ panel of experts involved?). I have a strong feeling that all experts involved were 35 years old + and indeed when the HD800 was first conceived headphones were not a young persons game like they are now. The original HD800 would have been designed for a target market of 30 years +  who had the funds to cough up a large amount of $ for the product. So what am I trying to say here...don't freak out that your HD800 has been superseded. The HD800 may be more suitable for some and the HD800S more so for others. Do your own test with an easily acquired signal generator (Audacity is a good one and free I think) and find out if what you currently have suits your ears or not.

I think you make an excellent point that due to the fact that we all hear a bit differently (age, biology, what we think good sound sounds like) some will like the HD800 better than its younger bro. Actually it makes it harder when I was going back and forth between the two to give a decent eval, because I am more used to the HD800 sound and the slight loss of air around instruments in the youngster is, at first, a point in favor of the HD800 (even if that air is due to the extra treble energy). But there is no evidence to suggest that the new headphones were designed by younger engineers. I think the far more likely theory is that the genre of music that audiophiles listen to has changed a lot, which is due to a shift in the age demographic as well as the fact that headphones have a much broader appeal now, then when the HD800 was released. And finally there has been so much written about the 6khz resonance peak. Tyll even did his big sound series using a modded HD800. So it makes sense that Senn would release their own mod. But yes the HD800 is still either the best or second best dynamic headphone on the market, so no need for anyone to freak.
 
Also, although my ears are old, I could easily hear that old Yes albums sounded less grainy and not as distorted when the tracks became over modulated on the HD800 S. 

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

  I think you make an excellent point that due to the fact that we all hear a bit differently (age, biology, what we think good sound sounds like) some will like the HD800 better than its younger bro. Actually it makes it harder when I was going back and forth between the two to give a decent eval, because I am more used to the HD800 sound and the slight loss of air around instruments in the youngster is, at first, a point in favor of the HD800 (even if that air is due to the extra treble energy). But there is no evidence to suggest that the new headphones were designed by younger engineers. I think the far more likely theory is that the genre of music that audiophiles listen to has changed a lot, which is due to a shift in the age demographic as well as the fact that headphones have a much broader appeal now, then when the HD800 was released. And finally there has been so much written about the 6khz resonance peak. Tyll even did his big sound series using a modded HD800. So it makes sense that Senn would release their own mod. But yes the HD800 is still either the best or second best dynamic headphone on the market, so no need for anyone to freak.
 
Also, although my ears are old, I could easily hear that old Yes albums sounded less grainy and not as distorted when the tracks became over modulated on the HD800 S. 

Hi Shabta, never said the new headphones were designed by younger engineers   Anyway enjoy the opportunity to sample the differences between the two headphones. I love to pinpoint the differences between similar pieces of equipment so I am quite jealous. Cheers.

 

[shabta]

Continuing on with more impressions...
 
I am still listening to more modern genres of music, since those were the one's I found somewhat problematic with the classic HD800. 
 
Last night I tried some hip hop and electronica. In particular, I was especially interested in the bass response. On the Yes and David Gilmour I mentioned earlier, it was hard for me to tell.
 
But boy, on hip hop it was much easier. Kendrick Lamar's recent masterpiece, To Pimp a Butterfly, just sounds overall better on the HD800 S. Other albums I played were the recent release by Colleen, Captain of None and Jamie XX, in color. I always liked the bass on the HD800, articulate and extended, but honestly it lacks a little in the slam department. 
 
Kendrick Lamar's Wesley Theory, just hits harder and seems to go a little lower on the youngster. Maybe it is because the youngster sounds warmer than the classic all I can say is on Hip Hop, hands down I would grab the S every time. 
 
On electronica it isn't as clear. For example on Colleen's I'm Kin. The sense of air around the singers voice is seductive and in general the track sounds slightly more open on the classic. But the thump of the bass is deeper and fatter on the youngster. Similarly on Jamie XX Gosh, the way the highly processed vocals jump out of the mix on the HD800 is cool. But again the track hits deeper and warmer on the youngster.
 
I think that the very nature of highly processed modern music makes it hard to say which headphone is more accurate. Unless you are the person who created it, I don't know how you can say for sure what it should sound like. On both headphones the presentation was excellent. On the more bassy tracks I would probably go for the youngster. 
 
So far I would say things for me tilt slightly towards the youngster. On some tracks I felt like I could hear a little more deeply into the music with the classic, probably due to what some call the hotter treble energy. It was actually really nice on very well recorded music. But on older or less good recordings I would definitely give the nod to the youngster. Overall I prefer the warmth and bass response of the youngster over it's sometime more revealing older brother. 
 
