[FLTWS]

"Another thing to consider is that a lot of times cable upgrades come with a downgrade in ergonomics, again IMO -- I'd rather have a reasonably slim, lightweight cable than a garden hose hanging from each ear cup. The stock cable is hard to beat from an ergonomics standpoint."

 
A very good point!

 

[PLUSSOUND]

 
Another thing to consider is that a lot of times cable upgrades come with a downgrade in ergonomics, again IMO -- I'd rather have a reasonably slim, lightweight cable than a garden hose hanging from each ear cup. The stock cable is hard to beat from an ergonomics standpoint.

 
This is one aspect we have been looking into as many prefer ergonomics improvements over sound. As a result, we just released a new wire that is 15% smaller than what we usually offer and more flexible.

 

[AutumnCrown]

So a few short, amateurish impressions comparing the S to the HD800 which I only briefly auditioned, and my trusty 400i. I'm listening straight out of a iFi micro IDSD, from my windows desktop.
 
The overall tonality of the S is significantly warmer, especially in the midrange area. The treble actually doesn't seem much warmer, just more accurate. The treble taming takes away from a certain perception of detail that smacks you in the face with the HD800, however, I don't think it's actually missing, just a bit more natural and blended. There is significantly less "air" which I actually found borderline excessive in the original.  It is still closer to to the HD800 than the 400i in tonality, but it's not far from halfway between them. When I first got the HD800 I thought I would keep both it and the 400i, but now that I have the S there doesn't seem to be much point in keeping both.
 
As someone who loved the bass of the original, I think I find the S to be a bit too warm in this area, though since i don't have the two side by side, it's hard to be sure that I'm not just imagining it. There was something wonderfully dry and controlled about the original bass. The rest of the tonality is definitely an improvement, but the bass seems a bit less true... again could be imagining it, it's not a large difference.
 
All in all, coming out of my idsd micro, it's not even close: the S is head and shoulders more pleasant and accurate sounding to me.
 
By the way if anyone is looking for a good track to test bass coloration, I recommend "Let's go away for a while" by The Beach Boys.  About 1 minute in there is a good, loud, deep bass sound. I wouldn't be surprised if the HD800/S differences could be heard clearly with an AB test of it.

 

[Arniesb]

So a few short, amateurish impressions comparing the S to the HD800 which I only briefly auditioned, and my trusty 400i. I'm listening straight out of a iFi micro IDSD, from my windows desktop.

The overall tonality of the S is significantly warmer, specially in the midrange area. The treble actually doesn't seem much warmer, just more accurate. The treble taming takes away from a certain perception of detail that smacks you in the face with the HD800, however, I don't think it's actually missing, just a bit more natural and blended. There is significantly less "air" which I actually found borderline excessive in the original.  It is still closer to to the HD800 than the 400i in tonality, but it's not far from halfway between them. When I first got the HD800 I thought I would keep both it and the 400i, but now that I have the S there doesn't seem to be much point in keeping both.

As someone who loved the bass of the original, I think I find the S to be a bit too warm in this area, though since i don't have the two side by side, it's hard to be sure that I'm not just imagining it. There was something wonderfully dry and controlled about the original bass. The rest of the tonality is definitely an improvement, but the bass seems a bit less true... again could be imagining it, it's not a large difference.

All in all, coming out of my idsd micro, it's not even close: the S is head and shoulders more pleasant and accurate sounding to me.

By the way if anyone is looking for a good track to test bass coloration, I recommend "Let's go away for a while" by The Beach Boys.  About 1 minute in there is a good, loud, deep bass sound. I wouldn't be surprised if the HD800/S differences could be heard clearly with an AB test of it.

Higher treble energy always improve bass in every possible way! Clarity of bass, Speed, tightness.Thats why almost every Beyerdynamic headphone have great quality bass... Thats why DT880 blow away HD600 in terms of bass quality! I was messing with eq tuning my HD650. Upping highs, eq down mids definitely improved speed, clarity of bass, depth and so on.

 

[AutumnCrown]

Higher treble energy always improve bass in every possible way! Clarity of bass, Speed, tightness.Thats why almost every Beyerdynamic headphone have great quality bass... Thats why DT880 blow away HD600 in terms of bass quality! I was messing with eq tuning my HD650. Upping highs, eq down mids definitely improved speed, clarity of bass, depth and so on.

Maybe the higher treble energy of the original also contributes to the impression of tight bass. But the treble itself seems so perfect on the S... maybe still a tad bright if anything. I really don't mind the bass on the S, it seems just a bit colored is all. The bass of my 400i seems a bit more controlled, even though it's probably not as finely textured, and by the numbers, it is.

 

[AutumnCrown]

I am curious about this experience of bass warming and whether or not it is due to distortion or just increased amount. I don't understand whether I could possibly be hearing distortion due to the volume at which I listen, which I think doesn't often go above the low to mid seventies db range. According to Tyll's data, such as this:
 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800Ssn01070.pdf
 
...it doesn't seem likely that I am hearing what must be under 1% distortion at the very lowest hz, though maybe bass distortion is audible at these levels?

 

[whatisit]

I've seen a huge assortment of modifications available for the HD800 cans, all the comparisons between HD800 and HD800S, and the mention by Tyll and others about the bass distortions on the second harmonic.  However, I have not been having any luck coming across mods for the HD800S, perhaps to address the harmonic distortion (if it is even possible).  Have I simply missed these mods or attempts to change/fix the harmonic distortion?  Or has it been left largely untapped so far?  If no one has really done it (or attempted to), I was wondering why?

