[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ask you to please not be rude. This is a public forum and we must conduct ourselves accordingly. If you continue to make personal attacks, I shall notify the forum moderators. Thank you. This thread is about design. It might be an issue you care about or not, but design is everywhere and there is good and poor design. I have studied industrial design at Art Center College of Design in Pasadena. It is an issue I truly care about and I don't believe that the HD800 passes muster. You may disagree which is fine but please address your comments to the issue at hand. I live in New York City and have access to every headphone ever made. I have been attending every high-end audio show in New York for the last 15 years and I also have access to many brilliant audiophile businesses. This thread is not an attack on Sennheiser. It is a thoughtful and considered criticism of the Sennheiser HD800. You do not know which headphones I own and which I do not. There is no reason for me to have to justify myself here, but I do own the Sennheiser IE8 and I think that they are excellent universal IEM's.

OK, here we go..... you just said rude.

Notify moderators if you want (wait, immtbiker is reading this. No need of report!

) But no offense, I found this thread pretty funny.

As I said quite a long time ago, I said I hate that silver color of HD800 and wished at least plastic part was non-glossly black. That point we probably both agree.

I am perfectly fine with design dispute since everyone's taste is different. I think the best design ever is Koss A250

. But most people would disagree.

All I see the whole reason of existance of this thread is that HD800 is made of plastic. Ironically, there isn't much of design talk in thread, but so called "cheapy" plastic talks are over the top. I mean, yeah. Like those used in cheap "made in China" toys that break aparts after three days of usage.

And here is something. There are plenty of people keep telling you why Sennheiser decided to choose this special polymer -whoops sorry, cheap plastic- instead of -ultra expensive(???)- metal, and you decided to ignore pretty much everything we've been talking to.


1. Sennheiser's engineers SAID that they tested with magnesium and the result was worse than using the plastic.

2. Tyll, as an engineer he explained how materials work (and he even recommended some good books for better knowledge.)

3. Other memebers here with some knowledge also explained that why wood is actually bad choice for sound reproduction.

4. They also explained that some polymers are not so cheapy as many think (can be very expensive.)

5. Finally, most of members who finally obtain HD800 told that the build quality is one of best. Not to mention one of the most comfortable.

Now, all you have made so far is that "OMG SA5000 are better looking and better build quality than HD800 because they used metal on the body", after all of explanations. Now as a previous owner of SA5000 and a current owner of HD800, I told you:

1. While the design of SA5000 is fantastic, the build quality is not as good as you think, suffering problems with cable connection and weak housing-headband part (not to mention they used very annoying pleather/leather pads instead of smooth fiber like Beyer, AKG and Sennheiser open air cans) Well, at least SA5000 are bit better than those fragile Denon headphones which those beautiful wood cups fall apart.

2. HD800 look may bad in picture, but the headphones themselves are fine when seen in person (not just by me, but mentioned by many HD800 owners as well.)

Now. No. I am not a Sennheiser fanboy. As you see, I have bunch of Gradoes as well, and I keep buying something new that better than my current best can (and the best can so far was AKG K701 for a long time.) But, what I wanted to point out is that you merely decided to keep ignoring those seven points above and block your ears.

And you just do not answer to questions from someone. I asked, "Did you actually see the headphones in person?" I am still waiting for an answer.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by parhelictriangle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing looks sillier on a human head than an R10. As "art" they're a waste of a few keyaki groves.

I agree with you that the R10 does look a bit silly on the head. It just shows that God has a sense of humor.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnmnkh /img/forum/go_quote.gif And you just do not answer to questions from someone. I asked, "Did you actually see the headphones in person?" I am still waiting for an answer.

As far I know, this is the first time you've asked me this question. Up until this point you have assumed that I have not seen them. Yes, I have seen them in person. I have felt them, handled them, and listened to them. Also, amongst all the posts in this thread, myself and others have commented about the design of this headphone in detail.

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by parhelictriangle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nothing looks sillier on a human head than an R10. As "art" they're a waste of a few keyaki groves.