Next I will do some classical stuff and some acoustic Jazz. There I am not sure which way things will fall. While acoustic albums often have almost as much studio wizardry and processing of the sound as their electric cousins, I have a much better idea what acoustic instruements are supposed to sound like, especially since I have guitars and a baby grand lying around the house. I have an emotional bias towards the classic, it was hearing piano on the HD800 that originally seduced me.

 

[John Culter]

  Great to hear all of the new impressions. There is nothing like new toy day  I know I'm fairly old (42) but I just don't hear the peak with my HD800. When I use Audacity to generate different frequencies on my Macbook I hear a flat response all the way to about 7 khz then I hear the loudness dipping between 7 and 9 Khz before rising strongly @ around 9.5-10KHz.
Im worried that some people will look at the graph above and think that the 6KHz peak is a fault but for many people (especially above age  35) the rise is what you need to hear a flat response. The ear is really sensitive @ speech frequencies hence the dip around 3-4Khz to compensate for this. Then the rise above 4kHz is required to counteract the ears natural rolloff above this value. The older you are the greater the roll off. Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800. If the original HD800 has a fault @ 6kHz then they had all the time in the world to rectify this when the headphone was first designed (didn't it take many years and resources to design the HD800/ panel of experts involved?). I have a strong feeling that all experts involved were 35 years old + and indeed when the HD800 was first conceived headphones were not a young persons game like they are now. The original HD800 would have been designed for a target market of 30 years +  who had the funds to cough up a large amount of $ for the product. So what am I trying to say here...don't freak out that your HD800 has been superseded. The HD800 may be more suitable for some and the HD800S more so for others. Do your own test with an easily acquired signal generator (Audacity is a good one and free I think) and find out if what you currently have suits your ears or not.

This sounds very interesting.. Do you think the Capitol Studios engineers who does development for Ultimate Ears are maybe younger than the Sennheiser HD800 team? Because the Ultimate Ears Reference Remastered is noticeable less sharp in the higher mids and high frequencies D
No seriously - I'm 33 so can't judge how my ears will serve 10-15 years later, but original HD800 was hurting my ears with that 6kHz 'spike'. Now with HD800S this is MUCH better and I can actually use them for producing and studio work. But they are still too sharp compared to JH Audio Layla / Ultimate Ears Reference Remastered custom in-ears. They seems both more balanced to my ears when compared directly with HD800S. There is still some additional brightness, or let's say harsh higher mids in HD800S. But sure it is more like apples and oranges to compare over ear cans with custom in-ears.

 

[Nicklikesmusic]

 
This sounds very interesting.. Do you think the Capitol Studios engineers who does development for Ultimate Ears are maybe younger than the Sennheiser HD800 team? Because the Ultimate Ears Reference Remastered is noticeable less sharp in the higher mids and high frequencies D
No seriously - I'm 33 so can't judge how my ears will serve 10-15 years later, but original HD800 was hurting my ears with that 6kHz 'spike'. Now with HD800S this is MUCH better and I can actually use them for producing and studio work. But they are still too sharp compared to JH Audio Layla / Ultimate Ears Reference Remastered custom in-ears. They seems both more balanced to my ears when compared directly with HD800S. There is still some additional brightness, or let's say harsh higher mids in HD800S. But sure it is more like apples and oranges to compare over ear cans with custom in-ears.

No idea, but if you were a company and had some people complaining about a treble spike then it would be foolish not to fulfil a need and make more money at the same time .
 
The real winners will be all parties  if / when the HD850 is released. HD800/ 800S are the same basic headphone , slightly different sound signature which means that  Mr Sennheiser will be listening closely to our feedback over the next year or so in order to determine exactly what the majority want for its next high end product.

 

[wink]

QuoteCWar

+2

+3

 

+4⁴

 

[lukeap69]

+4⁴

Country code of UK?

 

[hekeli]

  Helmholtz resonators and acoustical absorbers have been around for probably over a 100 years, they are nothing new and I guarantee that Sennheiser had this expertise when designing the original HD800.

 
Funny how the best minds on the internet never though of using a resonator for years, despite measuring, simulating, analyzing and theorizing about the 6khz peak to death. Having "expertise" or knowledge doesn't mean one will realise to apply something. Sennheiser admittedly tested things like the Anax mod which they didn't like, so if they had the "expertise", why didn't they do resonator right away? Now everyones like, why didn't we realise to do this, insert a few friggin cut straws there and the mod community is buzzing again..