[talan7]

Maybe the balanced cable gives the biggest sonic improvement, or it, along with the minor changes add up to "a little" better. When they said it sounded "a little better", was that with the balanced cable and that without it, it's not even a little better. I think regardless, we're just talking small improvements anyway as the regular 800 is already top notch and there isn't much to improve on.

 

[MacedonianHero]

A smoother treble reponse and better bass extension is enough to warrant a HD600/650 analogy

 
Exactly my point! Thanks!

 

[jibzilla]

Maybe the balanced cable gives the biggest sonic improvement, or it, along with the minor changes add up to "a little" better. When they said it sounded "a little better", was that with the balanced cable and that without it, it's not even a little better. I think regardless, we're just talking small improvements anyway as the regular 800 is already top notch and there isn't much to improve on.

The best amps for the hd800 are SE. Apex Teton and Pinnacle. For those wanting to achieve the best for hd800 balanced is not the way to go. Now ECP, DNA, Gsxmk2 then you have something worthwhile.  

 

[defbear]

If you have been listening to your hd800's single ended and then go to a balanced rig I have found balanced sounds better every time with every headphone. So there nyah! Sennheiser hopes you will go balanced and then see how much better the hd800s truly is. Senny seem very cynical. Instead of creating new products they are hedging their bets in every way. This is horrid customer service. They need to dump the hd800 or create a new headphone. Not this talk out of both sides of their mouth political nonsense.

 

[kapanak]

If you have been listening to your hd800's single ended and then go to a balanced rig I have found balanced sounds better every time with every headphone. So there nyah! Sennheiser hopes you will go balanced and then see how much better the hd800s truly is. Senny seem very cynical. Instead of creating new products they are hedging their bets in every way. This is horrid customer service. They need to dump the hd800 or create a new headphone. Not this talk out of both sides of their mouth political nonsense.

Are you simply saying it sounds better because it is louder and you get a higher dynamic range? After matching the volume between single ended and balanced outputs, and doing back and forth, I have truly not heard the significant step up in sound quality people describe when using balanced cables with my HD800 out of the Auralic Taurus MKII or other balanced amps (except Ragnarok, where SE sounded noticeably worse). So my personal impression is that balanced simply sounds louder, leading to the better dynamic range people seem to hear. That's my opinion.

Of course this has nothing to do with balanced or differential amplifier topology and balanced DAC output etc etc. Just what I hear from the same source on the same amp balanced vs single ended.

 

[Dadracer]

 

If you have been listening to your hd800's single ended and then go to a balanced rig I have found balanced sounds better every time with every headphone. So there nyah! Sennheiser hopes you will go balanced and then see how much better the hd800s truly is. Senny seem very cynical. Instead of creating new products they are hedging their bets in every way. This is horrid customer service. They need to dump the hd800 or create a new headphone. Not this talk out of both sides of their mouth political nonsense.

Are you simply saying it sounds better because it is louder and you get a higher dynamic range? After matching the volume between single ended and balanced outputs, and doing back and forth, I have truly not heard the significant step up in sound quality people describe when using balanced cables with my HD800 out of the Auralic Taurus MKII or other balanced amps (except Ragnarok, where SE sounded noticeably worse). So my personal impression is that balanced simply sounds louder, leading to the better dynamic range people seem to hear. That's my opinion.

Of course this has nothing to do with balanced or differential amplifier topology and balanced DAC output etc etc. Just what I hear from the same source on the same amp balanced vs single ended.

Your opinion is as valid as anyone else. In my experience and with the HD800 via Taurus mk2 I found an improvement in the sound stage with balanced vs single ended cables which was enough for me to keep them. But that's just my thoughts. Oh and yes and even allowing for the loudness factor.

 

[shabta]

This site says 1599 euros and that they will have them available in December.
 
http://www.fair-kaeuflich.de/product_info.php?language=de&refID=1&currency=EUR&info=p9931_Sennheiser-HD-800S-Dynamischer-Referenz-Kopfh-rer-mit-CH-800S.html&gclid=CMzng6KAg8kCFQrpwgodo5gDWQ

 

[kapanak]

  Your opinion is as valid as anyone else. In my experience and with the HD800 via Taurus mk2 I found an improvement in the sound stage with balanced vs single ended cables which was enough for me to keep them. But that's just my thoughts. Oh and yes and even allowing for the loudness factor.