Nothing would look better on my head than an R-10 except (fill in name of your favorite supermodel here).

My experience with them is now about 8 years ago, but I have no hesitation in calling them the all-time classic, sonically, construction-wise, in terms of beauty. IMHO, beyond reproach...

If you are ever able and inclined to break the bank, here's where to do it.

 

[jherbert]

I am not sure if this already came up here, but AKG used "plastic" in their famous K1000, too. For a reason, of course. Here is what the manual says:

"The requirements ol minimum weight and maxium durability called for a rarjcaily new headband and earcup design. Following trials with die-cast titarium (it proved impossible to make the walls as thin as required) and beryllium (unsuitable because ot toxicity) the optimum solution was found to be plastic matrix with a 50% fiber content. Although very light, this material provides the extremely high strength required lor the magnet ring bearing and all other case parts."

Now, they did not paint it. But they used it for a reason. Go figure.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Thank you for bringing this up. Your comments are a nice juxtaposition to this thread. I think this is the first post on this thread about the K1000 and its use of plastic. As much as I dislike the use of plastic in headphones, I do believe that K1000 is another masterpiece of headphone design. The use of plastic in the K1000 is judicious and the driver enclosures are made out of thick metal mesh wire. It is a headphone that is a bit quirky for some, an ugly duckling to others, and yet beautiful to many more. The materials on this headphone are not simulating other materials and they are also not spray-painted silver (the color is molded). Also the design is very severe yet simple; form follows function.

 

[Mr.Sneis]

So who wants to start one-offiing customized hd800's

Custom paint/wood/machining anyone?

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif If the HD800 is the new acid-washed jeans, then the Sony R10 is the Japanese equivalent of hand-made shuttle loomed jeans made with dye from fermented indigo leaves. Both headphones are phenomenal sounding yet the R10 is art.

The HD800 is more sturdy than the R10. Pictures can be deceiving. Yes, the R-10 is nice and I would love to have one but it looks cheaper in person than it does in pictures. It's still beautiful, and I think the HD800 looks very nice too and I am a graphic designer.

Just because you go to art school you are not the be all and end all judge of design. Personally, I think the SA5000 is as ugly as a midget with a nipple on his forehead but you are allowed to have your opinion just as I am allowed to have mine. That's why there is not only one designer in this world. If there were, your environment would sure be a boring place to look at. (Nature is the best designer and more people need to take lessons from it. And that's my opinion.)

I'll give you a perfect example. I was looking at this design company's website that specializes in marketing for dentistry (because that is what my company is trying to go after right now). I looked at the website they designed and all of them contained the exact same typeface. I felt like writing them a letter telling them that only an inexperienced designer/firm would do something like that. But regardless of my opinion, they are obviously making money at what they do because they had many websites in their portfolio.

The materials used in the HD800 contribute to it's outstanding sound quality. The way it is synergizing with my system now is unlike anything I've heard, including two very nice R-10 rigs. And I guarantee you that if you heard it on a good system, your negativity towards its exterior would change. That's akin to seeing someone on TV that you think is ugly and snobbish. But one day you meet them in person and have a chat with them and realize they are much nicer than you prejudged. When you have better feelings about someone and come to realize their true character, their looks aren't so important anymore.

 

[paulb09]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD800 is more sturdy than the R10. Pictures can be deceiving. Yes, the R-10 is nice and I would love to have one but it looks cheaper in person than it does in pictures. It's still beautiful, and I think the HD800 looks very nice too and I am a graphic designer.

I've not seen one, and I don't think it looks extra special from the pictures. The simple colours and design (apart from the ear cups, of course) make it look like a standard headphone. It by no means looks cheap, but somehow it doesn't ring out "high end headphone" to me, except the ear cups, which do show it's of a different design to many headphones.

