[UezeU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif No sir, you don't know those headphones until you see them and touch them in person. The pictures and videos are nothing more than just preview, and should not be used as criticisms of design since they are highly misleading. I think you know better since you studied design. And I must say you are also contradicting yourself. You just said "This thread has never been about the sound quality of the HD800 but strictly about its design and build quality." and you said "couldn't find any comments about unwanted resonances caused by the frame." in other post. I must confess that I really do not have any respects to posts made by people who never owned and seen those headphones (SA5000, HD800.) It seems those who actually own HD800 have little or no compliants about design. That tells something. Again, my best advice about this issue is "stop whining and go see yourself". Unless this happens your comments are worth nothing. Finally, not to mention, HD800 sound much, much better as well.

I don't know why your comment bothers me so much as it was not directed towards myself...

I see why I have no respect for your opinion now. You are a Senn fanboy that is part of Team Senn. You are the Fox News of the headphone forum. (not all of Team Senn, just this guy)

 

[paulb09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saintalfonzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sony did extensive testing using a framework of Godiva Chocolate as the primary material in the construction of the SA5000, but the occurance of sympathetic resonation was too great due to the characteristics of the drivers used.

Not to mention the framework got eaten by test customers before they even tried the sound.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I guess I am in the minority. The SA5000 looked good to me(for the price I don't think you could expect much more). It looked like a cheaper version of the qualia. It definitely looks better than the HD800 to me, but again what would I rather have? The HD800 or the SA5000? Dumb question...

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was stressed multiple times already that this thread is about build quality and design only, let's not bring SQ issue into it. And speaking of SQ it's not that cut and clear universal love and some are unloading them already 'cause where "underwhelmed" by the sound.

Have you had a chance to spend some personal time with the 800's, Andrew?

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulb09 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to mention the framework got eaten by test customers before they even tried the sound.

Melts in your mouth and not on your head!

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was stressed multiple times already that this thread is about build quality and design only, let's not bring SQ issue into it. And speaking of SQ it's not that cut and clear universal love and some are unloading them already 'cause where "underwhelmed" by the sound.

So you say "let's not bring SQ issue into it", then in the next paragraph bring SQ into it. Extraordinary! Well played, old boy (I mean that as a compliment, BTW).

Sorry, but ultimately, how can you not consider SQ since:

a) The form, materials, construction and, to some extent, styling impact on SQ (and visa versa).

b) With headphones, SQ is ultimately the bloody point. (In my mind comfort next, looks third.)

c) SQ is an important component of value, so if you are going to bring price or value into the issue, SQ comes with it.

I guess we could all dream about the ultimate heaadphone we would build in our fantasy. Hell, for me, you could build the HD-800 out of diamond encrusted titanium for all I care if you could assure me that:

a) It would sound as good
b) Would be as sturdy longterm
c) Would be as comfortable to wear
d) Would not go up in price

So the HD-800 is a phone built to a price with SQ as a prime consideration. The SA-5000 was built different, some may say better (though I like it OK, I generally don't) was cheaper, but in my view didn't deliver sonically. The Qualia is, I believe, built better than the HD-800 from what I have seen. Even assuming it is as good sonically (again, I don't know), it was $3300 (the one on audiogon is listed at $4000 plus, BTW), which would grade out to $1900 for it's enhanced quality and build. Is it worth it? That's for you to decide.

Considering it's SQ, reasonable build quality and price, I believe Sennheiser did a good job. I would like nothing more than for someone to come along and do better. Until then...

 

[sunneebear]

Why is it that when the price of the HD800 is brought up people say the Qualia and R10 is sooo much more expensive.
Well duh...they're no longer made.