That's something I did not listen for. I have both the single ended stock cable, and a balanced Norne Draug 2 cable, as well as the Taurus MKII on hand. You are probably right about the increase in soundstage in balanced mode on this amp. Not sure if you've ever noticed this, but if you try and decrease the volume all the way down, you can still hear a VERY quiet sound output still. I think part of the increased soundstage, especially in balanced mode with the Taurus MKII might be some sort of linear, hardware crossfeed that's happening as part of its topology. Can't put my finger on it.

 

[Dadracer]

That's something I did not listen for. I have both the single ended stock cable, and a balanced Norne Draug 2 cable, as well as the Taurus MKII on hand. You are probably right about the increase in soundstage in balanced mode on this amp. Not sure if you've ever noticed this, but if you try and decrease the volume all the way down, you can still hear a VERY quiet sound output still. I think part of the increased soundstage, especially in balanced mode with the Taurus MKII might be some sort of linear, hardware crossfeed that's happening as part of its topology. Can't put my finger on it.

I cannot easily source replacement cables unless I buy them, but I could with the Sennheiser own versions. So that meant the only difference between the cables was balanced vs SE and the cable itself would be the same. As I say allowing for the loudness I could still hear a difference on sound staging which is an important quality for me and one of my main reasons for getting the HD800s in the first place. I haven't tried this volume/crossfeed issue you mention but will try it later in the day as I'm just listening to my laptop based system now.     

 

[Currawong]

Amps that are designed to be used in balanced mode are almost always going to sound different, usually worse, in single-ended mode. It has nothing to do with that they are balanced vs. all amps out there that aren't, but because the amp is designed to be used with the balanced output. By using a balanced amp from the single-ended output, you're not using half the circuit. It would not be unlike if I removed half the circuit in my non-balanced amp then had a listen -- it would likely sound worse too. You could build a balanced CMOY for your HD800s (or the HD800S) if you wanted (it has been done) and I don't think it would sound any better than much other than a regular CMOY. 
 
When an amp designer makes an amp, a balanced circuit is just one of many design choices, alongside whether to use negative feedback, tubes, a hybrid circuit or any other such thing. The reason that balanced designs get a lot of attention, secondly only to tube amps, is because we have to use a different cable with our headphones, in this case, Sennheiser are offering their own cable, which I don't know to be any different to the regular cable than the different plug on the end.

 

[jibzilla]

If you have been listening to your hd800's single ended and then go to a balanced rig I have found balanced sounds better every time with every headphone. So there nyah! Sennheiser hopes you will go balanced and then see how much better the hd800s truly is. Senny seem very cynical. Instead of creating new products they are hedging their bets in every way. This is horrid customer service. They need to dump the hd800 or create a new headphone. Not this talk out of both sides of their mouth political nonsense.

I have no balanced option for my Teton. As I said before it and the Pinnacle are SE ONLY. Nor is there a balanced amp that can compete with it, at least with hd800's, I would also say Lcd-x as well but that is a bit debatable. I do agree with you that most amps with balanced and SE options sound better with balanced. Why I thought the schiit mojo was a very "smart" amp to make, being balanced only. 

 

[ying]

LOLOL!!! 

 

 

[Amleth]

...in this case, Sennheiser are offering their own cable, which I don't know to be any different to the regular cable than the different plug on the end.

 
Assuming the same cable inside, I don't see why they didn't simply offer the balanced cable alone, plus a nice solid 4-pin to 6.5mm stereo adapter, which would also address both setups just as well without so much hardware duplication. Well, other than increasing perceived value and making it easier to "justify" adding a several hundred dollar markup, because extra cable!
 
I'm a bit worried where the pricing is going to shake out as a result, but we'll see soon enough, I guess...

 

[Deftone]

Seriously, get a Vali/Val 2, Bottlehead and a decent DAC starting from the Modi 2 and you'll be away from the competitors in its price range. Like far away. 

Looks at desk. Vali, modi, 650. Check!!

But yes I agree when going one on one with a burson + lcd3 the price performance seems like a slap in the face in comparison

 

[jagwap]

Because Head-fi

^ This