Then again, it's not like STAX models or the K1000 etc. really ring out "high end headphone" to me either. If you showed me lots headphone pictures without me knowing anything about headphones, I may well even land cheaper headphones in the higher end department based on looks

As it seems though, this topic is slowly boiling down simply to some thinking that the metallic-like paint on the HD800 is just trying to fake its appearance. I can understand how they may think that. Personally I'm not offended by the look or design of the HD800. It looks more modern than some "high end headphones", and as such I think Sennheiser decided to give it a finish that tries to make it look more modern too, for better or for worse.

 

[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far I know, this is the first time you've asked me this question. Up until this point you have assumed that I have not seen them. Yes, I have seen them in person. I have felt them, handled them, and listened to them. Also, amongst all the posts in this thread, myself and others have commented about the design of this headphone in detail.

You should read posts more carefully.

Oh well then, this is personal preference and as I said, I have no problem disagreeing with design issues as well.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhunternyc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I ask you to please not be rude. This is a public forum and we must conduct ourselves accordingly. If you continue to make personal attacks, I shall notify the forum moderators.

I don't really feel that what wnmnkh said was rude. He stated his opinion in a clear non-aggressive approach.

Now if you want to talk about rude:

Quote:

Originally Posted by UezeU /img/forum/go_quote.gif By the way, you are an idiot and nobody will ever love you. (I'll be a little more direct with my personal attacks)

This comment might have been made to make a point, but it is a direct attack which cannot be misconstrued.

I really feel that anyone who has not spent time with the 800, R-10, or the SA5000, have no place in discussing build quality or sonics.

If I were to drop my R-10's, serious cup damage would occur and someone put my pair down, too hard on a table at a meet, and broke one of the plastic spacers on the cup pivot, and I cannot find an OEM or equivalent replacement. The cup is now really loose without the .05¢ plastic (yes, I said plastic) spacer.
If someone were to drop the 800's on the floor or bang it on a table, I don't believe that this would cause any serious damage in comparison to the R-10's.

 

[decay]

Considering the demographic of high-end headphones, which consists mainly audiophiles
and musicians, the designs that give the best sound will triumph above all others. Comfort
comes afterward, as people shelling out 14 grand will want to wear these for a long long
time, and so durability is the next factor. Given what Sennheiser stated is true, as long
as those "plastics" don't feel damaged after 5 years of common day use I see the discussion
on material is moot to say the least.

The appearance of HD800 should be the last thing they consider, and to me the silver finish
evokes feeling of steel, heavy construction (I could almost see the casing as some sort of
bare-boned stadium), and VERY German. The minimalistic/futuristic look only reinforces that
sensation of seeing technology at its forefront, it might not be awe inspiring but by no way "ugly".

R10, as an example you gave, is aiming for the opposite feeling, a sense of nature, of
time-honed sound. The casing, as a result of design for sound, give a strong oriental vibe;
that subtlety, a sense of harmony clearly mark this as a work of craftsmanship.
The HD800, on the other hand, looks assembled(NOT a bad thing). To compare these
2 headphones by their appearance alone is absurd without giving any sort of criteria:
beauty is in the eyes of its beholder, but no you cannot have my eyes!

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif R10, as an example you gave, is aiming for the opposite feeling, a sense of nature, of time-honed sound. The casing, as a result of design for sound, give a strong oriental vibe;

Using "nature"-al also includes the killing of sheep to make the earpads, and chopping down trees to make the cups.

Leona plastic was used without any harm coming to the famous Leona plants, except for the birds that might be killed while flying over the exhaust in the plastic factory.

 

[wnmnkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif Using "nature"-al also includes the killing of sheep to make the earpads, and chopping down trees to make the cups. Leona plastic was used without any harm coming to the famous Leona plants, except for the birds that might be killed while flying over the exhaust in the plastic factory.

I think eventual ecofoot size of R10 and HD800 would be about same anyway. Since plastic is usually made from oil and there's some global warming and plants using a lot of energy to create the plastic...

But livestock such as sheep, cows and others take quite a large amount of resources as well.

 

[haloxt]

Try to paint it a better color and I'll take you seriously.