 

[sheldaze]

  I've seen a huge assortment of modifications available for the HD800 cans, all the comparisons between HD800 and HD800S, and the mention by Tyll and others about the bass distortions on the second harmonic.  However, I have not been having any luck coming across mods for the HD800S, perhaps to address the harmonic distortion (if it is even possible).  Have I simply missed these mods or attempts to change/fix the harmonic distortion?  Or has it been left largely untapped so far?  If no one has really done it (or attempted to), I was wondering why?

It is my understanding that the harmonic distortion is the source of the perceived added bass. That is, to take it away, you lose one of the two benefits of the HD800S. Thus no one has attempted to remove it.
 
The suggestion is to use equalization with the original HD800 to equalize the bass to a higher, more correct volume - or to buy the new HD800S and accept both the distortion and bass as-is. If you were to buy the new HD800S and equalize the bass, it becomes more obvious that the bass is distorted. If you were to buy the new HD800S and remove the distortion, you have almost removed all the benefit of the new headphone.
 
This is what I've read, though I do plan to experiment with HD800, both equalization and treble peak, in the next few weeks. I'll post back if I learn more via my own experimentation.

 

[Thenazgul]

  It is my understanding that the harmonic distortion is the source of the perceived added bass. That is, to take it away, you lose one of the two benefits of the HD800S. Thus no one has attempted to remove it.
 
The suggestion is to use equalization with the original HD800 to equalize the bass to a higher, more correct volume - or to buy the new HD800S and accept both the distortion and bass as-is. If you were to buy the new HD800S and equalize the bass, it becomes more obvious that the bass is distorted. If you were to buy the new HD800S and remove the distortion, you have almost removed all the benefit of the new headphone.
 
This is what I've read, though I do plan to experiment with HD800, both equalization and treble peak, in the next few weeks. I'll post back if I learn more via my own experimentation.

The subbass-distortion isn't really a big deal. I barely notice it. It is not that obvious as the high-peak issue on the regular hd800. Soon I am ordering my DHC-Compliment-4 cable. It might have some effect on it.

 

[sheldaze]

  The subbass-distortion isn't really a big deal. I barely notice it. It is not that obvious as the high-peak issue on the regular hd800. Soon I am ordering my DHC-Compliment-4 cable. It might have some effect on it.

I agree in that is probably the biggest reason no one has sought to address the "issue".
I like the HD800S. I'm still debating keeping the HD800.

 

[vc1187]

  I agree in that is probably the biggest reason no one has sought to address the "issue".
I like the HD800S. I'm still debating keeping the HD800.

Based on your gear, which do you personally prefer more with what you'd consider to be their best setup, the HEK or the HD800S?

 

[sheldaze]

  Based on your gear, which do you personally prefer more with what you'd consider to be their best setup, the HEK or the HD800S?

Still a changing topic. I put the HD800S in my signature, though I would probably listen to HEK. Simply, when ranking the headphones, there's something to the equation when you factor in fatigue. And the HD800S, particularly when played at high volume, still causes me to fatigue.
 
Ask me a week ago, I would have said HEK and MicroZOTL2 - phenomenal sound that I can listen to for hours, with zero fatigue.
Black Widow though is really a captivating listen on HD800S.

 

[Rob80b]

  It is my understanding that the harmonic distortion is the source of the perceived added bass.

Apparently, but regardless as to how Sennheiser increased the perceived fuller base over the original 800s, the base still does not go that low, relatively speaking.
I was listening to Kraftwerk’s  “The Mix” last night on my stereo, a pair of Dynaudio Special 25s augmented with a Velodyne DD12, the system has been calibrated and fairly flat,

 
and although I tried matching HD800S to the overall volume, switching back and forth the phones just sounded so much thinner (interestingly the HD700s less so), especially with regards to base.
Overall headphones just cannot not match the visceral impact and still maintain clarity and definition of a full range stereo system, although some get close the HD800S is not one of them… my LCD2.2s fair slightly better, but regardless… after a few minutes my ears do adjust to the output of the 800S and I’m very happy with them even with of the lack of sub base…definitely IMHO the best phones I’ve had the pleasure of owning.

 

[sheldaze]

  Apparently, but regardless as to how Sennheiser increased the perceived fuller base over the original 800s, the base still does not go that low, relatively speaking.
I was listening to Kraftwerk’s  “The Mix” last night on my stereo, a pair of Dynaudio Special 25s augmented with a Velodyne DD12, the system has been calibrated and fairly flat,

 
and although I tried matching HD800S to the overall volume, switching back and forth the phones just sounded so much thinner (interestingly the HD700s less so), especially with regards to base.
Overall headphones just cannot not match the visceral impact and still maintain clarity and definition of a full range stereo system, although some get close the HD800S is not one of them… my LCD2.2s fair slightly better, but regardless… after a few minutes my ears do adjust to the output of the 800S and I’m very happy with them even with of the lack of sub base…definitely IMHO the best phones I’ve had the pleasure of owning.

I use the same sub

 
And I agree. That's why I think it's a personal choice. Either listen to the still slightly thin HD800S, or try to equalize the HD800 (after also fixing the treble peak). I'm going to try the second path too, but am truly thankful to Sennheiser for providing an option in the HD800S.

 

[Rob80b]

  I use the same sub

 
And I agree. That's why I think it's a personal choice. Either listen to the still slightly thin HD800S, or try to equalize the HD800 (after also fixing the treble peak). I'm going to try the second path too, but am truly thankful to Sennheiser for providing an option in the HD800S.

Cool

 
anyway...I do not have any means to equalize the sound of the headphones with my setup so I could not experiment with my original 800s in that fashion, but what I can say is that the new "S"s keep me captivated with the music much longer than the originals ever could, IMHO the music just sounds more organic/natural sounding and therefore all that more rewarding....