Quote:

Originally Posted by k3oxkjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you say "let's not bring SQ issue into it", then in the next paragraph bring SQ into it. Extraordinary! Well played, old boy (I mean that as a compliment, BTW). Sorry, but ultimately, how can you not consider SQ since: a) The form, materials, construction and, to some extent, styling impact on SQ (and visa versa). b) With headphones, SQ is ultimately the bloody point. (In my mind comfort next, looks third.) c) SQ is an important component of value, so if you are going to bring price or value into the issue, SQ comes with it. I guess we could all dream about the ultimate heaadphone we would build in our fantasy. Hell, for me, you could build the HD-800 out of diamond encrusted titanium for all I care if you could assure me that: a) It would sound as good b) Would be as sturdy longterm c) Would be as comfortable to wear d) Would not go up in price So the HD-800 is a phone built to a price with SQ as a prime consideration. The SA-5000 was built different, some may say better (though I like it OK, I generally don't) was cheaper, but in my view didn't deliver sonically. The Qualia is, I believe, built better than the HD-800 from what I have seen. Even assuming it is as good sonically (again, I don't know), it was $3300 (the one on audiogon is listed at $4000 plus, BTW), which would grade out to $1900 for it's enhanced quality and build. Is it worth it? That's for you to decide. Considering it's SQ, reasonable build quality and price, I believe Sennheiser did a good job. I would like nothing more than for someone to come along and do better. Until then...

If you put cost into your equation then the whole curve is thrown off.

When the Qualia 010 came out and cost $2400 the average audio nut couldn't afford it. Then came the SA5000 with trickle down technology from the 010 and cost $699 ($400 street). Most people still couldn't touch it. Come on people, its the baby 010 for 2 grand less. They just stuck to their $100 cans and were perfectly happy.

Now its the HD800's turn and the select few are saying the majority are putting it down and they haven't even listened to it yet. Also it is so much better than the SA5000. Well it better be for that price but most will never know because hey, its two months rent for most people.

Sonically, the 800 must be pretty good but that's were everyone's taste varies. Already I have read post of people not liking the sound of the 800. I have made a few mistakes listening to fan boys of Beyers, Ultrsones and Grados.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why is it that when the price of the HD800 is brought up people say the Qualia and R10 is sooo much more expensive. Well duh...they're no longer made.

Not really a good example as both were more expensive when they debuted.

Anyways, I don't expect someone who is living paycheck to paycheck to understand why I think the HD800, K1000, and HE60 were bargains upon their original release date, but if you listen to the more expensive offerings than maybe you will understand why. For around $1000 to get you in the top tier range(same range as other phones that cost twice as much), that to me is a bargain. I understand that, that sounds ludicrous to many.

I don't expect many people to understand that the Eddie Current ZD is a bargain, as it cost over $2000. Still it performs on the level or better of plenty amps that are over $4000.

No different for any other hobby. I don't expect someone who lives paycheck to paycheck to understand that the Nissan 370z is a bargain because it offers nearly the same performance of a Porsche for half the price. To someone who drives a honda, it won't seem like a bargain at all. For someone who has experienced very good performance cars will at the very least understand it, regardless if they like it or not.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif No sir, you don't know those headphones until you see them and touch them in person. The pictures and videos are nothing more than just preview, and should not be used as criticisms of design since they are highly misleading. I think you know better since you studied design. And I must say you are also contradicting yourself. You just said "This thread has never been about the sound quality of the HD800 but strictly about its design and build quality." and you said "couldn't find any comments about unwanted resonances caused by the frame." in other post. I must confess that I really do not have any respects to posts made by people who never owned and seen those headphones (SA5000, HD800.) It seems those who actually own HD800 have little or no compliants about design. That tells something. Again, my best advice about this issue is "stop whining and go see yourself". Unless this happens your comments are worth nothing. Finally, not to mention, HD800 sound much, much better as well.

I ask you to please not be rude. This is a public forum and we must conduct ourselves accordingly. If you continue to make personal attacks, I shall notify the forum moderators. Thank you. This thread is about design. It might be an issue you care about or not, but design is everywhere and there is good and poor design. I have studied industrial design at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. It is an issue I truly care about and I don't believe that the HD800 passes muster. You may disagree which is fine but please address your comments to the issue at hand. I live in New York City and have access to every headphone ever made. I have been attending every high-end audio show in New York for the last 15 years and I also have access to many brilliant audiophile businesses. This thread is not an attack on Sennheiser. It is a thoughtful and considered criticism of the Sennheiser HD800. You do not know which headphones I own and which I do not. There is no reason for me to have to justify myself here, but I do own the Sennheiser IE8 and I think that they are excellent universal IEM's.

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why is it that when the price of the HD800 is brought up people say the Qualia and R10 is sooo much more expensive. Well duh...they're no longer made.

What does this have to do with anything? The WERE made and did sell. They are still available on the used market at more than they cost new. A R-10 just sold on Audiogon and a Qualia is available. And there are new headphones on the market that are still in production that cost more than HD-800. So?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you put cost into your equation then the whole curve is thrown off. When the Qualia 010 came out and cost $2400 the average audio nut couldn't afford it. Then came the SA5000 with trickle down technology from the 010 and cost $699 ($400 street). Most people still couldn't touch it. Come on people, its the baby 010 for 2 grand less. They just stuck to their $100 cans and were perfectly happy

Of course, hi-end anything is a niche market. We aren't talking about most people here on Head-fi. I think people who are interested enough to be on Head-fi are willing to spend more than $100 on cans and most did so, of many, many different models. But if $100 is what you can afford (or justify), yes, make the best of it. I would never say that someone should spend money they don't have.

I am fortunate enough (and am appreciative of the fact) that I can spend some money on my interests. So I look at the HD-800 as a "baby R-10" for multiple thousands less (I would still rather have a R-10, though).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now its the HD800's turn and the select few are saying the majority are putting it down and they haven't even listened to it yet. Also it is so much better than the SA5000. Well it better be for that price but most will never know because hey, its two months rent for most people..

I don't think the "majority" are "putting them down". And those who do put it down are entitled to their opinion. But when people without direct experience are putting them down, I think people who do have experience with them pointing the fact out and expressing their opinion is also fair game.

And one of the wonderful things about Head-fi is that, if you want to, you can go to the meets and hear, look at and touch just about any headphone you are interested in. And I have heard many a headphone at dealers in my time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunneebear /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sonically, the 800 must be pretty good but that's were everyone's taste varies. Already I have read post of people not liking the sound of the 800. I have made a few mistakes listening to fan boys of Beyers, Ultrsones and Grados.

Sorry to hear that. It's always a good idea to listen for yourself first if you can. One of the reasons I bought the HD-800 was the generous return policies. And I was more than willing to send them back if they did not live up to my expectations. The reviews here are generally good and it's fun to discuss this stuff, but ultimately, I say judge for yourself, don't take anyone's opinion as gospel. Including (especially?

) mine. But especially those who have little or no direct experience with the product...

 

[UezeU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by k3oxkjo /img/forum/go_quote.gif But especially those who have little or no direct experience with the product...

How does this affect our ability to evaluate the design and the materials used in the construction of a headphone?

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by UezeU /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does this affect our ability to evaluate the design and the materials used in the construction of a headphone?

Greatly if you have never touched it, worn it, or looked at it in person. How can you accurately evaluate the design of a headphone without being able to see, feel, or wear it? This is in regard to any headphone.

 

[davidhunternyc]

If the HD800 is the new acid-washed jeans, then the Sony R10 is the Japanese equivalent of hand-made shuttle loomed jeans made with dye from fermented indigo leaves. Both headphones are phenomenal sounding yet the R10 is art.

 

[saintalfonzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the HD800 is the new acid-washed jeans, then the Sony R10 is the Japanese equivalent of hand-made shuttle loomed jeans made with dye from real indigo flowers. Both headphones are phenomenal sounding yet the R10 is art.

I haven't heard either, but style-wise I agree. I just wish that Senn could've designed the hd-800 with a little more asthetic class if they wanted $1400 for a pair.

 

[parhelictriangle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the HD800 is the new acid-washed jeans, then the Sony R10 is the Japanese equivalent of hand-made shuttle loomed jeans made with dye from real indigo flowers. Both headphones are phenomenal sounding yet the R10 is art.

Nothing looks sillier on a human head than an R10. As "art" they're a waste of a few keyaki groves.